ALL: What about Bill Bell's writing made his stories and shows the top standard?

[lucaslesann23]

As a person who started watching the shows well after he passed away, I just want to know. What about Bill Bells writing made his stories and shows the top standard?

 

Not trying to troll or anything and be like "OH HE WASN'T THAT GOOD!" I know he was one of the greats. Just I rarely find episodes of his stuff. So I hope some people can help me understand. What about his writing just made people fall in love with it and continue to praise it almost 30 years after he stopped? Because I see comments from people who say like, even back when pretty much the most of them were in decent states his writing was still top tier compared. 

 I know he's amazing not denying it. Just sadly never got to experience it so I guess the better question is, what resonated to you most about his writing?

Thanks in advance!

[Althea Davis]

 

1600 episodes (his complete work on Bold and Beautiful) is available on YouTube on the official YouTube channel. Season 1 to 7. 

Just watch and your question will be answered. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by divinemotion

[lucaslesann23]

Will do!

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[Althea Davis]

In my opinion... he is like if John Steinbeck, Dostoevsky or Chekhov were working in daytime.

His stories are realistic, you know these people, you can instantly identify with them. He knows how to build a story, slowly wrapping your imagination and interest, with catastrophic climax in the end. He creates compelling heroes and amazing villains. He understands women and a woman's psyche.

His dialogue is unmatched with dripping sarcasm, irony blended with sharp comebacks and dramatic tension and suspense.

Just look at his character of Stephanie in the first 7 seasons - she is so overwhelmingly intimidating, her words cutting to the bone. Her mere presence making people scared. You can only write a character to be so strong. A genius actress cannot save a bad script. He made all his characters have their own unique voice.

One very strong argument is that he knows how to write the opportunistic valley girl trying to invade the matriarch's castle. This is his best story and he does it so perfectly, even movies like All about Eve or The Favourite are not at that level in my opinion.

In the end, most importantly, when you watch a Bill Bell storyline you learn about humanity and about psyche. It's like reading East of Eden or The Brother Karamazov. You feel enriched in the end. Like you know something new about people.

Of course he has little slip-ups but I can count on one hand the *not so good moments* in the first 1600 episodes of Bold. Really on one hand and it's mostly casting issues and one storyline dragging the other more interesting ones. Also he is capable of writing sometimes 5-6 stories at one time and all of them are good. All of them. There is no filler.

Bill Bell is really not overrated. I think he deserves more awards now after his death and he deserves to be remembered and remembered and Remembered.

Edited November 26, 2023 by divinemotion

[lucaslesann23]

That sounds very good. I'll watch those B&B episodes. 

[kalbir]

Because of Bill Bell's success with Days, Y&R, and B&B, we hold him to a higher standard than we do with other writers, but even he was not immune to chasing 1980s trends, having missteps, and dusting off his previous work.

[Khan]

The most important thing to remember about Bill Bell and his work is how much emphasis he placed on letting his stories unfold slowly and carefully so that we understood exactly what his characters were always thinking.  He was never afraid to take his time with stories, and he was never afraid to allow even his "good" characters be seen in less than flattering ways either.

[titan1978]

As others have said- he really explored the inner person with every major character on his shows. I can only speak for Y&R, and you knew the psychology of those people and why they made the choices they made.

When he was on top of his game, Y&R was lushly produced, and filled with fascinating characters all dealing with their various psychological issues. It did gothic well, and was very much like an old Hollywood film at times.

I have described his style as cerebral and a bit chilly before on this board. It’s always been my impression, especially with Y&R in the 80’s and 90’s before he retired. The characters had emotions but something about the way the show was put together sometimes gave it a detached air. When I watch what little there is if his DAYS available I don’t feel the same way. But that’s the differences between the Horton family and the characters he drew from on Y&R.

[Contessa Donatella]

I've been thinking about your topic a great deal. If we ask who was the best creator & most prolific, it's Irna. If we ask who got the most awards & accolades in their lifetime it's Agnes. If we ask who is said to have had the best imagination it is James Reilly. If we ask what was special about his writing at DAYS it is the memorable nature of the Mike Horton paternity secret & reveal lasting 8 years or so. If we ask what was the most special thing about his writing at Y&R it is that they left him alone & let him do his thing. No one else ever got that grace. And, as soon as he died the show was immediately subject to micromanaging. But also he had the distinction of the most #1 Nielsen ranking & because of that we have to say he earned more money for his network. He & Irna & Agnes all 3 called their people by their character names not by their own names. He & Irna & Agnes also wrote by acting out the parts before they were written down. Unfortunately he joins the ranks of writers who have had women fall in love with their rapists. When Pat Falken Smith was his #2 she argued with him over this - to no avail. He joined with Agnes & Claire in believing the half hour format was perfect. That is the one time that CBS did not honor him. My earliest memories of specific stories are his, at DAYS. Like most visionaries, he held his own opinions & his own counsel to be better than others. He never lacked for confidence. The best way I can honor him is to talk about one or two of his stories at DAYS. Now I apologize for giving so much preface but I am fascinated by him. I'll be back with specific story discussion. 

This is a verbatim account from Maureen Russell's book, the chapter on Storylines. p.82 Moreover, Julie searched for attention in all the wrong places. She fell in love with the older David Martin, and they became secretly engaged. However, Julie was soon devastated to discover that her best friend, Susan, was carrying his child. Susan married David with the understanding that they would divorce once the baby was born. Julie even agreed to act as maid of honor at the wedding. Susan never intended to keep her promise. However, Susan's happiness was short-lived as her infant son, Richard, died in an accident on a swing while David was watching him. A grief-stricken Susan, blaming David, shot and killed her husband!

Meanwhile Bill Horton had fallen in love with a fellow intern, psychiatrist Dr. Laura Spender. Their joy was cut short when Bill developed tuberculosis of the hand. Fearing he would be unable to remain a surgeon and feeling unworthy of Laura, Bill left Salem and moved to Pine Grove. While in Pine Grove, Bill met Mark Brooks, the town doctor. Mark recommended the surgery and therapy that eventually saved Bill's hand. Bill knew he was cured when his surgical skills saved a young boy from death. Bill's confidence was restored and he and Mark returned to Salem.

When Susan Martin went on trial for David's murder, she was defended by Mickey Horton. Mickey soon found himself falling in love with Susan's psychiatrist, Dr. Laura Spencer. Susan was acquitted on grounds of temporary insanity, and the bond that Mickey and Laura had formed in their common defense of Susan led to their marriage.

When Bill Horton returned to Salem, he was shocked to discover that his brother was married to the woman he loved. Working together at the hospital only increased the tensions between Bill and Laura, and one night, in a drunken stupor, Bill raped Laura. Laura soon discovered that she was pregnant, and a horrified Tom confronted her with the news that the child she was carrying could not be Mickey's. Unbeknownst to everyone save Tom, Mickey was sterile. Laura told Tom of the rape, and they vowed to keep their secret. Mickey was thrilled when “his” son, Michael, was born. ...

p.83 ... Tommy, meanwhile, rediscovered his meddlesome wife Kitty and their daughter Sandy, both of whom had returned to Salem.

Kitty found a tape that had accidentally been made of Laura discussing her rape with Tom Horton. Kitty intended to use the tape against Bill and prove Michael's true parentage. Kitty and Bill struggled over the tape, and Kitty, who had a history of heart trouble, collapsed and died from a heart attack. Bill kept silent during the trial to protect Mickey from the truth of Michael's paternity. Bill was convicted of manslaughter and sent to prison.

While in prison, Bill Horton met con man Brent Douglas.

Paraphrase: When Brent was released from prison he headed right for Salem to try to relieve the widow Martin of some of her money. He began calling himself Doug Williams. Susan saw right through him & hired him to romance Julie away from Scott Banning. But, at first meeting Doug fell head over heels in love with Julie. That day a great love story began. ... End paraphrase.

After Bill returned from prison, Laura discovered the truth of his refusal to testify in court and his struggle with Kitty Horton. Filled with compassion and love for Bill, Laura testified before the medical board and got Bill’s license reinstated.

Laura and Bill were in love but they did nothing about their feelings out of respect and love for Mickey and for each other.

Paraphrase: Mickey was suspicious & turned to Linda Patterson & had an affair with her. She became pregnant & wanted to say the baby was Mickey's but Laura told her about his being sterile. She married the real father, Jim Phillips, and they left town. Marsha Mason had been on the show a very long time! Mickey had health problems, heart attacks & a stroke & he also got amnesia & wandered off. He ended up at Maggie's farm. His people found him & Michael would go out there to be with his father & there was a farm accident & Micheal was hurt badly & rushed to the hospital & needed a transfusion so that day Mickey found out he was not Mike's dad. The secret had been kept for 8 years.

 

These 2 stories Julie/Susan/David/baby Dickie and Bill/Laura/Mickey/Mike are what I think of when I think of the excellence of Bill Bell Sr. They are also what I first remember watching live.

Dec 29, 1967 Mickey & Laura wed.

Feb. 7, 1968 Bill raped Laura.

Feb. 8, 1968 Bill said he didn't know what he was doing. Laura said she could turn him in to the hospital & ruin his career. (But, she did not.)

Nov. 1968 Mike was born.

Feb. 1976 Mike needed a blood transfusion.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Donna L. Bridges
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[Khan]

I've always believed that the best way to know how to write/produce/direct a show like Y&R was to go back and watch the kind of glossy melodramas that the studios made in the '50's: not just the films that Douglas Sirk made for Universal - "All That Heaven Allows," "Magnificent Obsession," "Written on the Wind" - but also films like "Peyton Place," "Love is a Many Splendored Thing," "Cash McCall," "Executive Suite," "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit," "A Summer Place," etc.

[Broderick]

His stories were long & involved and generally moved toward a powerful, emotional climax.  As titan1978 alludes to above, the day-to-day writing (for Y&R) was stylized and detached.   If you watch Douglas Marland's (best) material or Anges Nixon's (best) material, it's what I would call "kitchen sink" stuff, where everything looks completely "normal" and people talk in a normal manner, with lots of interruptions and chit-chat.  Bill Bell didn't bother with that much.  He wrote in the manner in which we might "remember" events --- simply choosing what's vitally important and focusing on that.  It's often "cerebral" or "chilly", but it got the job done without any excess.  

[Faulkner]

I wish more soap writers in general familiarized themselves with these films. But it’s mandatory for Y&R (and lots of Josef von Sternberg, Hitchcock, and film noir for the darker shifts and villain stories).

[Contessa Donatella]

@Khan   A Summer Place? Really? Those people are so awful. 

[DaytimeFan]

I have always thought the reason why I consider Bill Bell's Y&R and B&B to be a 'cut above' the rest comes down to a single word: control. 

Bill had a singular vision and executed that singular vision for 25 years at Y&R. After 1998 through to his death in 2005, he still exerted an amount of control that no other soap opera writer/producer did at both Y&R and B&B. 

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, CBS let him. Basically they let him be an auteur. There was only once as far as I know where they ever said no to him. They blessedly left him alone. No one else was given that luxury. Not even close.