Roman

Sexual harassment charges now being leveled against Cain. No response came until late this past evening. Four women charge him with SR from 20 years ago. Signed confidentiality agreements and took money to stay quite.

The stuff coming out of these candidates' mouths really has me saying....how do you honestly think that you will win a general election with the truly horrible things you have said? Romney has lied so much he can't remember what flip-flops go to what, Newt is trying to make himself the Elder Statesman, with all the garbage he has done, Bachmann's own TP is demanding she drop out (after her entire crew in NH walked out on her), then there's Cain....my goodness. Someone needs to tell him to just sell his books and then go away. I now cannot help but LMAO every single day at this freak show. LOL!

Be who you are. But also, when myself or Brian or anyone else makes a comment that you might not agree with, please, don't get so defensive. In your response to me, that is what it seemed like, but Brian reaffirmed they same thing that I was saying, and also he was consistent with what he said to you. We are all trying to have a civil, yet passionate discussion on the politics of the day. If this is going to regress into the shouting matches we had 3 years ago...that truly would be a shame.

Oh, Max, I'll be the judge of what's intellectually honest and what are blatant lies. Don't mean to offend, but that statement did come off as rather arrogant to me. JMO.

So, IYO, because MSNBC is marketed to 'liberals', they should be held to a different standard than the other two? And, once again, Max, you are painting everyone with a truly wide brush here. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and others have called themselves entertainers, not journalists, and yet, the ones you mentioned only come from Hollywood. If they are Americans, do they not have the same rights and privileges that we all have under our Constitution? I'm trying to be fair here, but I'm starting to see a little bit of what Brian is talking about.

Well, let's see. My problem with some of these remarks is that, I don't know many conservatives. I just know the ones I have seen or heard on television or the radio, and those I have read in print. I will try not paint a whole group of people by what a small group of those same people say and do. To myself, that is, arrogant presumption. As far as Buffet, one, do you know beyond a doubt that he doesn't make charitable contributions, Max? he has made these in private. Because he does not advertise these contributions does not mean he doesn't make them, yes? As far as MSNBC, there are two other CNNs who either have corporate owners or have international interests who have a big monetary stake in their companies (FOX NEWS). The same people who are railed against on the networks own a chunk of RM stock in News Corp. I will always have deep difficulty in any political party that says one one hand, "we want small government" and on the other, creates legislation that will do nothing more than curtail the rights of many Americans. We have a CNM who helped intensify the war beat ten years ago, who then flipped and said it was wrong to invade Iraq without any culpability on their part. That is where we as a people step in. We are the bosses. We are the ones charged with keeping our government and the Forth Estate honest and above board. Maybe if we found out what and who these people truly represent, and stop with the broad paintbrush (of which I have used myself), we can truly fix many of the problems we ave.

There's something behind that Ohio thing. That just doesn't sound right. Was it suicide or was he murdered? And was it him who let those animals out? As for today's killing in Libya....what's goes around comes around.

Well, Brian, I'm not taking up for anyone, because there are people in this thread and on this board who I KNOW can speak for themselves. LOL But, one thing I learned and have tried to apply is that politicians are people just like us. Flawed, yes Lord. But I personally can't paint everyone of them with a broad brush. John Huntsmann is a man that, even though I don't agree with all his views (and no one will always agree with anyone else 100% of the time) he is what feel the Party needs to regain a foothold in politics. A moderate voice whose willing to call out he own party. He gets no play from the CNM and, because his views maybe are more to the center than those running for POTUS, he seems like some outsider who could never do a good job helping the American people. I find myself a center-left person in my political ideas, but I now don't just say "all liberals" or "all conservatives" because that would be wrong. I never had and will not vote for any of these candidates running, because there isn't one thing any of them have said that even remotely reflects my POV. All politicians pander, but to just say anything and hope something sticks is not a person who I want in the big chair with their finger on the button. As a vox populi, we all need to hold all elected officials accountable for any and everything, regardless of if we agree with then or not. JMO. I feel once a person can truly do that, I will listen to what they have to say. And......I will also listen if they keep the personal attacks out of the discussion, which is what I did myself and which I saw certain members do 3 years ago. I this thread...it may not help you make your point. Just saying.

And Max, those that you named are, IMO, dong somewhat the very same thing as FN, who openly helped and praised the TP, not to mention holding events for them, and defending their actions. This is the right of every American to civil disobedience. The very same things were said about of another group who protested for fair treatment and justice.... The Civil Rights Movement. But, you did admit FN stinks to high heaven. I applaud you for that.

I know. I'm just making the point that one side can't be called out while the other side is left unchecked. Plus, MSNBC didn't start covering OWS until three to four weeks later. They had started in mid-Sept., and the only coverage I saw was on HuffPo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/obama-media-coverage-pew_n_1016121.html

Now max, let's call it down the middle. Fox actively promoted the Tea Party for the last year or so. Now, I'm trying to call this down the middle, but Max, if you're going to call out MSNBC, then be fair and call FN out as well. Now, you get on posters who you say are one-sided in their political views, but your statement about MSNBC seems rather one-sided considering you did not mention FN doing the very same thing. All I ask is let's be fair and call it down the middle. there is already enough of this division going on in American politics. All of them need to be held accountable, not just one side or the other.

IA 1,00%. To me, Congress is the problem. Always has been. They are like children who don't get their way and blame each other instead of themselves. The Democrats have no spine or backbone, and the Republicans have been hijacked by the Tea Party.

Well, IMO, all politicians take big money from Wall Street. The last POTUS did it as well. See, it's just not one side with me, and that seems to be the on-going speech. It's one side or the other. I feel that one side deserves the lion's share of the responsibility for where we all are at right now, but both parties are to blame. The TP crowd held rallies every day, stood on the steps of the Capital building yelling and screaming at members of Congress, using racial and homophobic epitaphs, and carrying guns to events. And American has the right under the Constitution to civil discourse and peaceful assembly. Not just any group who I or others happen to agree with. There are now some in the RP who are talking about their hygiene, calling them Marxists and socialists, and making out to be some type of anarchist group. Instead, they should be listening to these Americans and find out what they really want (even though they've been saying it since September). I am so happy and glad to see the majority party assemble and tell not only DC both the world that we are really sick and tired of members being sent to DC to line their own pockets and sell out the country at the expense of either being re-elected or to Big Fill-In-The-Blank. I just see none of the candidates for POTUS winning if they continue to run on social issues instead of economic issues. They need to stop saying "It's all Obama's fault" and come up with some solutions of their own that actually include getting people back to work, and maybe reversing NAFTA and returning many of these jobs back to the States (Clinton should have never signed that bill). But, if they want to keep talking about the POTUS in personal terms instead of what they will do, keep going. It's not enough to say you should vote against the other person...you have to give the people someone to vote for. They just don't get that. I do give you credit for calling out AP. Saved me the time in doing it.

Well, max, like I said, we will strongly see it differently. Yes i had a problem with Byrd's racist past, but I find myself having very serious problem with the bigotry of the Republican Party now. I've done my research, follow my politics every day, and they just don't make me comfortable to join that tent. Not at all. I defend and push the right for any gay American to marry or join our Armed Forces. I'm not asking who someone sleeps with or who they want to marry when it comes to defending our nation. I'm also waiting to see and hear where the RP's jobs' bill is. or, telling us some solution about getting the vast number of Americans back to work without including tax cuts for, everything, and cutting programs which they say are entitlements. Yes they are....they entitle people to survive. Do they need to be reformed? Hell yes. There are those who get benefits who don't need them at all. But many, many Americans do, and if we are still waiting on the Top 1% to create jobs (I would still like to know where they are), we are done for. I blame both parties, but I put more of the blame on Republicans more than Democrats. Here is a bill that not one Republican voted for even though many pieces of legislation that was in there they backed, until Obama said he was for it as well. Is defeating him more important than the future of our country?

Well, you and I will just see things very differently. I will not vote for any Republican candidate. The bigotry that most of them that I have seen to have is really sad. That's from Herman Cain, to Rick Perry and so forth. Also, i personally can't say that the percentage of racist Republicans is small. IMO, it's too large to consider anything else that comes from the Republicans that I have seen in the public eye. To add, the Democratic Party had a shift starting in the early 1950s with Harry Truman running for his second term. the Dixiecrats left the Party and joined the Republican Party after being Independents because Truman made a stance for civil rights (as he spoke of during a speech to the NAACP) and the Dixiecrats would have none of that. To also add, I am one Independent who has voted Democrat who had a problem with RB's racist past. I also seem to remember that he atoned for it in his later life and, judging by his voting record up until his death, seemed to me to have made strides in making changes in his life. To say that liberals had no problem....well, I don't purpose to know all liberals like I don't know all conservatives, so I will not say what any of they think or do. The GOP, IMO, has a very big problem right now in where they have taken the Party. A moderate voice is no longer welcomed in that party. John Huntsmann maybe the only Republican I would consider for the GOP ticket, but he has been shoved down so much by the MSM and his own party because of some of his moderate views, on top of going after his own party for some of the rhetoric that has been coming out the past years. These candidates and the Party in general needs to regain a much more moderate voice, if they have any chance of climbing out of the hole they've dug themselves into. I really hope they can, because with this US Congress we have now, we need more voices of moderation instead of what the nation has been getting. JMO.

Sounds like to me the majority class are sick of it and will not take it anymore.

Well, for me, Obama's presidency could have won or lost in the first 6 months. IA with not going after the Bush Admin for war crimes. All that would have done is bogged down the country in a needless back-and-forth, and would have made legislating impossible (even though I still feel Cheney should serve the rest of his life in prison). But, in trying to work with Republicans, he did serious damage to himself. I completely understand trying to work with both sides of Congress, but the people wanted to see him take charge, make the right decisions &, win or lose, come out on the side of the American people. he instead decided to make speeches, say one thing and then behind closed doors do another, and seem like he was going after one group of voters (Independents) than governing for the entire country. With that said, I still will vote for him. There is entirely too much baggage for any of the current candidates to change my mind, with the things that have been said and done by these people over the past 6-7 years or so, more or less. Rick Perry? No way. The voters in his own state can't stand him. Also, as with him, there is this class warfare that will win one if these candidates (most likely Romney) the nomination, but will be disastrous in the general election. they have turned off so many sections of our country that I say to them "How do you think you will get the votes of the people that you actively rail against in a general election?" The Republican Party really needs to find the middle ground again. Hell, there are some, if very few, Republicans that i would vote for. But the ultra-right wing has hijacked this party. Until that changes......I personally don't see it getting any better for that party.

Hi everybody! Just wanted to say what's up. And....I will discuss politics with anyone who wants to in a good natured manner. i see that is what's been happening. I hope you all are doing well. Have a good day.

Ted Kennedy dies. The end of Camelot. R.I.P., sir. Your job is done.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/11/cheney-told-cia-to-hide-p_n_230093.html Cheney Hid Torture Program From Congress.

Max, I was going to finally give you some credit, but then something ended up happening. This poster at a site I go to actually put it in good context: "If she can't handle criticism from bloggers, then how could she handle al-Qaeda? And conservatives like Greta should stop complaining about attacks on her and her family because they started the trend by holding her family out as public political props, and have never stopped. I'm not condoning the personal attacks in any way -- we avoided them at C&L and kept our criticism focused on her abilities (or lack thereof) and her public behavior as a candidate and a public official. It's up to you to decide how she's been treated. But conservatives are total hypocrites on this issue and the media allows them to get away with it. They've made their living out of smearing anyone on the left. The Clintons have been subjected to the lowest attacks possible. I haven't seen anyone write widely published books that calls her a lesbian, or have I missed that one? Or that she murdered someone like, oh...Vince Foster. On the September 19 and 20 broadcasts of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh resurrected his scurrilous suggestion that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) had then-deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster murdered while she was first lady. That's just the tip of the iceberg. And then we can talk about the scurrilous and wingnutty "birther" attacks on President Obama, but you get my point."

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/presi...-his-bully-pult

Thought you didn't talk politics.

http://mediamatters.org/clips/200905190022 Wonder how long it will take for someone on here to call him a Liberal?