3 hours ago, kalbir said:

L.A. Law was NBC's cool and trendy drama once Miami Vice was no longer the new hotness, but Matlock was NBC's highest-rated drama in 1986/87, 1988/89, 1990/91. Matlock was ABC's highest-rated drama in 1992/93.

I guess the networks and advertisers made the same assumptions about "Matlock" that they had made about "Murder, She Wrote."  In both cases, they assumed the show skewed older in terms of demographics; and in both cases, they were wrong.

Of course, I don't think "Matlock" was as well written or produced as MSW - none of Dean Hargrove's shows were, IMO - but it's possible Andy Griffith had the same kind of broad appeal as Angela Lansbury, even if Ben Matlock wasn't as endearing as J.B. Fletcher.

Edited September 14, 20241 yr by Khan

15 hours ago, Khan said:

 

Of course, I don't think "Matlock" was as well written or produced as MSW - none of Dean Hargrove's shows were, IMO - but it's possible Andy Griffith had the same kind of broad appeal as Angela Lansbury, even if Ben Matlock wasn't as endearing as J.B. Fletcher.

Agreed neither shows ever produced MSW caliber episodes, but they could still provide fun little easy to solve mysteries. I know my grandparents and at least my dad lol definitely watched it for Andy (not to mention the cantankerous nature of the character was closer to how Griffith was in real life apparently lol). 
 

Similarly later on both my grandmothers were obsessed with watching Diagnosis Murder too and I’m assuming that was because of Van Dyke plus the show got better after dropping Scott Baio 🤣

2 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Similarly later on both my grandmothers were obsessed with watching Diagnosis Murder too and I’m assuming that was because of Van Dyke plus the show got better after dropping Scott Baio 🤣

Earlier in this thread you brought up Diagnosis: Murder tank job. 1996/97 move to Thursday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Seinfeld but it backfired 1997/98 when Diagnosis: Murder got its first Top 30 finish. Also backfired 1998/99 Thursday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Frasier and another Top 30 finish.

A second tank job 1999/2000 move to Thursday 8 pm head-to-head w/ Friends and that was when Diagnosis: Murder fell out of the Top 30.

Sabotage Fall 2000 move to Thursday 10 pm head-to-head w/ ER. January 2001 move to Thursday 9 pm. February 2001 move to Friday 8 pm where it remained until the final episode May 11, 2001.

I think Matlock did skew older and NBC was fully aware of that.

The whole point of scheduling it against Who's the Boss was to offer an alternative for the viewers who were not interested in WTB, whose demos would have been strong in kids, teens and young women.

Matlock did well with men and older viewers.

Programming 101.

 

How did I miss this thread?

Now I'm curious. I want to watch Danny Pintauro pretending to be Mona/Samantha.😂

Edited September 15, 20241 yr by Soapsuds

4 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Similarly later on both my grandmothers were obsessed with watching Diagnosis Murder too and I’m assuming that was because of Van Dyke plus the show got better after dropping Scott Baio 🤣

"Diagnosis: Murder" did get better after Scott Baio left.  However, even by Dean Hargrove and Fred Silverman's already low standards, I thought DM was an embarrassment to everyone involved, including Dick Van Dyke.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Earlier in this thread you brought up Diagnosis: Murder tank job. 1996/97 move to Thursday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Seinfeld but it backfired 1997/98 when Diagnosis: Murder got its first Top 30 finish. Also backfired 1998/99 Thursday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Frasier and another Top 30 finish.

One factor that probably helped was all those endless cast reunions that they did in order to attract more viewers. 

I remember one episode reunited cast members from "Happy Days," "Laverne & Shirley" and other Garry Marshall-produced sitcoms, while another reunited members from the film and TV versions of "M*A*S*H."  And then there was the time GH's Leslie Charleson and Stuart Damon made a cameo in an episode that, I think, centered around famous TV doctors like Quincy, Joe Gannon from "Medical Center" and the like. Ugh, lol.

I just remember hating the whole exercise and thinking, "If y'all would put more time into developing better scripts, and instructing your actors not to act as if they're guest-starring on 'Batman,' and less time on THIS [!@#$%^&*], imagine how decent y'all actually would be!"

 

Edited September 15, 20241 yr by Khan

On 9/15/2024 at 12:27 PM, Khan said:

"Diagnosis: Murder" did get better after Scott Baio left.  However, even by Dean Hargrove and Fred Silverman's already low standards, I thought DM was an embarrassment to everyone involved, including Dick Van Dyke.

One factor that probably helped was all those endless cast reunions that they did in order to attract more viewers. 

I remember one episode reunited cast members from "Happy Days," "Laverne & Shirley" and other Garry Marshall-produced sitcoms, while another reunited members from the film and TV versions of "M*A*S*H."  And then there was the time GH's Leslie Charleson and Stuart Damon made a cameo in an episode that, I think, centered around famous TV doctors like Quincy, Joe Gannon from "Medical Center" and the like. Ugh, lol.

I just remember hating the whole exercise and thinking, "If y'all would put more time into developing better scripts, and instructing your actors not to act as if they're guest-starring on 'Batman,' and less time on THIS [!@#$%^&*], imagine how decent y'all actually would be!"

 

 

You might be right as that may have been the case because I do remember how hyped up attention the Star Trek themed Halloween episode was given in that same era in the press.

It was definitely sometime in early ‘98 when I was staying at my grandparents for a week when I heard my grandma say “If I don’t catch that new Diagnosis Murder tonight I’m gonna croak!” 🤣 And there I saw her later on sitting glued to the show while grandpa already was half-asleep in his recliner.

I myself only occasionally ever watched it, especially if nothing else was on. My only interest I had in the show really was just watching Van Dyke and Rowell together, otherwise it was just run of mill whodunits that could be mildly amusing. Something for a very lazy Sunday afternoon but unlike MSW it was definitely not appointment TV worthy. 

I agree better scripts so could have helped the show out. In addition to dumping Baio the show really needed to have recast Sloan’s son with an actual actor. Barry Van Dyke’s apple (along with his son Shane’s apple) fell very, very, very far from the tree that gave us Dick and Jerry.

The only reason my mom (in her 30s) and her friends watched DM was due to Van Dyke and Victoria Rowell.  She didn't think the stories were as good..but had attachments to both leads.

Matlock..same thing...she had an attachment to Andy Griffith cause of the Andy Griffith show..and also grew to like his rapport with Nancy Stafford's character and later Brynn's character (cause she was from soaps).

My grandpa always watched DM as well...never missed it on Fridays

On 9/15/2024 at 12:27 PM, Khan said:

I just remember hating the whole exercise and thinking, "If y'all would put more time into developing better scripts, and instructing your actors not to act as if they're guest-starring on 'Batman,' and less time on THIS [!@#$%^&*], imagine how decent y'all actually would be!"

This always annoyed me. Not as much as it did with Lois & Clark, as the stunt casting ruined that show after a decent first season, but it still annoyed me. I actually preferred the first season or two (it helped that I didn't know what a piece of [!@#$%^&*] Scott Baio was), even if it was never a good program. I remember preferring Burke's Law.

@BetterForgotten

Erika Alexander appears on tonight 20/20.  

@soapfan770 mention in the Knots Landing thread of the series premiere 46 years ago lead to this post.

CBS may have possibly tank jobbed original Hawaii Five-O and Barnaby Jones.

December 1979 CBS changed the Thursday line up. Hawaii Five-O moved from Thursday 9 pm to Tuesday 9 pm. Barnaby Jones moved up 1 hr from 10 pm to 9 pm. New drama Knots Landing is now the Thursday 10 pm occupant.

March 1980 CBS moved Hawaii Five-O from Tuesday 9 pm to Saturday 9 pm.

Tuesday Hawaii Five-O is head-to-head w/ Three's Company and Taxi. Saturday Hawaii Five-O is head-to-head w/ The Love Boat.

The move up 1 hr has Barnaby Jones head-to-head w/ Barney Miller and Soap.

Hawaii Five-O fell out of the Top 30 in 1978/79 and Barnaby Jones was 24th in 1978/79. The final ratings for 1979/80 were 2. Three's Company, 13. Taxi, 20. Barney Miller, 23. The Love Boat, 25. Soap, 29. Knots Landing. Barnaby Jones fell out of the Top 30 and was cancelled. Hawaii Five-O was below the Top 30 and was cancelled.

Edited December 28, 2025Dec 28 by kalbir

@kalbir Interesting find there!!

CBS had a solid Thursday night there for a good 3 seasons or so, but the increased competition from ABC lead to both the Waltons and Hawaii Five-O falling out of the Top 30. The 78-79 season had the Waltons at #37, HF-O at #44, and Barnaby Jones at #26.

To exacerbate HF-O’s ratings woes, both the actors who played Danno and Fong quit, so the last season or featured new cast members (including Sharon Farell). The changes didn’t work, and it also seems a bit goofy to me that a show like HF-O crossed over into 1980. The HF-O day and time move reeks more of sabotage than a tank job.

Barnaby Jones seems more of a tank job but was probably performing more solidly than HF-O. The show had seen a bit of a revival by adding in Barnaby’s nephew as Ebsen was getting up there in age but was on the decline by this point as CBS Thursdays weakened further as a whole in the fall of ‘79.

Based on the 1979-80 ratings we have, The Walton’s ended up at #42, Barnaby Jones at #48, and Hawaii Five-O at #74. Our shiny new show Knots Landing ranked in tied at #29.

@soapfan770 Thanks for the additional info re Hawaii Five-O/Barnaby Jones.

Looking at Hawaii Five-O final season scheduling moves again, yeah it is leaning more towards sabotage.

When Hawaii Five-O ended in April 1980, it was CBS's 3rd longest-running primetime drama, after Gunsmoke and Lassie. Since Hawaii Five-O ended, one CBS primetime drama has equaled Hawaii Five-O run (Murder, She Wrote) and seven CBS primetime dramas have exceeded Hawaii Five-O run (NCIS, CSI, Criminal Minds, Dallas, Knots Landing, NCIS Los Angeles, Blue Bloods). Hawaii Five-O also had the longest run of a CBS primetime drama that premiered in the 1960s.

Edited December 28, 2025Dec 28 by kalbir

I think Hawaii 5-0 was on it's last legs in the final season and CBS saw the writing on the wall. They knew The Waltons was also winding down and that Thursday would need a revamp.

They had to find a place for Knots and Thurs @10 was the most suitable slot.

Sun -Trapper John had just premiered, Mon- Lou Grant was established there, Fri was Dallas. Tues/Wed were movie nights and their attempt to go with series on Sat was a disaster-Big Shamus/LittleShamus and Paris.

So Hawaii was moved to place a familiar show in difficult timeslots and they figured Barnaby would do just as well as Hawaii @9.

Jack Lord filmed a pilot M Station Hawaii but it was not picked up and CBS went with Magnum to use it's Hawaii based production locale.

16 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

They knew The Waltons was also winding down and that Thursday would need a revamp.

They had to find a place for Knots and Thurs @10 was the most suitable slot.

Sun -Trapper John had just premiered, Mon- Lou Grant was established there, Fri was Dallas. Tues/Wed were movie nights and their attempt to go with series on Sat was a disaster-Big Shamus/LittleShamus and Paris.

So Hawaii was moved to place a familiar show in difficult timeslots and they figured Barnaby would do just as well as Hawaii @9.

Jack Lord filmed a pilot M Station Hawaii but it was not picked up and CBS went with Magnum to use it's Hawaii based production locale.

Wow had no idea they had Jack Lord film a new pilot especially since he was pushing 60 by that point.

Interesting thing regarding the Waltons, after it’s episode run concluded CBS debuted the Norman Lear & Alex Haley period drama Palmerstown USA in the Waltons slot as a mid season replacement and did moderately in ratings while receiving acclaim. In fact it ranked #38 ahead of the Waltons for the 79-80 season.

Unfortunately the tank job occurred when Palmerstown returned for its 2nd season. The strike delays meant the Waltons were still its longtime traditional Thurs slot at 8/7, so CBS haphazardly had Palmerstown air against Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley and the show bombed and promptly cancelled.