The only way that we'll make any progress in limiting abortions is to teach and practice safe sex. ITA, about condom's, hell, double up, condoms and the pill, it's twice as much protection. Ultimately, preventing pregnancy is the way to go. But giving women a say in things if she ends up needing one, isn't wrong.

Totally agree. Would a man want something living inside of him? Changing his life?

Then wear a freaking condom!

They aren't 100%.

I'm pro choice, but if I wasn't gay, I would find it very hard to forgive someone for aborting my child. I am not religious, but you better get me involved in the decision. The baby/zygote is half the father. But the ultimate decision stays with the mother.

Even though I wouldn't be able to live in luxury and it would totally uproot my lifestyle and job, if I suddenly had the responsibility of having a baby son or daughter, I would be so gosh darn happy that it was even possible and welcome him/her into my life.

I'm not religious. I guess I'm just gay and wish I could share in the miracle.

They aren't 100%.

I'm pro choice, but if I wasn't gay, I would find it very hard to forgive someone for aborting my child. I am not religious, but you better get me involved in the decision. The baby/zygote is half the father. But the ultimate decision stays with the mother.

Even though I wouldn't be able to live in luxury and it would totally uproot my lifestyle and job, if I suddenly had the responsibility of having a baby son or daughter, I would be so gosh darn happy that it was even possible and welcome him/her into my life.

I totally agree with you on this. I definitely think that the father should be involved, it's just, as you pointed out, that the woman has the ultimate decision.

I'm not understanding who's saying not to have safe sex?

And for the record, people do get pregnant even using condoms. My mom got pregnant TWICE on the pill. So nothing is 100%. But safe sex is always the best method to prevent the abortion debate in the first place. One of the most informative places I ever went concerning sex, was Planned Parenthood. You even say "abstenience" in the building, and they'll laugh at you. LOL The problem isn't abortion, it's sending our youth out into the world uneducated and naive about sex. If we take the taboo off sex, stop stigmatizing it as something bad, and start teaching how to have it safely (because they are doing it) then we might finally make strides to minimzing abortion to the level where it doesn't have to be legal to be safe.

No sex education says no safe sex.

And for the record, people do get pregnant even using condoms. My mom got pregnant TWICE on the pill.

And most other women who take the the pill do not get pregnant... but by all means, let's base our findings on your mother...

Ooops! Sorry Kylie, I just read the rest of your post and I agree 100% Thank you!

But I still think the str8 men get off easy

My feeling is if a woman can decide to terminate a pregnancy without the fathers approval, then a father should not be forced to pay for a child he did not want in the first place.

Well the father would not pay for it if the baby is not born....unless you are talking about the father paying for the cost to have an abortion.

As for McCain at one point I did not mind him but I lost all respect for him when he sucked up to Bush in 2004 after the illustrious president trashed him and his candidacy in 2000 and to me he just plays politics and only cares about himself. This news of him wishing Roe v. Wade to be overturned well that is something I would expect of him since I have a friend in Arizona who wrote to him about abortion and he replied back pretty much calling her a murderer for being pro choice. I never had any plans to vote for him in 2008 and now I definitely will not if he wishes to overturn a legal precedent. And he is also forgetting that he cannot overturn the decision it has to be up to the United States Supreme Court and even though the majority are Republican, they are not about to alter the language in Roe v. Wade since even they know it is legally right to give woman equal protection and control over their body and to not have the government what they can and cannot do with their body. I may disagree in some instances with a woman who decides to terminate but I am not going to prevent her from casting her choice it is her right just as it is a man's right to get a vastectomy to not father anymore children...would men like it if they made a vastectomy illegal to continue the pro life agenda? It's the same as limiting a woman from the right to choice. And again I disagree with this notion that you are pro abortion I don't know of anyone who is like that and it is about choice, not killing.

They aren't 100%.

I'm pro choice, but if I wasn't gay, I would find it very hard to forgive someone for aborting my child. I am not religious, but you better get me involved in the decision. The baby/zygote is half the father. But the ultimate decision stays with the mother.

Even though I wouldn't be able to live in luxury and it would totally uproot my lifestyle and job, if I suddenly had the responsibility of having a baby son or daughter, I would be so gosh darn happy that it was even possible and welcome him/her into my life.

I'm not religious. I guess I'm just gay and wish I could share in the miracle.

Of course they're not 100% but they are pretty damned close. When you say that, you put the whole onus on the woman again.

SEX EDUCATION! MEN WEAR CONDOMS UNTIL THEY CAN SUPPORT A CHILD!

"Poor me! I Foooked a slut! She said she was on the pill!" - I've heard that so many times - from College Friends!

Of course they're not 100% but they are pretty damned close. When you say that, you put the whole onus on the woman again.

SEX EDUCATION! MEN WEAR CONDOMS UNTIL THEY CAN SUPPORT A CHILD!

"Poor me! I Foooked a slut! She said she was on the pill!" - I've heard that so many times - from College Friends!

Very true. And on the same foot, I've heard people say " Well, it's her fault, she got pregnant" or my favorite "If she wasn't trying to get pregnant, then why didn't she make sure that the sex was safe?" Please. Use a [!@#$%^&*] condom. Girls get on the pill, the patch, take the shot, something. And then this whole abortion debate might finally start resovle itself. The sooner we stop letting religion dictate this countries (America) views on sex, the sooner we can start to make this counrty a better, safer place for our youth, who are having sex.

Edited February 20, 200718 yr by Kylie

Of course they're not 100% but they are pretty damned close. When you say that, you put the whole onus on the woman again.

SEX EDUCATION! MEN WEAR CONDOMS UNTIL THEY CAN SUPPORT A CHILD!

"Poor me! I Foooked a slut! She said she was on the pill!" - I've heard that so many times - from College Friends!

Hey hey hey. My entire thing was about how I would support a child no matter what. I was just pointing out that condoms aren't 100%.

It's one matter if someone does not agree with abortion but I'm so sick of bastards like him deciding for everyone! McCain will never know what it is like to be a woman and faced the struggles of a pregnancy. Granted, men should have a say in the decision if it is their child, but ultimately it is a woman's body and therefore her choice. At one point, I considered him as someone I could vote for despite my Democratic allegiance. Never. I'll leave this country before I have to subject myself to the will of neo-conservatists who think their interpretation of "God said so" is gospel.

Sorry, but I'm pro-life and I won't tolerate being called a "bastard" for wanting to decide everyone's fertility issues.

You should be glad we WANT the decision to stick for everyone. That's the only way it's fair in the sense that we're not hypocrites.

I've had this debate with too many pro-choicers and they still don't get it: if someone truly believes that destroying a fetus is playing "God" with another's life or pointless or unjustified killing, it would MAKE NO sense for them not to fight for that child's right to life. It would be utterly hypocritical for a pro-lifer to say, "I'm pro-life, but I understand some people want abortions and don't give a damn about fetuses or believe the woman's 'right' to control her fertility is just ground to have abortion clinics suck the child, limb from limb -- AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT."

That's the one argument I don't get, because it makes no sense. Say what you will about pro-lifers, but they would be hypocrites if they didn't want to "decide for everyone." Actually, if pro-lifers used that "I don't like abortion but I understand others feel differently" stance, they wouldn't really be pro-life would they? No, they'd be pro-choice.

I really don't want to get into a political debate here, but this is just one more reason for me to like McCain. In my opinion, the only time abortion should be legal is if the woman has been raped. Otherwise, it's my opinion that if you believe you're responsible enough to have sex, then you should be responsible for the consequences. Again, that's just my opinion.

I agree that this makes McCain looks better to me, too. I was iffy about him.

And Guiliani? FORGETABOUTIT. We all know what he thinks! Good luck getting the nomation, Gules!

I think if it is a person's body, that person should make the decisions regarding their body. Period.

I would agree -- if there weren't actually two or more bodies involved, something Planned Parenthood and Gloria Steinem would like us to forget, or overlook.

And what makes you more right, and more qualified to, make a decision about me, my life, and my baby, then I am? Why do you know better then I do, what is right for me?

I'm not even sure I understand what you're saying. No one here has said anything about "God" or playing God. Or even knowing what right for someone else. That's a religious arguement, and Roe has nothing to do with religion, nor should it.

You don't like it, you think it's wrong, more power to you. And for me, I wouldn't do it. But I think it's very, very, very wrong, to believe that I have that right over someone else.

And a memo, hardly any abortions, unless they're second/third term are done like that, and 9 x' 10 those abotions are illegal anyway. You do know they can do it with drugs? Makes an abortion no harder then a miscarriage, and sometimes doesn't even require a hospital stay or visit. That's old school, pro-life mantra, the limb from limb thing. It was a method, but is hardly practiced anymore.

Edited February 20, 200718 yr by Kylie

Just another man deciding what women should do with their bodies.

Abortion is not for me and I lose total respect for people who use it as a method of birth control, but it's not my desicion to make for anyone else. And I can't imagine us going back to those awful black-market dirty backroom abortions (I have a highly personal aversion to this)

I guess that's what I'll never get. If more people had respect for human life, there would be fewer of these so-called backroom and back alley abortions. Because no one really NEEDS an abortion. That can be argued, perhaps in rape or incest instances (though I'd disagree), but when it comes to abortion-on-demand, which Planned Parenthood and those extreme feminists do support, it's just uncalled for. And it makes abortion a selfish way to not face consequences. Abortion has become a birth control, and to those who deny that, how can you, when pro-choicers always wave the flag of controlling fertility and having abortion-on-demand. They would never want it limited to rape or incest, which would ethically be more justifiable; no, they would just want across-the-board "rights."

And it's not just a man deciding what women should do. Not just men are pro-life. Millions of women are too. So that argument just never flies with me. It's just buzz words the left use to try to rally women and make them think this an issue that just affects them. And to anyone who says that's true, I say I disagree, since we are ALL former fetuses, and I'm sure we all really like that we got to live. This is not a religious issue; it's a human rights issue. The right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Hey hey hey. My entire thing was about how I would support a child no matter what. I was just pointing out that condoms aren't 100%.

Condoms are better than NOTHING, they've worked for centuries, and they work better than trusting THAT SLUT who thinks welfare is a windfall.

Pompous bastard.

A woman's body is HERS to do to it what SHE CHOOSES.

No one has a right to take that personal freedom away.

Yes, a woman's body is hers...but then again, there are TWO bodies here, aren't there?

That personal freedom has only been around since 1973, and it would be the best thing this country ever did if it got overturned.

The fact that Scott Clifton can say something like "I think it's wonderful that women can have abortions," knowing what abortion is (presumably) and how undignified and literally inhumane it is, just baffles me.