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16 hours ago, Khan said:

Agree.  "Frasier" was never a "bad" show, but the quality did decline once Joe Keenan and Christopher Lloyd left as EP/showrunners and Niles and Daphne finally got married.  Still, even subpar "Frasier" was an oasis of intelligent, character-driven comedy in a virtual sea of lowbrow sitcoms that invariably paired homely-looking guys with "hot" women.

Frasier has aged very well - aside from some dated clothing and technology the show is quite timeless.

16 hours ago, Khan said:

2) Thanks to the success of "Roseanne" and "Home Improvement," ABC was rebranding itself as a home for blue-collar-appealing shows, and a show like RFT just didn't fit into that category, so they found a way to bury it and move on.

 

15 hours ago, Khan said:

I wouldn't label it as a G-rated version of "Roseanne," because that would imply that the two series had the same political sensibility, which they didn't.  The truth is, "Home Improvement" was Trumpism before Trumpism was a thing.  It just presented its' values in a sneakier, less polemical fashion.

I agree about Home Improvement. I don't think it had a comparable political sensibility to Roseanne. Tim Taylor had a TV show, a comfortable suburban house, three 'wholesome' sons - it definitely was a Trump ideal family. 

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  • Member
15 hours ago, Khan said:

 

However, I will say this much: LBT was right about there being a bias against her shows; and that's because the TV industry, in general, has never looked kindly toward any series that express a Southern or rural sensibility.  To them, Southerners are illiterate and unsophisticated, with a sense of humor that appeals to the absolute lowest, common denominator.

Trust me: if DW had been set in NYC or L.A., instead of Atlanta, CBS would have regarded it as highly as they did "Murphy Brown."

Reminds me of the rural purge back in the 70s.

7 hours ago, Vee said:

The Cheers farewell tour seemed to last years. I love watching that show in binges in these pandemic times, but yes, the difference is stark. I don't think the network ever really appreciated ADW. We've all talked about it needing to be revived, but IIRC we discussed it being a Cosby rights issue?

Black-ish and Grown-ish are now attempting to replicate that.

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4 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

When X-Files became their first top 10 ratings hit, Fox made a conscious decision to become more vanilla and less inclusive. 

Fox network firsts

End the season in the Top 30: The Simpsons (28th, tied w/ Night Court and Doogie Howser, M.D.) in 1989/90

End the season in the Top 20: The X-Files (11th), King of the Hill (15th), The Simpsons (18th) in 1997/98

End the season in the Top 10: Joe Millionaire (3rd) and American Idol (Tuesday 5th, Wednesday 6th) in 2002/03

End the season at #1: American Idol - Tuesday in 2005/06

 

  • Member
6 hours ago, Franko said:

Oh, also, anyone have thoughts on CBS's Monday night comedy block in fall 1992 being all Linda Bloodworth Thomason or Diane English shows? Evening Shade, Hearts Afire, Murphy Brown and Love & War.

On the one hand, it was an unprecedented feat that will likely never be repeated.  On the other hand, I feel like "Hearts Afire" and "Love & War" definitely suffered from structural flaws, which is why it didn't surprise me when both shows were retooled heavily in subsequent years.

4 hours ago, Vee said:

NBC just letting mediocre shows like Caroline, Susan, Veronica's Closet, etc. run and run always indicated to me a deep level of security with a handful of monster hits like Friends and Frasier that could simply not be penetrated by rivals for a long time. 

Yup.

4 hours ago, DaytimeFan said:

Frasier has aged very well - aside from some dated clothing and technology the show is quite timeless.

Yup.

  • Member

@Khan, you'll be pleased to know I am digging into Designing Women beyond some idle viewing here and there in syndication for the first time on Hulu tonight. Anything to lift the spirits, and I'm running out of more Golden Girls to rewatch lol.

  • Member
4 hours ago, Vee said:

I remember what happened to New York Undercover and Living Single, and IIRC those both went down hard (and in NYU's case, very rebranded white) in '97-'98.

Poor LS.  They never get the proper credit for doing the young-professionals-in-the-big-city concept before "Friends" and "Sex and the City."

If you haven't done so already, I would suggest googling TC Carson (Kyle) and reading all about his struggles in maintaining dignity with his character against a network and production company that continually tried to paint him as the stereotypical buffoon.  It's enough to make you throw something out the old window.

  • Member
Just now, Khan said:

Poor LS.  They never get the proper credit for doing the young-professionals-in-the-big-city concept before "Friends" and "Sex and the City."

If you haven't done so already, I would suggest googling TC Carson (Kyle) and reading all about his struggles in maintaining dignity with his character against a network and production company that continually tried to paint him as the stereotypical buffoon.  It's enough to make you throw something out the old window.

Oh, I know all about it. I think some of us posted some of the stuff a few years back.

  • Member
6 minutes ago, Vee said:

@Khan, you'll be pleased to know I am digging into Designing Women beyond some idle viewing here and there in syndication for the first time on Hulu tonight. Anything to lift the spirits, and I'm running out of more Golden Girls to rewatch lol.

Fantastic!  My advice?  Appreciate the first three seasons, lower your expectations for S's 4, 5 and 6, and avoid S7 at all costs.

  • Member

I mean, I know Jan Hooks is in there near the end, so that's hard to resist. I've only seen a handful of full episodes over the years, though I of course know Linda Bloodworth-Thomason.

I remember we discussed LS a while back around here when the constantly-in-limbo revival kept getting in the news. I think it was Kim Coles who said the one castmember dragging their feet on the revival was 'not who you think.' I hope it happens someday. I am very glad, at least, that Erika Alexander has reemerged in TV (Queen Sugar, etc) and in comics and genre work in a big way in the last decade.

  • Member
4 hours ago, ironlion said:

Reminds me of the rural purge back in the 70s.

Exactly.  Those shows -- "The Beverly Hillbillies," "Green Acres," "Mayberry R.F.D.," etc. -- were still doing reasonably well for CBS; however, the perception at that time was that CBS' demographics were becoming too old and too rural, so they had to go.

Enter "All in the Family" and "The Mary Tyler Moore Show."

  • Member
29 minutes ago, Vee said:

I mean, I know Jan Hooks is in there near the end, so that's hard to resist.

Agree.  Unfortunately, JH joined at a time when the show was on very shaky ground.  They were so preoccupied with weathering the cast departures and building up Julia Duffy as a worthy successor to Delta Burke's antagonist role that poor Jan got lost in the metaphorical shuffle.  Carlene never got the attention that she deserved.

Edited by Khan

  • Member
On 1/16/2022 at 11:23 AM, Khan said:

Unfortunately, the networks saw all that and came to the (very wrong) conclusion that ALL sitcom characters had to be that venal.

As you can tell, I've never been a "Seinfeld" fan.  To me, the characters (and actors) were all off-putting, and the scenes were so short, and the stories so convoluted, that they left little room for character exploration.

My husband JT swears by that show while I tend to lean towards your liking. That said, it occurred to me once that the show was basically dramatized 'stand-up' and that helped me understand the scene length.

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20 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

It can't be stressed enough that it was 60 Minutes and Murder She Wrote that largely kept CBS's ass afloat in the early 90's.

More like from the late 1980s, once Dallas fell out of the Top 10.

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