ABC did cut down on the number of episodes their soaps made each year, but it wasn't a huge decrease - like, maybe 10 episodes per year? IIRC, they just sprinkled reruns in at random times throughout the year. I remember one of the more notable reruns was an OLTL from 1996 with focus on Marty and Patrick. GH might've dug as far back, but AMC never did. I feel like it didn't really last long across the network before they just stuck with more contemporary reruns (blech).

*** Found a SON thread from 2010. ABC was considering cutting as many as 20 new episodes per year for each of its three soaps. I don't think it ever went that far (obviously because they cut both AMC and OLTL down by about 250 episodes each within the ensuing year and a half HAHAHA).

I've always hated soaps being referred to as having "seasons" because in most cases, a "season" has a beginning and an end, with an "off season" in between. It makes no sense to use that to refer to something runs year-round.

Edited July 24Jul 24 by All My Shadows

16 hours ago, cityfan01 said:

Didn’t ABCD do something like this before they cut AMC/OLTL? Weren’t they doing something called Flashback Friday or am I making that up in my head? 

Yes.  I think it was a Tuesday or Wednesday though and didn't last long.  It started with Vanessa Marcil's return as Brenda in 2010.  GH/Brenda episodes got the whole 3 hour block.  I swear it was only a few months but they'd do all classic episodes for one day a week.  I don't think there was another character specific one, perhaps AM's return as Kendall?  It wasn't very popular, IIRC.

It definitely wasn't a weekly thing. Maybe once or twice a month.

***Okay, now I've found why it didn't last long lol Cutting the episodes would have meant reducing script guarantees for the SWs, resulting in substantial paycuts and breaking an agreement between TPTB and the WGA. ABC wanted a waiver on the agreement, WGA countered with protections for the scriptwriters, ABC refused the counter, so the WGA said "well then get the fck out of our face."

It's funny because several SON posters correctly predicted that the breakdown in talks between ABC and WGA basically signed the cancellation notices for AMC and OLTL.
 

Edited July 24Jul 24 by All My Shadows

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I do think a new and ugly turn is the anti-DEI obsession that is being put through everywhere with brute force. I would not be surprised if this is used to go after or get rid of Beyond the Gates.

Skydance Tells FCC Paramount Eliminated DEI, Pledges to Appoint CBS Ombudsman

I would be, as I can't think of a single recent example of people protesting or putting pressure to cancel an original IP because the characters aren't white. Do you think Let's Make A Deal is on the chopping block too? 

Also, BTG has nothing to do with DEI. Nor does other successful daytime shows with primarily Black talent like First Take, Good Morning America, Family Feud, etc.

1 hour ago, All My Shadows said:

It definitely wasn't a weekly thing. Maybe once or twice a month.

***Okay, now I've found why it didn't last long lol Cutting the episodes would have meant reducing script guarantees for the SWs, resulting in substantial paycuts and breaking an agreement between TPTB and the WGA. ABC wanted a waiver on the agreement, WGA countered with protections for the scriptwriters, ABC refused the counter, so the WGA said "well then get the fck out of our face."

It's funny because several SON posters correctly predicted that the breakdown in talks between ABC and WGA basically signed the cancellation notices for AMC and OLTL.
 

Thanks! Once or twice a month sounds right to me actually.  I could remember it happening but couldn't recall the terms or why it ended.

 

I remember this too and wasn't there something on Friday's for AMC and OLTL for ToLN? 

1 hour ago, All My Shadows said:

ABC did cut down on the number of episodes their soaps made each year, but it wasn't a huge decrease - like, maybe 10 episodes per year? IIRC, they just sprinkled reruns in at random times throughout the year. I remember one of the more notable reruns was an OLTL from 1996 with focus on Marty and Patrick. GH might've dug as far back, but AMC never did. I feel like it didn't really last long across the network before they just stuck with more contemporary reruns (blech).

*** Found a SON thread from 2010. ABC was considering cutting as many as 20 new episodes per year for each of its three soaps. I don't think it ever went that far (obviously because they cut both AMC and OLTL down by about 250 episodes each within the ensuing year and a half HAHAHA).

I've always hated soaps being referred to as having "seasons" because in most cases, a "season" has a beginning and an end, with an "off season" in between. It makes no sense to use that to refer to something runs year-round.

At that time, ABC implemented the reruns on holidays rule, which remains in effect with GH even today. This was done to help reduce production costs, something which the WGA had a huge issue with. It backfired on the WGA, as it was just another way ABC used to try to keep their soaps on the air, given that their revenue was rapidly declining from what they had been getting in years past.

There were better methods they could have used, but at the time, that's what the boneheads at ABC Daytime came up with, particularly as same-day repeats on SOAPnet were set to become a thing of the past. Remember, these are the same folks who thought turning SOAPnet into a "Sex and the City"-type network was a great concept when asked by Anne Sweeney to provide alternatives. In the end, Disney Jr. got the green light from the Disney Channel folks.

Regarding seasons, just like talk shows (daytime and late night), soaps do have "season premieres," but it was more from an internal perspective rather than a marketing one. That changed in recent years, specifically for the soaps. The writers always have to provide an outline of their storylines for the next "season" to TPTB. With the ever-evolving world of TV (broadcast, cable and now streaming), every show has a "season" in terms of marketing. It is what it is.

26 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

I remember this too and wasn't there something on Friday's for AMC and OLTL for ToLN? 

I believe that was more budget than simply carrying on the ABC/WGA situation. TOLN didn't have enough money to produce both soaps in the same manner they had been accustomed to while on ABC. That's why they did half-hour episodes and only did four a week, at least initially. As money continued to dwindle, they cut back to two episodes a week and then one episode a week.

To combat the lack of five episodes at launch, they launched that awful "More" show, which was an interesting concept, but poorly executed.

1 hour ago, bongobong said:

I would be, as I can't think of a single recent example of people protesting or putting pressure to cancel an original IP because the characters aren't white. Do you think Let's Make A Deal is on the chopping block too? 

Also, BTG has nothing to do with DEI. Nor does other successful daytime shows with primarily Black talent like First Take, Good Morning America, Family Feud, etc.

I'd say there is a vocal backlash against an original IP with non-white characters in central roles - Ironheart is the most recent. People who are racist and also just people who want to make a quick dollar grifting about wokeness.

Very powerful people in this country see anything that features black actors in lead roles as DEI, and Shari Redstone has been bending over backwards to cater to those people. Learning that this Skydance has the same mentality does make me wary.

39 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I'd say there is a vocal backlash against an original IP with non-white characters in central roles - Ironheart is the most recent. People who are racist and also just people who want to make a quick dollar grifting about wokeness.

Very powerful people in this country see anything that features black actors in lead roles as DEI, and Shari Redstone has been bending over backwards to cater to those people. Learning that this Skydance has the same mentality does make me wary.

Ironheart isn't original IP, but I don't disagree that there is toxicity in Marvel/Disney's online discourse.

If Paramount thought for a second that BTG would be a factor in the merger they would not have renewed it.

1 hour ago, bongobong said:

If Paramount thought for a second that BTG would be a factor in the merger they would not have renewed it.

Given the ongoing dumpster fire that has been this merger there is no guarantee Paramount (let alone Skydance) was thinking that far ahead, frankly. There are a lot of shows being canned or scrapped due to preemptive submission to fears of "too much DEI". You see it these days being hurled at virtually any project featuring women or people of color/LGBT in leading roles.

Edited July 24Jul 24 by Vee

9 hours ago, Michael said:

Thanks for the additional insights, Errol.

One benefit of Days shifting to streaming has been that they aren't beholden to such exact episode lengths. We've gotten a few 45-minute-plus episodes since the move, but sometimes they're as short as 31-32 minutes. I think that CAN benefit the shows both creatively and financially.

I wonder how the inconsistency in episode lengths translates to shows aired in other countries. I suppose the longer length episodes would be cut in areas, and any flashbacks would be removed, but for episodes where's its under 35 minutes, it's like damn, that'd a lot of commercial time to fill. 

7 hours ago, dragonflies said:

Errol it also doesn't help that Kassie DePaiva did an interview a few days ago saying OLTL was doing well and that the cancellation made no sense 

Love Kassie, but it's clear she, among others, is misremembering how the show's ratings were when the announcement to cancel finally came. Same for Susan Lucci and All My Children.

Weeks before the dual cancellations were announced, One Life to Live started to show signs of health in terms of viewership and a growing demo performance, often topping General Hospital. Sadly, it was too little, too late. Ad rates had already been set, and for both those shows, they were significantly down revenue-wise. No matter, Susan was told the show was healthy by some mystery VP, as she said on Good Morning America, trying to quell Jamey Giddens' reporting at DC at the time.

Making a dollar profit is not proof of health. Despite the political aspect of it, Paramount did, in fact, cancel The Late Show with Stephen Colbert because he was losing them millions. Being #1 in the daypart doesn't suddenly mean you're making the network/studio money.

Today's announcement by Peacock that it'll keep DAYS on through 2027-2028 proves the show is making the streaming service money, even though they don't tout its success in press releases. Same with CBS/Paramount+ with it renewing The Young and the Restless and The Bold and the Beautiful through 2027-2028, and to a lesser extent, Beyond the Gates through 2025-2026.

Soaps are doing for the streaming services what they once did for the broadcast networks in the 1980s, helping keep the lights on and paying them bills as churn is low among the group primarily watching soaps.

43 minutes ago, Vee said:

Given the ongoing dumpster fire that has been this merger there is no guarantee Paramount (let alone Skydance) was thinking that far ahead, frankly. There are a lot of shows being canned or scrapped due to preemptive submission to fears of "too much DEI". You see it these days being hurled at virtually any project featuring women or people of color/LGBT in leading roles.

The administration hasn't ideologically changed in the 2 months or so since Paramount renewed BTG, The Chi, Yellow Jackets, Ghosts, probably 30 RuPaul spinoffs, and hopefully/likely Lioness will be announced soon.

 

25 minutes ago, Errol said:

Making a dollar profit is not proof of health. Despite the political aspect of it, Paramount did, in fact, cancel The Late Show with Stephen Colbert because he was losing them millions. Being #1 in the daypart doesn't suddenly mean you're making the network/studio money.

Today's announcement by Peacock that it'll keep DAYS on through 2027-2028 proves the show is making the streaming service money, even though they don't tout its success in press releases. Same with CBS/Paramount+ with it renewing The Young and the Restless and The Bold and the Beautiful through 2027-2028, and to a lesser extent, Beyond the Gates through 2025-2026.

Soaps are doing for the streaming services what they once did for the broadcast networks in the 1980s, helping keep the lights on and paying them bills as churn is low among the group primarily watching soaps.

Being an endangered species for 15 years seemed to have kept the soaps on their toes compared to late night. Shortsighted that in 2015 CBS cut and pasted Colbert (who rose to fame via a bare-bones program) into the Letterman show like it was still 2004.

50 minutes ago, Errol said:

... Soaps are doing for the streaming services what they once did for the broadcast networks in the 1980s, helping keep the lights on and paying them bills as churn is low among the group primarily watching soaps.

I love that we are, sorta, the anti-churn.