ALL: General Retro Soap Discussion

[Wendy]

I liked the 1991 revival of Dark Shadows!

My grandmother was totally into the original daytime version, but it was nice to see what it was all about while re-introducing the story to the masses in prime time.

If I recall, I read somewhere that - before the Gulf War and constant interruptions - that version was slowly gaining traction numbers wise. But then came that Gulf War, momentum was lost, and...that was it.

And it was nice to see some former daytime stars [Michael T. Weiss, Joanna Going] and up-and-comers [young Joseph Gordon Levitt] in those iconic roles.

A few years back, I came across an unsold early 2000s pilot for yet another revival of the show on YouTube - and IMO only, it made the 1991 version look Oscar worthy.

Perhaps, for such a series, the law of diminishing returns applies with the constant re-imaginings...

Edited Saturday at 02:38 AM by Wendy

[Vee]

Michael T. Weiss was insanely hot on DS. I never got over it as a kid, despite being about JGL's age lol. (I had a crush on him a little later too) I thought Barbara Blackburn was amazing as Carolyn too, but I've never seen her again. I even liked Ely Pouget's pagan bohemian version of Maggie, because it was a unique and distinct character.

They did kill off way too people in that first season, in keeping with Dan Curtis patterning a ton of that storyline after House of Dark Shadows which was his own speedrun version of 1967 DS. There was no need to kill off Joe Haskell. The buzz was that they did it in the hopes of introducing Weiss as either Chris Jennings the werewolf, or the reincarnation of Peter Bradford or both, but there were ways to do those same things with Joe.

I haven't seen the WB pilot in years but I remember PJ Hogan(?) doing very interesting things with the lighting and style, though I remember virtually nothing else. I should revisit it.

The thing that sticks with me the most about DS '91 and still the scariest thing in it IMO, was the initial manifestation of Angelique, as a screaming/laughing spectre that bursts out of Barnabas' fireplace. That terrified me. They had the foresight this time around to layer in Angelique from the beginning and did so, and you didn't hear about her again til Vicki went back to 1795. I watched it again recently, it's still scary (and timestamped below)! The music is great too.

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[Contessa Donatella]

Oh, I forgot that Michael T. Weiss was in it!!!! Yeah, the Gulf War killed some promising shows. I think one was called WIOU. 

Anyway, at this rate I'm going to have to watch the DS 1991 primetime reboot on YT. 

 

[kalbir]

Dark Shadows ended nearly 55 years ago yet it is probably the only daytime soap opera that will live on forever thanks to cable, DVD, streaming.

[Paul Raven]

Dark Shadows 2hr Pt 1 ranked 30th 14.6/23

Pt 2 2hr ranked 28th 13.1/21

First hour long ep #61 7.5/14 

[DRW50]

It was killing off so many characters, the lack of characters I could care about (beyond Victoria, I suppose) and just finding the story very heavy going that made me check out of the revival as it went along. I remember the DS anniversary book that came out in '91 or so suggesting that House of Dark Shadows being so dark was why the show lost more viewers. I don't think that's entirely true - DS was a fad with a lot of young people who were growing out of watching and the pace of the show also couldn't be sustained - but I do think DS at its core is extremely dark in ways that the ridiculousness the show could veer into post-1795 or so managed to mask or balance. The revival being more polished meant the ridiculousness was gone. The Big Finish audios, the few I've listened to, are the same - good, but incredibly bleak.

I know the Tim Burton film is campier, but I have no real interest in seeing it, especially after Lara Parker's comments about hambone Helena Botham Carter being two-faced.

Holy hell - as I was finishing this post the old commercial reel I was watching had KLS selling houses for Century 21. How eerie. How fitting for DS.

Edited Saturday at 12:55 PM by DRW50

[Chris B]

I didn't hate the WB/CW pilot for Dark Shadows. I think it was good enough to at least get picked up. I find it hard to judge just on the pilot alone. What I am most interested in is the most recent attempts to reboot the series. I know this was pitched to network and streaming services but they weren't able to get it off the ground. 

Mark B. Perry (Party of Five, One Tree Hill, Ghost Whisperer, Revenge, etc.) was the writer and the show almost landed at NBC, then the CW and at the time of this article it was being pitched to streaming networks. I thought the overall premise sounded interested and I liked that it would've been a continuation and not a complete remake.

You can read more about it here: https://bloody-disgusting.com/exclusives/3679280/dark-shadows-reincarnation-mark-b-perry-reveals-sequel-series-may-still-come-life-phantom-limbs/

[Mona Kane Croft]

Lots of talk about Jill Farren Phelps in the specific SON soap chats, so I thought I'd ask a few general questions about her here:

1. Does anyone think that JFP might have had some long-term success and longer tenure, if she had been the original executive producer of a new soap opera (rather than taking-on long-running soaps, some of which were already in trouble)??

2. Or what if JFP had created her own soap opera and got in on a network?  Could she have been a successful executive producer on a soap she had created (rather than attempting to fit long-running soaps into her mold)??

3. Well known soap scribe, Harding Lemay, once said in an interview, "Jill is the most talented executive producer I have ever worked with."  Why do you think he said that? Was he off his rocker, or did he have good reason for feeling that way?

4. Do you think JFP was all bad?  And if not, what were her strengths?   

[kalbir]

It's difficult to think of anything positive JFP did at any show.

I recognize that she stepped up her Emmy block voting game at Santa Barbara and by the time she got to Guiding Light, JFP had the Emmy block voting game on lock.

I also recognize that her first year at Guiding Light she got the ratings up but to me she was coasting off the groundwork laid during Robert Calhoun's run. It also helped that the ABC big three were tanking at various times during that year and Days was in their post-supercouple/pre-Reilly mess era.

 

[Vee]

It's not a positive per se, but I do think JFP had a very canny sense of how to frontline certain vets of a certain age as a delivery system for her own objectives and preferred actors. At OLTL she did this expertly. Erika Slezak, Bob Woods and Hillary B. Smith were relentlessly frontburner again and doing great work, but it was all in service of lousy storylines transparently designed to push her favorite actors and upend the show for them. The trick was you often couldn't stop watching as a dedicated fan if Nora, Viki, etc. were your favorite characters (as they were mine). They were on 4, 5 days a week and I was dying to see if Nora and Bo would finally make it back together. (They didn't, because Kale Browne, Mark Derwin, etc. were Jill's priorities.)

Don't worry though - the troll who thrives on any negative engagement will show up to rehash gushing positive talking points about JFP from 1998 soon.

[Franko]

I think the absolute best case scenario would have been if she got out of daytime. Now, whether she would have succeeded in primetime is anyone's guess, but it would have at least have spared us the attempts at reinventing various shows (and the domino effect this would have on daytime).

(See above.)

I can't answer this one with any authority.

From what I understand, she was excellent at finding the right music for a scene. And she did inspire some loyalty or admiration from actors.

[Contessa Donatella]

No. And her tenure at GH was 12 years!

No.

He somewhat changed his mind when the WLS interviewer informed him about her murder of Frankie Frame & death of Maureen Bauer. He made that remark, I believe, in regard to his watching her sell the John Hudson/Felicia Gallant affair storyline to the 3 actors involved. It is a perfect example of the kind of story that fans hate for being against character integrity, etc. but actors love because it's something new for them to do. After he heard about those 2 deaths he said he would never have killed a character like that & that he never did so.

She was an excellent Musical Producer. She sort of invented musical montages that highlight couples in love. 

She perfected block voting to win Emmys.

She was the EP at OLTL when Michael Zaslow played the part of David Rinaldi afflicted with ALS & using a laptop to communicate so that he was functioning as an actor at the end of his life & so had that dignity afforded to him. She was not responsible for his being allowed to do so, though. But she did not prevent it.

There are people on staff at soaps, or actors who like her because she may have caused them to get a job, etc. 

IMO she is a Soapkiller in the ranks with Brian Frons, Susan D. Lee, etc. but I also try to be fair.

[Mona Kane Croft]

This is in no reference to you, my sister Contessa, but:

Dear God in heaven, Mr Lemay -- you killed off Mary Matthews, Steven Frame, and John Goddamned Randolph!!   All three were at least as important as Maureen Bauer, and more important than Frankie Frame. I love love love you, Mr Lemay, but YES, you did kill off characters like that.  

Just goes to show that very very smart and talented men can make absolutely ludicrous statements.  LOL.

Edited 19 hours ago by Mona Kane Croft

[Contessa Donatella]

I believe that he talked specifically of never killing anyone like the serial killer Fax Neuman's gruesome murder of Frankie Frame compared to Walter Curtin dying in a car accident. So, I think he was correct in what he said & if it seemed not to be that may have to be on me for relating it poorly.

But I would tend to agree that anyone can make a ludicrous statement!!!!

 

[Chris B]

I do think JFP did good work on Y&R. Her biggest mistake was the re-design of the Chancellor estate but I thought she stabilized the show after years of garbage. I also love that she made it a point to get Jess Walton back on the show. Overall I found the writing and production values to be strong during her tenure.

I could be forgetting but I don't recall the typical JFP issues coming up while she was at Y&R.