46 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Not to derail this thread, but I thought there might have been some beef between Bill Bell and Aaron Spelling in the late 1990s. This would have been around the time of the Hunter Tylo lawsuit and in that same time frame there was actor swapping among Y&R/B&B and the Spelling shows.

I remember the Tylo lawsuit, but I didn't know Bell and Spelling had a beef. That sounds interesting. I would love to know what went down between those two. 

 

9 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I remember the Tylo lawsuit, but I didn't know Bell and Spelling had a beef. That sounds interesting. I would love to know what went down between those two. 

 

Yes, I'd like to know how they figured in, if at all. 

58 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I remember the Tylo lawsuit, but I didn't know Bell and Spelling had a beef. That sounds interesting. I would love to know what went down between those two. 

I don't remember anything being reported in the press of a Bell/Spelling beef but when you factor in the Hunter Tylo lawsuit and the actor swapping between their shows, I can't help but wonder if there was one.

I think some people here have never even watched a single Bill Bell episode. 

The original half hour Y&R with the focus purely on the Foster and Brooks families was entirely Bill's vision. With DOOL he had to work with what was there, even though he came in about 6 months in, he must have been a little restricted by what was there in place.

But with Y&R he had free rein. And the first 5 or so years was especially compelling. What made it special to me was the campy quality -some of that leaden dialogue, the 'daring' elements eg Lorie's book and centerfold, the rape stories, Katherine's drunken escapades (enhanced by Jeanne's OTT performance) Brock's preaching and singing etc

As college students we mocked those aspects, but Dear God in Heaven, we did not want to miss an episode.

I liken it to those glossy Douglas Sirk/Ross Hunter movies eg Imitation of Life. You rolled your eyes at Lana Turner, but were brought to tears by the time the funeral rolled around.

 

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by Paul Raven

1 hour ago, divinemotion said:

I think some people here have never even watched a single Bill Bell episode. 

I saw a great deal of Bell at DAYS but I am just now watching Y&R day in/day out so I missed all of him at Y&R and B&B. 

Something very important and not mentioned yet is that Bill Bell understood the daytime audience. He wrote these shows mostly from the women’s perspective. He didn’t forget his audience was mostly made up of women.

When I was an avid watcher of Y&R, all these women (and probably more) were on the show at virtually the same time. Katherine, Jill, Nina, Ashley, Nikki, Leanna, Sheila, Lauren, Tracy, Drucilla, Olivia, Cassandra, Cricket…I’m sure I am missing someone. Closely followed by Victoria and Sharon. These are all complex, individual women with their own points of view, their own vulnerabilities, established backgrounds, motivations and storylines. Some of them never crossed paths.

And plenty of sex appeal- Malcolm, Ryan, Paul, Brad, etc. The men were complex too- but the women outnumbered them and were often the best parts. 

On DAYS he had Laura, Julie, Marie, Susan, etc. All complex and vital characters, and always front and center.

30 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Something very important and not mentioned yet is that Bill Bell understood the daytime audience. He wrote these shows mostly from the women’s perspective. He didn’t forget his audience was mostly made up of women.

When I was an avid watcher of Y&R, all these women (and probably more) were on the show at virtually the same time. Katherine, Jill, Nina, Ashley, Nikki, Leanna, Sheila, Lauren, Tracy, Drucilla, Olivia, Cassandra, Cricket…I’m sure I am missing someone. Closely followed by Victoria and Sharon. These are all complex, individual women with their own points of view, their own vulnerabilities, established backgrounds, motivations and storylines. Some of them never crossed paths.

And plenty of sex appeal- Malcolm, Ryan, Paul, Brad, etc. The men were complex too- but the women outnumbered them and were often the best parts. 

On DAYS he had Laura, Julie, Marie, Susan, etc. All complex and vital characters, and always front and center.

The drift toward man pain—exemplified by the sob stories of the Baldwin-Fisher brothers, Adam Newman, and Billy Abbott—is one of the most dreadful things to happen to Y&R. 

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by Faulkner

As a male soap watcher, what's the difference between writing a man feeling something and "Man pain?" I ask this sincerely lol. When Bill wrote a story focused on a guy, how did he make it not man pain? 

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

Something very important and not mentioned yet is that Bill Bell understood the daytime audience. He wrote these shows mostly from the women’s perspective. He didn’t forget his audience was mostly made up of women.

I wish more people who work in the industry would remember that.  Not just people who work in daytime either, but all of television/streaming.  They seem to write for men all the time; yet, whenever advertisers talk about demographics and such, it's always about the female demos rather than the male ones.

20 minutes ago, lucaslesann23 said:

As a male soap watcher, what's the difference between writing a man feeling something and "Man pain?" I ask this sincerely lol. When Bill wrote a story focused on a guy, how did he make it not man pain? 

To me it equates to when the shows stoped writing the women as complexly, and turned all the depth and attention to the men, and only the ones that were edgy.
 

Victoria is a perfect example of when things went wrong- Heather Tom was fighting against her character becoming primarily a romantic lead. And that is what I think of Victoria now- primarily a character driven by her relationships with men.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

I wish more people who work in the industry would remember that.  Not just people who work in daytime either, but all of television/streaming.  They seem to write for men all the time; yet, whenever advertisers talk about demographics and such, it's always about the female demos rather than the male ones.

Yeah, it is so strange to me. But look at the last 20 years- these business/non creative folks running studios now hardly make any content directed towards women anymore. I think the last decade it has gotten especially bad. Barbie should be a huge signal to them but it won’t be, because until more women are in the decision making positions at every studio, it’s an uphill battle.

1 hour ago, lucaslesann23 said:

As a male soap watcher, what's the difference between writing a man feeling something and "Man pain?" I ask this sincerely lol. When Bill wrote a story focused on a guy, how did he make it not man pain? 

 

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

To me it equates to when the shows stoped writing the women as complexly, and turned all the depth and attention to the men, and only the ones that were edgy.

Yep, it’s usually some male villain or antihero. Bill Bell did a good job in making Victor, Jack, and Paul feel like real, complex men with lifelong psychological baggage, but his writing for them rarely felt indulgent. Bell didn’t always signal to us how “broken” Jack or Victor were or how their behavior stemmed from an effed-up childhood or simply the desperate need for wuv.  But when it came to later characters like Kevin Fisher, who did some pretty heinous stuff, they seemed to go the overboard with the trauma porn to make female viewers sympathize with them. Plus, they had these ‘charismatic’ actors like Greg Rikaart and Billy Miller they used for clout and Emmys. I think a lot of it was influenced by what GH was doing to capture younger viewers and the trend of having ‘sexy’ antiheroes (a la Tony Soprano and Don Draper) that really took off in the 2000s.

Edited November 30, 20232 yr by Faulkner

Ken Corday: William Bell (creator of The Young and the Restless and The Bold and the Beautiful) had a great quote: “Give me a great script, two wonderful actors, and a waterfall—and who in God’s name needs the waterfall?”

11 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Ken Corday: William Bell (creator of The Young and the Restless and The Bold and the Beautiful) had a great quote: “Give me a great script, two wonderful actors, and a waterfall—and who in God’s name needs the waterfall?”

  GOD I LOVE Bill Bell. I think he is my artistic hero. Can I just say that. Give me a Bill Bell episode on a rainy day and I am good to go.

Some think that, in order to recreate the Bill Bell aesthetic, you need expensive-looking sets, lush-sounding music and fabulous lighting and wardrobe...but you really don't.  Like he said, all you need to write like Bill Bell is a great script and two wonderful actors.  And if those actors are portraying characters who want to be together but who, for whatever reason, cannot, even better.