Ratings from the 1990s

[Khan]

All I can say is, thank God for "Frasier."

[BetterForgotten]

And even Frasier lasted about 4 seasons longer than it needed to!

[Khan]

Agree.  "Frasier" was never a "bad" show, but the quality did decline once Joe Keenan and Christopher Lloyd left as EP/showrunners and Niles and Daphne finally got married.  Still, even subpar "Frasier" was an oasis of intelligent, character-driven comedy in a virtual sea of lowbrow sitcoms that invariably paired homely-looking guys with "hot" women.

[Paul Raven]

Room For Two

Patricia Heaton/Linda Lavin comedy got a spring tryout (6 eps) after Roseanne and finished #10 for the season.

So ABC throws it to the wolves by moving it to Thurs 8.30 the following season after the untried Delta Burke sitcom. It's off the air within a few weeks.

What gives? Why not leave it after Roseanne to give it some time to grow and possibly become a solid hit. Or did ABC already decide that the timeslot was the only reason it did well and gave it an awful timeslot to justify cancellation.

Some of the program moves are puzzling to say the least and I think there is often BTS motives at work.

Different World.

That was truly a timeslot hit. Did they have it in the contract that it must always follow Cosby? The 9.30 Thurs shows got moved around but never ADW. When Cosby finished and it become the 8pm occupant ratings plummeted.

[j swift]

Isn't interesting to think about this through the lens of what we know now about the sexist conflicts between Linda Bloodworth-Thomason and Les Moonves?

I was pondering if Bloodworth-Thomason would have waited close to twenty years before exposing Moonves in today's media culture.  Her shows were slow to start ratings-wise,  but such cultural powerhouses, that I think she would have had more freedom today to speak out about why her shows were not getting promotion or were stuck in bad timeslots.  Seeing how she dominated the 90s then was sent into relative obscurity is really fascinating in contrast to men who were given more chances based on fewer successes.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/designing-women-creator-les-moonves-not-all-harassment-is-sexual-1142448/

[Vee]

I despised Home Improvement, or as I always thought of it, G-rated Roseanne.

[Khan]

Although I do think ADW's time slot change was NBC's attempt to bury the show -- the network had always been skittish about its' tackling "sensitive issues" like AIDS and apartheid, but as long as Bill Cosby was still around and still making money for the network with his own show, NBC stayed hands-off -- I don't think you can blame its' ratings decline on that alone.  The fact is, once Dwayne and Whitley wed, a lot of the romantic tension that fueled the series was gone.  (They tried to replicate it -- first, with a Ron/Kim/Freddie triangle; and later, with a full-fledged Ron/Freddie union -- but it wasn't the same).  Add to that original cast member Dawnn Lewis' sudden departure to "Hangin' with Mr. Cooper," with little or no explanation for Jaleesa's absence on-screen (despite being still married to Col. Taylor and the mother of his newest child); "Martin," on rival network FOX, siphoning off many viewers; a lukewarm reception to the "new crew" of Jada Pinkett (Smith), Karen Malina White, Ajai Sanders, Bumper Robinson and Patrick Malone; and a sense that the writer/producers were stretching credibility to keep the core characters tied to Hillman long after they all had graduated; and, in the end, you had the recipe for a well-written, well-produced show that was getting tired nevertheless.

Two theories:

1) ABC (foolishly) believed RFT could thrive in its' new time slot, without taking into account why it had been successful in its' initial tryout OR -- like you said, @Paul Raven -- that it was now being paired with a new series ("Delta") that was untried and, IIRC, incongruous with the type of show RFT was.  ("Delta" was broad and coarse even by "Roseanne"'s standards.)

2) Thanks to the success of "Roseanne" and "Home Improvement," ABC was rebranding itself as a home for blue-collar-appealing shows, and a show like RFT just didn't fit into that category, so they found a way to bury it and move on.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Khan

[BetterForgotten]

I’m sorry for what she endured under Moonves, but Linda Bloodworth-Thomason always thought she was much more important and talented than she actually was.

In the early 90’s, despite a pre-Moonves CBS giving her work a big platform, she always complained about not getting the same respect or Emmy attention as Diane English got for Murphy Brown. She seemed very bitter and jealous for some reason. There were so few female showrunners at the time, it always left a bad taste in my mouth that she saw English as her big competition. 

[Khan]

I wouldn't label it as a G-rated version of "Roseanne," because that would imply that the two series had the same political sensibility, which they didn't.  The truth is, "Home Improvement" was Trumpism before Trumpism was a thing.  It just presented its' values in a sneakier, less polemical fashion.

[BetterForgotten]

Family Ties also dropped in the ratings when NBC moved it from Thursday after Cosby to Sunday. However, it didn’t drop quite as bad as ADW did - which does tell me that the show (ADW) likely would have never succeeded ratings-wise on its own without that plush timeslot.

Cheers is a more interesting story. It didn’t start off as a mainstream hit show. However, once Cosby brought an audience to NBC on Thursday nights, it seemed as if people fell in love with that show in its own right - even scoring a season as the #1 show for the first year of the 90’s, long after Cosby’s ratings dominance had faded.

[Khan]

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason is a brilliant writer, but she's also a very lazy writer.  People always pat her on the back for being the only woman ever to write an entire season's worth of shows by herself.  However, they gloss over the fact that most of those scripts were literally hand-written, because she put off writing them until the very last minute.

As a result, you have many shows during the early part of DW's run that, while they were very funny, they were also very formless.  And I say all that as someone who still loves DW (or, at least, its' first five years).

What REALLY helped "Cheers" soar in the ratings -- believe it or not! -- was Woody Harrelson's joining the cast.

Yeah, I can't explain it either, lol.

I'm not saying ADW's time slot never played a factor in its' success.  I'm just saying there were several factors that fed into its' decline and subsequent cancellation, and the time slot change was just one of 'em.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Khan

[BetterForgotten]

Perhaps Delta’s claims about the poor working conditions on that show weren’t totally unfounded! Harry Thomason directed a great many of those episodes, too. I always thought his episodes were inferior to those David Trainer directed.

[Khan]

I never believed they were, lol.

Again, I love DW, and I always will, but I'm not blind to its' faults.  The writing and editing could be, at times, very, very sloppy.  It's just a miracle that they were able to get the shows done on time for airing.

However, I will say this much: LBT was right about there being a bias against her shows; and that's because the TV industry, in general, has never looked kindly toward any series that express a Southern or rural sensibility.  To them, Southerners are illiterate and unsophisticated, with a sense of humor that appeals to the absolute lowest, common denominator.

Trust me: if DW had been set in NYC or L.A., instead of Atlanta, CBS would have regarded it as highly as they did "Murphy Brown."

Edited January 18, 2022 by Khan

[Paul Raven]

Re A Different World. I agree that by the time it was moved to lead off Thursday, it was on it's last legs and facing The Simpsons. NBC hadn't properly prepared for Cosby's departure.

ADW ,had it followed the conventional scheduling moves, would have been moved elsewhere in maybe it's 3rd or 4th season to bolster another night and allow another show to benefit from the Cosby lead in as Family Ties had done.

 

[Vee]

I do wonder if ADW's whole cast change/new generation could've been pulled off at a different time, with the network less skittish and more supportive, or less of a reliance on say, Dwayne and Whitley. I remember thinking it was bold and inspired to try to change things up so much, which made sense for the show's premise. In the '80s in particular I wonder if they could've gotten away with it, but it was a refresh tailored to the '90s too and rightly so I suppose. But there was a perfect storm of problems outside of the show, as Khan mentioned, that left it in a weaker position. (I don't think the power of the early '90s FOX block with Martin, etc. can be overstated)

I was under the impression Cheers was already huge thanks to Sam and Diane well before Woody.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Vee