I think the internet is full of wannabe writers and everyone has a different idea about what is/will be sucessful. And that's perfectly okay. In the end of the day what's important is getting those ratings up, up... up. So... I'm supporting anything they have to do in order to make that happen. These first seasons we need to think more of survival than of quality... sadly. Once they gain the loyal audience and make their mark... then we can really get into it. 

Someone was talking about Naomi... earlier. Well... I think she is the type of character that could really blossom through the years. But this year is not her moment. She has been endlessly boring. All of this could change in the future.

 

What I appreciate that BTG has done is develop the characters. The amount of storyline told thus far has been copious and it has paid off in terms of development. 

 

 

 

I hate to be that person, but this Hayley reveal is silly, repetitive, and counterproductive.

Unpopular opinion: leaving breadcrumbs left and right and then picking them up after months (and possibly wrapping it up in 2 weeks, cause we know the show is notorious for skipping beats) IS NOT telling a story.

In less than a year, we’ve had countless foes infiltrating the Dupree clan—Leslie, Kenny, Alison, and now Hayley. At this point, the show is basically a “Who’s threatening the Duprees this week?” gimmick. It’s lazy writing.

Oh and I can’t wait to find out Hayley’s real name, because let’s be honest—this show is obsessed with aliases. We’ve had Dana/Leslie, Sammy/Randy (completely pointless), Samantha and Tyrell had different names, and I’m sure I’m forgetting more.

I do think the twist was planned from the start (which explains why Hayley never had a real “talk-to”), but it completely writes her into a corner. It ruins the fun of the triangle—it’s not a love triangle anymore, it’s just another villain vs. good guys setup.

And in this economy, who commits to a multi-year con like this? There are a thousand easier, less demanding scams. Also, Randy was supposedly one of the good guys, which is why Doug and Vanessa even took him in.

As for the rest of the show:

- This show has a weird gambling fixation. There’s the Golden Corral, the Dupree family literally placing bets on Ted’s marriage, Dani getting married in Vegas, Joey offering Donnell a job at the Golden Corral… It’s bizarre.

- A few weeks ago, Naomi described herself to André as “vindictive and ferocious.” Um… where? She’s boring, sanctimonious, and insufferable at best.

- Leslie’s actions toward Ted are borderline predatory and rape-y. Not sure why no one’s talking about it, but it’s giving very double standard vibes.

- Ted continues to be a total non-character. The new actor has zero charisma or presence. His line delivery is grating, and I’m genuinely shocked he gets more POV scenes than Nicole. Just look at Nicole’s first kiss with the new guy—it was shown from Ted’s perspective. Why?

1 hour ago, Aback said:

I do think the twist was planned from the start (which explains why Hayley never had a real “talk-to”), but it completely writes her into a corner. It ruins the fun of the triangle—it’s not a love triangle anymore, it’s just another villain vs. good guys setup.

The triangle sucked with her in it, so I say move on. This is a much more interesting story. They have Andre/Dani/Bill anyway.

Edited October 19Oct 19 by Vee

4 hours ago, Aback said:

I hate to be that person, but this Hayley reveal is silly, repetitive, and counterproductive.

Unpopular opinion: leaving breadcrumbs left and right and then picking them up after months (and possibly wrapping it up in 2 weeks, cause we know the show is notorious for skipping beats) IS NOT telling a story.

In less than a year, we’ve had countless foes infiltrating the Dupree clan—Leslie, Kenny, Alison, and now Hayley. At this point, the show is basically a “Who’s threatening the Duprees this week?” gimmick. It’s lazy writing.

Oh and I can’t wait to find out Hayley’s real name, because let’s be honest—this show is obsessed with aliases. We’ve had Dana/Leslie, Sammy/Randy (completely pointless), Samantha and Tyrell had different names, and I’m sure I’m forgetting more.

I do think the twist was planned from the start (which explains why Hayley never had a real “talk-to”), but it completely writes her into a corner. It ruins the fun of the triangle—it’s not a love triangle anymore, it’s just another villain vs. good guys setup.

And in this economy, who commits to a multi-year con like this? There are a thousand easier, less demanding scams. Also, Randy was supposedly one of the good guys, which is why Doug and Vanessa even took him in.

As for the rest of the show:

- This show has a weird gambling fixation. There’s the Golden Corral, the Dupree family literally placing bets on Ted’s marriage, Dani getting married in Vegas, Joey offering Donnell a job at the Golden Corral… It’s bizarre.

- A few weeks ago, Naomi described herself to André as “vindictive and ferocious.” Um… where? She’s boring, sanctimonious, and insufferable at best.

- Leslie’s actions toward Ted are borderline predatory and rape-y. Not sure why no one’s talking about it, but it’s giving very double standard vibes.

- Ted continues to be a total non-character. The new actor has zero charisma or presence. His line delivery is grating, and I’m genuinely shocked he gets more POV scenes than Nicole. Just look at Nicole’s first kiss with the new guy—it was shown from Ted’s perspective. Why?

Me trying to detect the lies, but there are none.

The writing has been fine. What makes BTG a standout for me is the casting. We have characters that have been relegated to the background or smaller roles on soaps from the start of the genre and they are finally brought to the forefront. Besides the more offensive (and we all know who they are), there are some quality performers like TMG and AM that bring it alongside the more seasoned actors. The representation of queer characters is also refreshing, but it kind of stops there. None of these stories feel modern. They feel like soap cliches taken and repurposed for the diverse characters of BTG. Now, a good story is a good story and we don't need to reinvent the wheel, but we can blend the tried and true with modern storytelling. The gay couple have been placed in a bubble to represent a very heteronormative expression of gay love, which is fine and nice to see but why add grown kids to such a young couple. These characters could have been open to so much more as young professionals getting their start in DC instead of a boring, married couple. They kinda boring yall, sorry to say. 

Speaking of grown kids, the character ages are so wild on this show and it isn't helped by casting choices like Samantha and Peaches. 

And this isn't to rub anyone here the wrong way, I am enjoying BTG but I had way too high expectations for it and it is middling at best. It is fine. It serves a purpose and I watch because there is some enjoyment, but I wouldn't say I have been wow'd or in love with any stories yet. 

The lack of sets isn't something that can be helped because budgets are tight, but it is also a major sore spot on this show. It also can explain why a lot of action has been talked about instead of actually seen. I am still holding out that Doug isn't dead because we never saw the body and he was somehow in the know of Joey's plot and he is coming back for revenge. Otherwise what a lame way to kill off Doug. 

 

I can't believe I'm in the positive spectrum of reactions again. 😂I was beginning to dislike this show so much the past few months... to a point I stopped watching. But now I'm getting hooked again. You all know why. 

And even though I see some things different... I love reading honest takes. So @Aback and @GLATWT88 - I appreciate both your comments. And I agree about a lot of these issues. I've said so much criticism over the past few months that... you know I do. I've never been ashamed to say what I think. 

As you all know... I still don't like the overall style of storytelling... The cheap headline of the month/tabloid scandal that always gets a few great episodes  and then they flatline. Missing beats. Relying too much on describing and not showing us. But I've also realized this may be what the show is going to be like... at least till they get the ratings high and strong. They want to keep the interest going.

I don't like the dialogue 50 percent of the time and I think that trying to make characters like Ashley... and Tomas happen after they've flopped from day 1, scene 1... Is counterproductive. It loses the time and patience of the viewers. Just look how much excitement is generated when characters that we do care about get more attention. We don't need to watch these stunning actresses (Kat and Eva) play with a male blow-up doll. Stop it. BTG needs to cut dead weight quicker. All of this airtime should be given to the characters that work or even new ones... (Wink, wink... Victoria Rowell!) I HOPE TO GOD we don't have to see Tomas for years more to come. If they decide to keep him... At least make him the cartoon we see once a week to laugh at... And don't try to put him in these fatal leading male situations. A sane woman won't be losing her time with this. And here we have two.

17 hours ago, P.J. said:

On paper, a lot of this should work. Nicole feels like a classic heroine, and I've warmed up to Dani and Bill (a little bit). Eva vs. Kat could drive stories for years. 

BTG feels like it's working too hard and lacking focus. 

You're right! There's A LOT, on paper, that should've actually worked from the very beginning. They established these characters with very interesting backgrounds that could've given most, if not all, of them intriguing stories from the jump. 

Backgrounds such as........

 Current and retired senators, Psychiatrist, Plastic Surgeon, Cardiologist, Real Estate mogul, Investigative Reporter, Nurse, Firefighter, Police Detective, Lawyers, one with his own firm, Former model, designated playboy (where are all of those brokenhearted women Andre left behind?), town gangster...and so on.

Edited October 19Oct 19 by Vanguardian53

Well as I said, it was never really a triangle. It has always been clear that the writers really wanted Dani/Bill with Hayley as a spoiler. Reveal or not (and I'm going back to how Hayley was always around given more hints that the reveal was planned), Hayley was never as developed as Dani or Bill. I picked on that for months. It's clear...even with Bill's actions/histories...who the audience is supposed to be rooting for. But good to see that some of the writers see how unexpectedly hot Dani/Andre are and now we have an actual (and nice developed) triangle with Bill/Dani/Andre. 

3 hours ago, Maxim said:

I can't believe I'm in the positive spectrum of reactions again. 😂I

That's cuz you got a new gal to get your life from. 😜 

On 10/17/2025 at 11:01 PM, Gatecrashers said:

Also, a couple of days before the Hayley reveal, they listed Dani in the credits as "Dani Dupree Hamilton" and Hayley as "Hayley Lawson."

I think I've noticed that when I'm on the app.

 

I like that usually when a new actor is about to appear, they show up in the credits first. 

It might not be a hint of anything to come, but Malachi Malik (Elon) posted a picture with Trisha Mann-Grant at a film festival. Leslie and Elon would be an interesting pairing and Leslie certainly needs to let go of Ted. Elon is unscrupulous enough for her too.

 

21 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

I know I must sound schizophrenic, because I've been so critical of different elements on BTG, but now I want to defend it

I don't understand the "simplicity" accusation and I don't understand how there's a lack of complexity. Without examples, I can't get on board with either of those.

What plots on the other soaps are complex? The business stories mess on Y&R? Who's married to Ridge this week on B&B? The Sophia baby daddy story on DAYS? The "no one pays for murder" stories on GH?

I'm not trying to be difficult. Like all soaps, BTG has plenty of problems, but I don't see how complexity is one of them.

And I feel that's a fair point as well. I was happy PJ went into their POV farther yesterday. I've seen people continue to talk about things that have been on screen and it has me confused why they are saying it's not on screen...and I know we discussed this before but for example...I noticed the background music discussion pop back up a few weeks back, but as you know even on rewatch I still don't pick up on what others say. Personally I feel the music has gotten too B&B pre-studio move where it overpowers the dialogue. I also like to hear specifics from folks which is why I genuinely asked as well. 

 

It's like all the delicious Hayley discussion we got this week. I don't agree with all of it, but I have enjoyed reading all the different perspectives.

 

I even saw the discussion about the dialogue. With specifications so it's now making sense to me. And actually agree, but I didn't have time to reply yesterday. I have been enjoying that the writers do appear to be finding their writing rhythm again in terms of plot. HOWEVER, they still are not gelling in their day-to-day dialogue. I have noticed that there has been some mix-match of breakdowns and scriptwriters going onand it is really noticeable. Especially when you know what writers appear to be good at. Someone mentioned it and I also mentioned the last time he did it as well. Jazmen Darrnell Brown is one of the good scriptwriters (in spite of his debatable use of slang ) and have usually saved RC's breakdowns when he gets them. But to be shocking...RC's breakdowns IMHO have actually been good. It is probably not coincidence that his breakdowns tend to be the ones with the plot twists and soapiest. His breakdown was the Hayley reveal and that shows truth on MVJ's side that he will execute it like a soap. Meanwhile, Sara Bibel seems to have a good groove with Lynn Martin or Judy Tate, but I've noticed that one is different from the other. Teresa Zimmerman had a good groove with Judy Tate I believe...moreso when they do the majority of a week which they have from time to time. And they get development in their scripts, but are really good IMO at plot details. But I have noticed they don't work together as much. And Danielle Paige is likeable, but can be hit-or-miss. So far, I've liked Jamey's breakdown, but I don't have history with his writing like everyone else does. I assume that we are getting to the point that a third of the writing team is about to leave so perhaps they are trying to experiment with who wants together well and who...doesn't. 

21 hours ago, Maxim said:

I definitely want it to be... unexpected when it happens. I imagine one of them walking towards the other... and just LOSING it... without us even having the time to take a breath. I want to feel shocked! That's the beauty of the good catfight. I would hate if it was too staged and fake. And I hope to GOD they don't use these artificial sounding fight sounds... that soaps love to use. The fake slap and fake punch music effects. I want it to feel REAL. And be memorable. If we are going to go there... go there ALL THE WAY. 

If I see an earring pop off or a shoe go flying...lol...

 

20 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I think the Articulate story was meant to give some backstory/focus on Anita.. to show that she wasn't the influential person she made herself out to be, and also to provide a sort of karma to Anita by way of SPS.  

And I think the Martin/Smitty situation was too quickly resolved with the two getting back together without solving any of the issues that put them in the situations they were in.  Although it is realistic that people break up/reunite.. rinse/lather/repeat (ala Brittani and Jared on RHOSLC), but it can get annoying after awhile.

Also I was venturing onto Threads/Instragram.. and peeps were wondering/gossiping about Hayley and debating on what is coming next and how excited they were.  Most were also anti-Naomi and thought Jacob is a saint to put up with her LOL 

Power of social media

OMG!!! Not you bringing up Britini and Jared LMAO!!! Where are my smelling salts? lol.

 

Well, Anita is a major character, so she needed a story of her own. I think that's the main reason I liked the Articulate story. Other than that one abrupt stop...kinda like how Martin's Secret started and then vanished for months...it was good because it had a beginning, middle, and end. We saw from the beginning that Anita missed singing, but had issues about getting back on stage. TT sold that, the hint behind her eyes that there was something more to it. We got the karaoke night. We got the agent. We got the Sharon hang-up. And then...we got the mystery of Barbara. We got to see Anita with her bandmates separately to get a feel for the relationships in the band. And some back and forth. But it finally built to the concert slowly, but nicely. And then...resolution with a feel for Anita as a character, great supporting from Sharon and Tracy (and getting yet another character/actress I liked with the name). And it was tied up nicely. But this IS a soap, So SPS being Barbara's daughter does keep that history/story alive in a way. Of course, that depends on how the writers play that going forward. But that's a discussion for another time.  I guess for me, giving that soaps by their very nature are never-ending and how it's been a minute since a soap that I watch did an arc within the show...I just liked it. And the concert!!! Dazzled. It even had little stories going on (SPS crashing, Dani/Andre coming out party so Shanice could tell Ashley, Martin/Smitty soap longing to be together) like a soap event should.

 

Yeah...I like it, but I do feel Martin/Smitty reuniting is feeling too rushed for me as well. It is making me see how invested I am in them. And it's nice to see a gay interracial couple so central. And how they played the longing I'm used to seeing in straight soap couples before the reuniting was superb to me. Given the anvils that have been dropped with Marcel's returned presence, Hayley talking about Martin, Kenny's name popping up again...I can only assume their reuniting so quickly because another beat in Martin's Secret is going to be played. Methinks if not that, from Chels' kidnapping and Joey is going to call in his favor. 

 

Same! Like here, I have enjoyed all the discussion/jokes that Hayley got this week. To think she was so minor at the beginning, got mild interest with the baby lie, and now she IS the moment. I was loving it. I haven't seen too much on Naomi and Jacob so I'm kinda sad to hear that.

 

Ah yes! The power of social media.

 

19 hours ago, Maxim said:

YES. People are so excited about her. The Hamilton Widow is THE MOMENT. All eyes are on her... now it depends what she does NEXT (what they write her to do) that will make or break the magic. She is a water cooler soap moment that needs to be touched with velvet gloves right now. She could really improve ratings if done right. We don't want a Leslie 2 (one is enough for this show)... and we don't want her to climax (in terms of story) too fast. THE LONG GAME should be their RULE NUMBER 1. 

YES! All of this!

19 hours ago, P.J. said:

On paper, a lot of this should work. Nicole feels like a classic heroine, and I've warmed up to Dani and Bill (a little bit). Eva vs. Kat could drive stories for years. 

Same. If anything, I just want sooo much more Nicole because that's how she comes across. I love a good heroine (Y&R Sharon, GH Liz/Robin). I was always Team Dani, but KM has been a revelation in the role now that she's settled into it and I'm loving her more than I expecting. And if played right, Eva vs Kat really could be driving stories for years. Let just get them away from Tomas. 

46 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

I have noticed that there has been some mix-match of breakdowns and scriptwriters going on and it is really noticeable. Especially when you know what writers appear to be good at.

Just as I needed PJ to explain what he meant about plotting -- which he did very well -- I continue to ask for an explanation about breakdowns.

Maybe I'm just dense, but I do not understand why one breakdown is considered to be great and another to be bad. A certain poster here repeatedly trashes a couple writers' breakdowns, and while I've asked for an explanation, it never comes.

I guess I need the "PJ-style explanation" of why any particular breakdown is terrible vs one that's really good.

 

1 minute ago, ranger1rg said:

Just as I needed PJ to explain what he meant about plotting -- which he did very well -- I continue to ask for an explanation about breakdowns.

Maybe I'm just dense, but I do not understand why one breakdown is considered to be great and another to be bad. A certain poster here repeatedly trashes a couple writers' breakdowns, and while I've asked for an explanation, it never comes.

I guess I need the "PJ-style explanation" of why any particular breakdown is terrible vs one that's really good.

 

I believe I know who you mean.  Well, for me...

 

I'll use the controversial RC for an example. I know I talked forever and a day about RC's first breakdown when the show started...the Dani breaks into Bill's house episode. I hatttttted that episode. We had gotten these great episodes full of nuances, movement, fashion, and backstory. Then we get this episode that landed like a thud. I believe the poster means that rather than the scenes being able to breathe, flowing from scene to scene...the Dani episode was quick cuts between scenes...abrupt...something RC like to do. He also likes to either use camp (in scenes AND some dialogue) or the humor I dislike and vent about all the time in the GH thread...that 'wacka wacka' which is silly-not in a good way, slapsticky-not in a good way, full of quips, and very 'look at me! look at me being funny! hahaha'. Very 'who's on first?' A humor I don't like on GH so I didn't like it here. Dani trying to break in, throwing off silly quips. The scene with the security guard being dumb while Dani gets to be 'look at me throw a quip.' Here is a woman trying to break into her ex's house and rather than play it serious, it was really being played for camp and for laughs. RC also seems to like having a running joke in his breakdowns. Elevator baby (though that one isn't his, he ran with it in every episode his name was on), Derek and the cat. Tomas and Eva's love of Carli Vati (a play on Ron's name). And it was an abrupt tonic shift from the episodes that came before that just did not work. From what I remember it was BTG's first horrible episode.

 

I believe at the time it was discussed. And I want to say I said that the show was just starting and one time could be a flop. RC was still getting his feel. Also even if RC's breakdowns are written and set up to be campy/slapsticky, a good scriptwriter might be able to tame some of those IMHO writing flaws. And...well...I was proven right.

 

I believe RC kept being teamed with Judy Tate and Lynn Martin for the script writing for his breakdowns at first. I found that to be very hit or miss. I know one of them appeared to not be able to overcome what he set up on the breakdown. The other one actually did good scripting in spite of his breakdown. I just can't remember which was which.  Thankfully, RC actually started to get better with his breakdowns IMO...and I noticed rather than being over-campy, they came across soapy to me. And like I mentioned earlier...some of the latest reveals if I'm not mistaken have been off of his breakdowns over the last few months. But let me not digress...

 

Jazmen's first script from RC's breakdowns have actually made RC's breakdown better. If RC's writing tics are still there, I have not really noticed. And I credit that to the strength of Jazmen's scriptwriting. Which to me means that there is a script writer in house that can overcome any silliness/slapsticky antics in RC's breakdown. And so far to date, any time RC and Jazmen are grouped together, they have been good episodes except for one that I was surprised at how bored I was. I think Lynn has done a script under RC which didn't bother me recently. And I think the scripts that Danielle Paige has done under RC are too early to tell for me if I like her or not. 

 

I think that is what some posters are meaning when they are talking about how horrible some breakdowns come across versus others. Or I hope that gives a little bit more of an idea. But I am just speaking for myself for the most part. RC is just one of the more clear examples because I feel due to his runs on OLTL, GH, and DAYS he definitely has a style that stands out in his writing no matter what show he's on. Same for Sara I believe. And same for Jamey from what I've read here. 

53 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

Same. If anything, I just want sooo much more Nicole because that's how she comes across. I love a good heroine (Y&R Sharon, GH Liz/Robin). I was always Team Dani, but KM has been a revelation in the role now that she's settled into it and I'm loving her more than I expecting. And if played right, Eva vs Kat really could be driving stories for years. Let just get them away from Tomas. 

As someone who criticized KM in the first weeks of the show and felt she was really struggling being "angry, shoot'em up Dani", I'm happy to say I agree---she's settled into the role. I mostly meant that I've warmed up to Bill. The rest of the males, however are still pretty bland and interchangeable.

I'm surprised more focus hasn't been landed on Nicole. Anita may be the matriarch, but Nicole should be the heart of the show as she rebuilds her life.