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@Faulkner @chrisml @Taoboi Thanks for the article and for the debate about where Bravo goes from here. First, the article was good, though I did hesitate on one thing. Yes, we know Ramona flirted with a Rep congressman who hates feminism, but is that quite on a par with with what Stassi and Kristen did to Faith on VPR? Certain Bravolebrities have done racist and homophobic things for years and it's only now that Bravo wants to do something about it? We've talked about these things on this very thread; it's not like the definition of racism recently changed and that's why Bravo is suddenly jumping into action over stuff it OKed in 2018. I feel like Bravo is hoping that the VPR firings will be the fall guy for the network, and that this will save management and other shows (minus VPR probably and Southern Charm, which is horrifically toxic in its rapey, racist bro culture). Although there does seem to be a push currently from one Ms. Tamra Judge to fire Kelly Dodd for racist, nasty stuff she says. Why did/do I enjoy the RH shows? For a while during the last two decades, a lot of TV felt very CSI/Les Moonves-esque. I didn't see a lot of female representation outside of compliant, baby-voiced The Bachelor contestants -- the patriarchy's way of telling us what sort of women we are expected to be, lol. The RH showed women of all ages and backgrounds, and they were the stars. They weren't one dimensional representations of womanhood. We were seeing the good with the bad, and it provoked lots of debate. However, while I still enjoy the shows and the HWs, change is long overdue and needs to be implemented immediately. One problem, which a lot of us have flagged here over the years, is the segregation. Andy not wanting WOC on shows outside of Atlanta or Potomac. Naomi Campbell saying she would love to be on BH and Andy whining why can't she move to Atlanta? That stuck in my craw. Naomi is a Superstar and can go wherever she wants! The other problem is management, which I imagine is largely white. ATL had an egregious example. Carlos King, the black show runner, was fired and replaced by a largely white crew from Tardy for the Party, who were hired to focus on lazy waste-of-silicon Kim Z. It got so bad that Kandi refused to film unless a black producer was at least present on set. Change has to happen on all levels, including the top brass and writers room. (You can tell on Potomac there is a mixed or mostly AA crew which some of the HWs felt compelled to defend against the Darbys last year). Look at Garcelle, for example, who has grabbed a sliver of a chance on BH this year and is running with it. Bravo needs to run with this, too. This is no longer the time for baby steps. RH women can be problematic, but like @chrisml pointed out, at least RHOD confronted us with their racism. I certainly had to confront my own complicity in watching the show. Leann was rightly held to account and fired. We can all agree that Leeann and Brandi needed to go, though we might also dislike the manipulative, blinkered and coddled Kary. If RHOD wants some interesting Mexican-Americans in the mix, there was a Bravo show that nobody watched called Texicanas, set in San Antonio, which I loved. But again, Bravo did that segregate thing because Bravo is obsessed with clans, cliques, tribes, microcosms. Same with Family Karma (fab show featuring Indian-Americans in Miami) which nobody apparently watched either. Maybe we should also question the role of powerful advertisers on TV which, up until the pandemic, largely wanted to target certain demos. Those demos were usually 20-something white females.

Is Private Practice worth watching? Now I'm intrigued! BTW Audra MacDonald, who according to Wikipedia played Naomi in Private Practice, is also in an absolutely great show I am binge-watching at the moment -- The Good Fight.

If the backlash came from other African-Americans, including prominent ones, then I would wager that is what forced Bravo's hand. That and Nene's refusal to apologize. I long felt that Nene was needed on RHOA as a counterweight to Kenya's alpha personality, and that Kenya vs Nene was the rivalry to go with. However, I am now at a point where I am exhausted by Nene and her arrogance. I don't need to see Kenya vs Nene anymore, it is just too toxic. She treats everybody reprehensibly. Honestly, after laying hands on the crew, that should have been it. Physical assault cannot be tolerated. Instead, the crew member and the showrunner that season were obliged to resign. Nene seems to resent being on RHOA as much as she wants to keep collecting the paycheck. She is always in a foul mood. IA that she is probably consulting lawyers right now about unfair/racist dismissal.

@chrisml I believe B Scott is a pretty accurate blogger; he is Atlanta based and has a lot of good sources within the cast itself (possibly Kenya and Cynthia). I am shocked by this news, mainly because TT, who is also Atlanta based, has not mentioned this at all and was swearing up and down this week that Nene has a contract. Not just that she has a contract, but that she is RHOA's biggest draw and no way would Bravo be getting rid of her. I'm not sure what Nene did, whether it was comparing her pampered self to George Floyd, or declaring war on Andy Cohen recently... But for Bravo to fire one of their most recognizable black stars (if not THE most recognizable), at this particular point in time, too it must have been SOMETHING. Did Nene get serious public backlash from her most recent Tweets?

I would agree with that. After S3, Buffy lost its sparkle, and it became a lot darker and depressing (if you can believe it). SMG's weight loss was noticeable and she just seemed unhappy. I didn't know that about SMG and Marsters... they seemed to have a nice friendship going. Marsters talked about how he was filming long hours on Angel (the show) at one time, and SMG, despite pulling long hours herself, showed up on set with food for Angel cast and crew. I feel like if Buffy (the show) had been allowed to evolve the way Angel (the show) had, or even if Buffy the character had transferred to Angel (the show) in an extended story arc, SMG might have been happier. IA that BTVS ran too long. I did enjoy S4 actually (unpopular as it was). I never re-watched S5-7 after they were first screened.

I remember the Vanity Fair article from which this photo is taken. Nobody wanted Teri Hatcher in the centre of the picture, and Marcia Cross was especially aggrieved about this (she apparently stopped the photoshoot mid-session and screamed at their handler "MOVE HER! DO YOUR [!@#$%^&*] JOB!" So I wondered if Marcia Cross was the one with the problem. That being said, the crew apparently disliked Teri Hatcher also. Unlike the rest of the cast, she did not give them goodbye gifts when the show finally ended. They say SMG was a rather reserved person onset and that could be taken as standoffsihness. I am speculating, but a part of me feels she was harshly judged because she wasn't super touchy friendly and because she didn't overly kiss Joss Whedon's ass. Wheedon, for example, would host dinners at his family home where cast members he favored would get invited and perform scenes from Shakespeare or play improv games. I think Charisma Carpenter might have been the same -- she was friendly and on good terms with the Angel cast, but was never invited to the Wheedon family home for fun game night. And I suspect that Joss finally got bored with writing for both Buffy and Cordelia. With Cordelia, he was very angry CC got pregnant and basically wrote her character out saying that it had run its course. With Buffy, he couldn't say that because the show was called BTVS! So he soldiered on, but it became clear in the last few seasons that he was not interested in exploring the layers of Buffy as a person. It was around that time that SMG looked like she wanted to move on too, because the show was no longer giving her interesting material.

I was devastated by yesterday's RHONY episode. What am I going to do without Dale?! She loves the camera and the camera loves her! I loved the way Sonja greeted her at Tinsley's. Honestly, the episode did not feel like goodbye but a 'see you later.' After watching, I am convinced that Bravo is planning a Real Housewives of Chicago with Tinsley as the 'in.' Naturally, the pandemic has likely messed up scheduling of interviews of potential Chicago HWs, but nevertheless I think it's coming. Seeing Tinsley pack up was bittersweet. I had high hopes for her, but despite a fascinating backstory, I never quite warmed to her. Like the pieces were not quite the sum of their parts. She talked about moving some of her things to her places in Palm Beach and Newport. I wish we had got a chance to see more of her real life other than being holed up in a midtown hotel. The show put a nice chapter closure on her RHONY life though.

Ahmahghah. RHONY mid-season trailer!

I'm surprised they didn't leave RHONY going for four weeks and then when BH came back, put Rhony on hiatus for a few weeks. Or switch them out, 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there. IA! I love this thread. Will continue to check it for gossip and other observations! I still have to watch the Dale and Tinsley Gossip Girl knock-off you recommended (I put Dale first because IMO she is the real star, lol). Also, my Hulu (it's called Hayu here) account is recommending I get into Family Karma and the Real Housewives of Vancouver S1. It knows me too well. IA with you that Bravo could do a lot worse than screening all seasons of Melbourne over the next four weeks. LVP stans would be more than happy with a Gina fix. Also, a side dish of Auckland, which is a jewel of a one-hit season. It has RH's weirdest, kookiest, creepiest anti-heroine in Angela Stone (and one of its nastiest HWs in Julia).

Yeah, I don't think it is a conspiracy either. For one thing, Bravo cannot keep a secret to save its life. The network leaks like crazy. So if it was for a secret reason, we would soon know about it. It must be simply stretching content during these Covid times. And you of course highlight the technical aspect of not being able to go to a place of work to sift through content and piece it all together (though some great film editors in Hollywood's golden era did have editing booths built at home!). I credit Bravo's editors as unsung heroes. They have an eye for the tiniest detail and clearly a great sense of humor. The gentleman who recently passed who edited RHONY was especially talented. Four weeks is a long hiatus, but I guess I can catch up on other shows in the interim. Guys, what are we going to talk about on this thread though? Like, I check this thread every day!

Melbourne would be a good place to start. Auckland, Sydney, Vancouver.....

Thank you both for clarifying. All the 9pm slots this week have "New" next to it -- naughty, naughty, Bravo! False advertising! I'm so pleased to hear that RHONY will show a new episode at least. Can I just say how lovely Dorinda & Lu were with each other least week? And Dorinda leaving the restaurant early to go watch Ghost Hunters. I understand Bravo wanting to spread out the goodies. I am really looking forward to Potomac -- but ready to be patient and fully appreciate 1 or 2 RH shows at a time instead of watching the usual 3 or 4 in a rush. In answer to the rhetorical question posed in that Tweet: Andy Cohen, clearly, because he was very open about glazing over whenever Joyce talked at reunion. I don't think Andy gets Latinas. I noticed it with the Miami women too (except Mama Elsa). Joyce was doubly unlucky because S4 was a wretched season and Bravo got backlash for it. Carlton and Joyce took the fall because Bravo did not want to get rid of Brandi, Yolanda and Kyle. (All the excuses were pretty much "Oh, that's just Brandi being Brandi!") What I liked about Joyce is that she stayed true to herself and did not let anybody steamroll her, even when they belittled her. Quite honestly, the way Yolanda and Brandi spoke down to Joyce at Reunion was really belittling -- at one point Yolanda wouldn't even address her directly ("Oh my God, did you hear what she just said?"). They had a tone with her which would not pass muster nowadays.

On the Bravo website it is saying a new episode of BH tomorrow...? And of RHONY too. https://www.bravotv.com/schedule

Not just Kyle and Rinna. Erika has been instrumental in setting up Denise. She is positively seething in resentment. I dont know what happened after last year, when Erika was desperately up her ass ("just thinking about you and Aaron is my favourite porn!"). Her resentment is so weird too: is she enraged that Denise isn't like her character on Wild Things? That Denise seems to prioritize being a mom and her job? That she isn't encouraging everyone around her to snort coke off a hooker's backside? It bugs me so much that Erika sits there, not a word, but 5 f-ing months later in her confessionals rolls her shoulders trying to be the VT gangster (with the help of Mikey's props). She is definitely invested in bringing Denise down. Aaron seems to piss her off too, which I sort of understand given his kooky alternative-science and general bro vibe. Something about Aaron rubbed me the wrong way this week, esp when he talked to Denise under his breath at the end... I got the feeling that when Aaron doesn't get his way and women talk back to him, he isn't very nice. Having said that, I support his right to defend his wife in this conversation. I thought it was cowardly. I really, really hope it was because she somewhat cares for Denise and didn't want to be part of the gang-up --because I miss Rinna the human being. Remember back in the day when she and Eileen had each other's backs, come what may? There is something so icy and calculated about her now. I don't know if anyone noticed, but when she was in the car with Garcelle, she put some peer pressure on her, like, "Denise didn't tell Kyle she had been talking about her behind her back, I don't know why she didn't say anything," thereby setting up Garcelle to awkwardly bring up her issue with Kyle at her event when Kyle was ready and prepared to rumble this time. It was a masterclass in passive manipulation. I also wonder if Rinna wants to stay on Denise's good side for a little while longer, so that Denise keeps venting to and confiding in her. Rinna then picks up some nuggets to use against her.

One of the reasons Bethenny outside of RHONY impresses me is because she puts her brainpower to good use for causes she cares about. She is also, dare I say, damn-near-delightful on her Instagram with her daughter. Can't believe I wrote that!

Twitter dragging Erika for sitting there silent while filming and only coming up with nasty comebacks 5 months later in her confessionals. Aaron-speak translation: "It's just makeup. Let it go, let's move on." Even I got that. Denise not bringing her kids was boss and would definitely rile up the very women who use their children to win mommy points with the audience. Teddi thought she was being so tough mumbling under her breath like that? LMAO. Get her, Denise!

I re-watched and appreciated a few new things. -The way Ramona and Dorinda care for Leah. Leah acts out in order to get attention from these women. A part of her wants to be mothered and fussed over by them. It is such an unexpected dynamic to see, and even Elyse when confronting Leah was back-hugging her in a sort of sisterly way. -I am liking that Dorinda and Leah have this connection and understand each other. Dorinda was a lot better this week, something appears to have shifted. -Luann has taken very tumbles (in the Mexican bushes, and metaphorically. Hello, pirate! Hello, Palm Beach PD). All that backlash might have emotionally destroyed other people. But Luann keeps it moving. Even at her lowest, she searches for joy. Her yoga stretches that Newport morning are her way of affirming life. She can be strong and inspirational! -LOL, the way Lu told off Ramona and then went over to Dorinda, like, 'Can you believe this chick?' and Dorinda high-fived her... I was laughing so hard.

Eating some of my words to @Chris Blast week! It seems my timing in defending RHONY was perhaps off. I still love and stan for the show, but the Groundhog Day aspect has been well and truly reinforced. Part of the issue is Leah who I enjoy but who has been watching RHONY closely. She sees that getting sloppy drunk gets you places. And she is appealing to the weird maternal sides that both Ramona and Dorinda have for her. Unfortunately it is not progressing the show at the moment. Like @Taoboi there was a lot for me to appreciate though. Finally we seem to be turning a corner with Dorinds vs Tinsley. And I cannot get enough of Luann who is a voice of reason right now. I just love her energy. Oh, and Elyse is finally emerging from her shell. The hard drinking aspect must be confronted at some point, because the audience is now looking for resolution in these women's lives beyond the self-medicating with alcohol.

Wrong thread

[!@#$%^&*] DENISE RICHARDS is interviewed by Into The Gloss about her beauty regimen and other things. https://intothegloss.com/2020/05/denise-richards-beauty-routine/

She DID just sit there and eat her pine nuts! All the fat-finger pointing and outrage was in her VT! She takes her cues from equally weaksauce Kyle. Teddi is a damn coward!

I found BH exasperating to watch. This [!@#$%^&*] is Lucy Lucy Apple Juicy all over again. How long can we keep watching Denise explain and re-explain her totally valid motives for wanting to keep the sex bragging down around the kids? First somethig nice. Rinna looked 20 years younger and 20 times better without makeup and in her jammies making coffee. She seemed lighter too. And how good was it to see Denise at B&B with Thorsten and KKL?? Though I don't keep up with B&B anymore, this was the first show I watched from Day One. In its day, it was fantastic! Also, the sunset shots over Santa Barbara reminded me of the closing credits of SB (MY show as a kid) and that bombastic trumpet music which was so iconic. Can't believe I'm going to say this but Kyle was somewhat right when she said everyone was being passive aggressive and fake ass bitches and not talking about the real issue. By the same token, she was totally sitting back and letting it happen because it meant Denise was taking hits. Erika is so bloody obnoxious. The kids are probably already doing threesomes? Damn, what were your teenage years like? She thinks she is too cool for school but its all a ridiculous act. The sexualisation of those young girls absolutely must be brought up at reunion. The fact is, everyone wants Denise to be some wild, cynical young thing and she's not. They have perhaps heard the rumours that she started in Hollywood as an escort girl or something. Who cares? They just want an excuse to clutch their pearls and shame her. When they didn't get that, they pivoted and now it's "Ooo Denise is so prissy and such a hypocrite" because she's a decent mother who wants her kids to stay kids? Not one of them would want their kids talking threesomes or doing them! Not a one. Lipsa had a stroke at the merest thought of Sutton making a scene at her kids' borefest event. Teddi or Kyle want their little angels having multiple partners in ninth grade? No way! They are the hypocrites. Teddi's outrage in particular was ridiculous. Just burp out your third offspring and shut the f*ck up.

Woah! Controversial! No, j/k! You feel how you feel. And in some ways, IA that we are sometimes a little hasty in not giving one-and-done HWs second chances (Kathryn on BH / Jules on NYC come to mind). First of all, not to defend Ramona because she is only out for herself. But her texts sound like her way of getting Elyse out there. They are like a pep-talk. "The producers love you! Now get your ass over here!" She is trying to draw out Elyse, the friend she brought to the show. In a way, she is a little bit responsible for her and how she performs. The thing with Elyse, though -- and I stress this is entirely my opinion -- she doesn't pop onscreen. She doesn't radiate joy or humor. She lurks in the shadows, piping up every couple of hours with something that lands with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. For RHONY, you need to be a wordsmith. You need to cast a spell with your words. You need to be fast with the jokes (Bethenny). You need to decimate, (Dorinda), screw up the English language and invent your own (Ramona: "Let's not make a mountain out of a holemill"), flirt with the audience (Sonja). Elyse doesn't have that wordsmithery or that self-deprecation, it seems. Last week's party at Ramona's was Elyse's audition. And lord knows she tried. She tried to Be Seen. But nothing landed. Everything sounded self-scripted. Nothing jokey was actually funny. (As nervous and awkward as Jules got, her nerves were relatable and funny). It all felt a bit heavy-handed, and then got overshadowed by Dorinda and Ramona's screaming match and the DoRamonja kissing-fest. Poor Elyse was badly counselled or was just too nervous, but she didn't stand a chance against those 3. I wouldn't mind Jill back at all. She is part of the fabric (Zarin Fabrics!). RHONY is not a bust for me this season. But I can see that it has been Groundhog Daying the last five seasons. The problem is that the issues these women have are similar (transitioning from a great past life to a new one as single women). And the other problem is that the chemistry between the Core 4 is so good that Bravo is hesitant to mess it up. And I am glad they are hesitant, because it is impossible to recreate true chemistry by just casting a bunch of strangers to be 'friends' together.

LVP sliding into Kyle's Twitter comments like The rest of the comments are basically 'Sucks to be you making so many poor choices in friendship.'

I watched through to the Weinstein sighting, which was a shock. As much as Georgina Chapman may not have known the extent of his depravity, she certainly must have known of his cruelty to others and the way he leveraged (or, more accurately, bullied) stars into wearing Marchesa to high-profile events. And in a way, for Tinsley, this was also slumming it. From the Mortimers on the UES, where most people wear Oscar de la Renta, Bill Blass and Ralph Lauren, to Harvey Weinstein and a PR event for lowly Marchesa.... She must have been desperate to relaunch her life after the divorce and took a gamble with the fame game. No wonder Dale is a fit to be tied and wants Tinsley back with Topper, pronto! Gossip Girl! That's it! I wondered what this show reminded me of, and all I could come up with was Whitney Port's ill-fated The Hills spin-off, The City. But yeah, Tinsley is definitely channelling Serena van der Woodsen in that intro.