13 minutes ago, j swift said:

What I wouldn't give for a five-minute Friday montage of all the couples in town

But, just to contradict myself for a moment, @Khan & @kalbir should we really think of pop music themes as a 1980s convention or did it occur earlier?  When I think of 1970s Y&R they still used orchestral instrumentals and when characters sang, they mostly sang standards.  Also, my recollection of OLTL, GL, and AMC were that they used old-fashioned piano and organ music through most of the 70s.  Then, around the Luke and Laura period, we started to hear more synth in the background and obviously a heavy use of pop, and that was copied by all the soaps.

I think of pop music themes as a 1980's convention, simply because you don't hear of soaps incorporating contemporary, "Top 40" music before then in any significant amounts.  (Although, I could be wrong.  Did soaps use a lot of pop/rock music before the '80's, @vetsoapfanor anyone else who was around then to know for sure?)

Yes, DAYS and Y&R incorporated music into its' storytelling.  As you've said, though, @j swift, it tended to be standards from the pre-rock era.  By the 1980's, however, MTV and similar programming was becoming very big among younger audiences, and soaps were eager, if not desperate, to do everything they could to cater to them.

5 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@j swift 1970s might have had scenes at parties in homes or entertainment venues that featured pop music in the background.

I always figured that these shows were fiscally conservative, pre-MTV/Luke & Laura, and they didn't want to use up any more of their budgets than they had to.  On the other hand, I can think of at least one instance where THE DOCTORS, for example, had a pop song playing in the background of some nightclub scene, although I can't remember the exact song they were playing.

Edited November 18, 20232 yr by Khan

30 minutes ago, Khan said:

IIRC, too, they all were filmed in Portland, OR, where Gloria Monty had a studio and either wanted to tape a soap opera there, or wanted to create a soap set there, or both.

What a nice tidbit to offer up on a Saturday afternoon! 

I wonder if the length of time spent on a single plot is thought of as a trend from the 1980s?  In the ratings thread, folks are always making the correlation between a storyline resolution and its impact on viewership that it lead me to reflect if plots were actually shorter.

I know the conventional wisdom is that summer plot lines and the rise of adventure stories shortened the scope of soap plots.  And we know for a fact that writers were fired because of the perceived need to pick up the pace.  But, if you consider that OLTL's baby switch lasted more than a year, and Asa & Samantha's wedding went on for a month, I don't know if that's true.

Of all people, Steve Bond (aka GH Jimmy Lee) warned in his 1990 exit interview from GH that plots were moving too quickly to gauge audience support.  So the debate was in the zeitgeist.  But, I may be biased by today's whiplash speed in thinking that the plots were not that short.

Edited November 19, 20232 yr by j swift

The move from live tape to editing had taken hold by the 80's and therefore the style of storytelling changed.

It was more restrictive for live tape as scenes by necessity had to be longer-it was too difficult to change sets/scenes.

But tape became more cost effective and easier to use, so we had quicker scenes and more 'mini cliffhangers' as scenes that would have previously been say of 6 minute duration  got broken up into 3 2 minute scenes.

This was also a general trend in TV-watch some 70's shows and scenes feel overlong.

Did Hill St Blues have an influence here with multiple characters and stories cutting back and forth?

17 hours ago, j swift said:

I adored the 80s trend of characters and couples having theme songs, and if we were lucky the actual pop star would appear in a guest performance.

I still hear Lady in Red every time GH Holly is on-screen, and my secret shame is that I still play Christopher Cross's Think of Laura on Spotify regularly (I know he didn't write it for the show, blah blah blah).  I think it's cool that producers updated the organ music of the early years of soaps to pop music in the 1980s.

Me, too! Special songs for differrnt couples & also the musical montages that Jill Farren Phelps practically invented. Only one thing, when I think of "Lady in Red" which I do, often, it is of Steve & Kayla. 

@Paul Raven You inspired me to read an article on the influence of Hill Street Blues on TV.  Besides setting the stage for NBC to dominate Thursday night for decades, Stephen Bochco talked about the writing:

Bochco: On our scripts, we had double columns of dialogue, ‘cause we scripted everything in the background. EVERYTHING in the background. We realized we had so many characters that the only way to service all those characters was to have multiple storylines. The only way to service multiple storylines was to let them spill over into subsequent episodes. So half the time, things that were going on in the background were in fact the elements of stories and character relationships that would emerge in the foreground two episodes from now. So we scripted everything. We left nothing to chance.

Thus, I would agree that multiple characters and stories going back and forth were part of the Bochco-effect on Daytime.

But, we also see the overall 1980s trend of trying to incorporate prime time trends.  In the 1970s Daytime was distinctive, but by the 1980 they were derivative.

thanks @j swift

Another 80's trend was the use of guest stars, either playing themselves or one off roles.

eg Zsa Zsa Gabor on ATWT, Imogene Coca on ATWT/OLTL,Milton Berle  on GH etc

Usually past their prime movie and TV stars. 

I'm sure we can offer up many more examples. They did guarantee a certain amount of publicity.

I thought of another one.

With the advent of smaller and more mobile cameras, there would be opening shots where it was framed as if the viewer was a voyeur.  I recall a shot from Capitol when the camera begins behind a pillar and then reveals two characters plotting in the living room. 

Or this love scenes on Y&R shot through the rails of Lauren's bed as if we are peeking at them making out.

They really took advantage of the ability to use different angles, in a way that we don't see today with robotic cameras.

Edited November 20, 20232 yr by j swift

Those pop songs often benefited greatly from soap exposure- especially if it was a supercouple theme. From the distasteful success of Rise immediately after Luke raped Laura to the other songs mentioned that were not gross. I used to love those end of show montages of various couples in love or longing for each other.

About Monty’s first tenure on GH- even though Bell was the gold standard for a modern version of the traditional Irna style, he had respect for Monty and what she was doing.  As late as his joint interview with Claire Labine in the 90’s about structuring a show, he spoke highly of Monty. For me, I think the show worked best at that time during both of PFS’s tenures as HW with Monty. They didn’t get along, but they got the execution right. Strong writer who understood and also accepted the pace and style Monty was going for.

I have said this before around here- I think the issue was everyone trying to copy GH. It was already not traditional- the family was the workplace, not like other traditional soaps.

Another silly 1980’s trend- the influx of international accents!

Robert Scorpio created a craze! All of a sudden every soap had a main character with an accent! Possibly Eric Braeden deserves some credit too! All these small towns had one!

Edited November 20, 20232 yr by titan1978

2 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I have said this before around here- I think the issue was everyone trying to copy GH. It was already not traditional- the family was the workplace, not like other traditional soaps.

Oh, I happen to agree. And, it's not just you & me either. Many people say this! American corporations are bad to copycat. Soaps are a kind of a worst example of doing so! 

21 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Another 80's trend was the use of guest stars, either playing themselves or one off roles.

I was young at the time and not familiar with her earlier work, but I really enjoyed Kim Hunter as Nola on The Edge of Night.

On 11/18/2023 at 6:38 PM, Khan said:

I think of pop music themes as a 1980's convention, simply because you don't hear of soaps incorporating contemporary, "Top 40" music before then in any significant amounts.  (Although, I could be wrong.  Did soaps use a lot of pop/rock music before the '80's, @vetsoapfanor anyone else who was around then to know for sure?)

My recollection of the music used on soaps before the 1980s was that it was primarily classic standards, but there were occasional exceptions. An episode of Dark Shadows in the 1960s had an instrumental version of a Beatles song playing in The Blue Whale. This surprised me when I watched the episode on DVD, considering all the hassle music rights causes for official TV-show releases.

In the 1970s, Brad and Leslie Brooks Elliot on Y&R had Bread's If as their theme song, and it was used a lot. The song had been released just a few years earlier, in 1971, so I would classify that as more of a "Top 40" title as opposed to a vintage standard song.

Steve and Alice had Softly As I Leave You on AW, but that song had also been released in different versions and sung by various artists, years earlier.

I would say that using Top 40 titles became more of a practice in the 1980s than it had been in the 1960s and '70s.

1 minute ago, vetsoapfan said:

My recollection of the music used on soaps before the 1980s was that it was primarily classic standards, but there were occasional exceptions. An episode of Dark Shadows in the 1960s had an instrumental version of a Beatles song playing in The Blue Whale. This surprised me when I watched the episode on DVD, considering all the hassle music rights causes for official TV-show releases.

In the 1970s, Brad and Leslie Brooks Elliot on Y&R had Bread's If as their theme song, and it was used a lot. The song had been released just a few years earlier, in 1971, so I would classify that as more of a "Top 40" title as opposed to a vintage standard song.

Steve and Alice had Softly As I Leave You on AW, but that song had also been released in different versions and sung by various artists, years earlier.

I would say that using Top 40 titles became more of a practice in the 1980s than it had been in the 1960s and '70s.

Jill Farren Phelps second gig in soaps was as Music Producer at GH from 1977-1984 & when I think about couples special songs & musical montages, I think of her as starting that kind of production number. I think of it as a signature style of hers. You could look forward to it at the ends of shows. Her next gig was another job as Music Producer, at Santa Barbara, but she got promoted out of Music. 

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

My recollection of the music used on soaps before the 1980s was that it was primarily classic standards, but there were occasional exceptions. An episode of Dark Shadows in the 1960s had an instrumental version of a Beatles song playing in The Blue Whale. This surprised me when I watched the episode on DVD, considering all the hassle music rights causes for official TV-show releases.

In the 1970s, Brad and Leslie Brooks Elliot on Y&R had Bread's If as their theme song, and it was used a lot. The song had been released just a few years earlier, in 1971, so I would classify that as more of a "Top 40" title as opposed to a vintage standard song.

Steve and Alice had Softly As I Leave You on AW, but that song had also been released in different versions and sung by various artists, years earlier.

I would say that using Top 40 titles became more of a practice in the 1980s than it had been in the 1960s and '70s.

Thanks, @vetsoapfan!  I didn't know that about Brad/Leslie and Steve/Alice!