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26 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

I can see her going to Days if she does leave.. 

 

Days is owned by Sony, right. If Sony won't pay her for Y&R, I can't see them paying her for Days. 

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28 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

When was Devon's successful story without Hillary? I've got time. 

 

Morgan is of course going to be gracious and feel differently. I disagree. I think they're great together, but separately Devon has the same issue he's always had. Some performers, male and female, are only as good as their certain scene partners who can elevate them. And the only time I've taken Devon seriously as an adult lead vs. the kid from Family Matters is with her. And I know I'm not the only one. People can bring the heat, but we all know that's a common perception and it's a nuance we almost never talk about on here. He's been on the show 15 years.

 

And it's not just about the fact that Y&R consistently shows no willingness to invest in stories for people of color. That is absolutely true and real. That is a huge systemic issue and very valid to the discussion. But it's also about the fact that - like a number of other soap performers or child actors like him who grow from young adult to adult on a show on TV - he has his own innate difficulty connecting as a leading man, in part because he still reads so young. It's a Ricky Schroder problem. Or take the many, many young men who grew up on the show then got tossed off ATWT post-Marland for not reading adult enough. Further, Hillary's always taken the dramatic weight while Devon is the sap or the vulnerable one or the good guy. There is a passivity to the nature of the character in how he is written, and Bryton's youthful look and performance does not help transcend that. Could it be written much better, absolutely. But at least part of the longstanding issues with any character come from the actor.

 

I just feel like Hillary and Mishael Morgan has had twice the power and payoff that he's had in twice the time, and it frustrates me that she's probably going but he's apparently going to linger on to continue to... what?

 

To a certain extent, I agree but that systemic issue is a HUGE one.  Daytime has always given short shrift to Black characters, especially Black males. 

Other than Jesse (who disappeared from AMC for damn near two decades), when was the last time a Black male character was allowed to evolve from a young man to adulthood in the course of a soap?

 

Y&R, like most shows does not like to write 'real world' storylines, which is one of the reasons I suspect they've experienced huge ratings drops over decades.  You cannot have a young Black man living in a majority white community and not even give a passing glance to the issues of prejudice, racism or conflicts with the police.  Yes, I know that some fans claim that they want no part of reality but the ratings for daytime versus for shows that engage in those issues say otherwise.

 

You cannot mention the fact that Devon hasn't been effective and leave out the fact that he has never had a full-time onscreen love interest ever before Hilary.  Those factors are inextricably linked. 

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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1 hour ago, YRfan23 said:

If this is true CK and DG are probably gonna be out celebrating :angry::rolleyes:

 

With all the drinks on KSJ! 

Edited by ajsp35801

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You're absolutely right. But we can also ask why the other black males Y&R gave up on at least had some semblance of onscreen romance for years while Devon still had Ashley Banks? That to me is where at least part the issue of how Bryton reads as an adult comes in.

 

16 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

If MM leaves Y&R, I don't see her bothering with daytime at all.  With her looks and charisma, I see her going to primetime.  She has benefited from being on long enough to hone her talent and build a following but not so long that she is rooted in daytime.

If I were her agent, I'd advise away from more daytime and audition for the Kenya Barris, Shonda Rhimes,  Mara Brock Akil and Salim Akil vehicle or even in film for Ava duVernay, Spike Lee or Ryan Coogler vehicle.

Even a guest spot on a show like Issa Rae's Insecure would be a great way for her to branch out.

 

She should, if she goes. Y&R has wasted her.

Edited by Vee

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6 minutes ago, Vee said:

You're absolutely right. But we can also ask why the other black males Y&R gave up on at least had some semblance of onscreen romance for years while Devon still had Ashley Banks? That to me is where at least part the issue of how Bryton reads as an adult comes in.

 

And you act like that fault lies with Bryton versus the show. Even When Devon was a teenager and supposed to look and read young, the other teens were getting love interests, he never got one! Why do you think that is?  

Edited by ajsp35801

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Just now, ajsp35801 said:

And you act like that fault lies with Bryton versus the show. Even When Devon was a teenager and supposed to look and read young, the other teens were getting love interests, he never got one! Why do you think that is?  

 

When he was a teenager? The show, absolutely. When he was an adult - eventually, still mostly the show but also partly him. You had guys like Tyler, etc. coming in and he still had Special Guest Star Tatyana Ali.

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14 minutes ago, Vee said:

You're absolutely right. But we can also ask why the other black males Y&R gave up on at least had some semblance of onscreen romance for years while Devon still had Ashley Banks? That to me is where at least part the issue of how Bryton reads as an adult comes in.

 

IMO, because there was an awareness of the issue, when there hadn't been previously. 

 

Also Tyler and Darnell (there were only two of them, no?) who came after Bryton were brought on specifically for their sex appeal whereas Bryton had been brought on to be part of the extended Winters family.  The writing for them had a completely different 'bent' to it than the writing for Bryton's character.

 

To some extent Devon suffers from the same perception that Cassie, er Mariah suffers from.  That's not an acting issue, IMO, that's an executive production and writing issue.  

 

There is a reason why the Glow By Jabot kids were the last group of young people to make an impression storywise.  Y&R has failed to write for certain groups.

 

Also, the writing for Redaric and Darnell Kirkwood was subpar.  Redaric was better at rising above the material quickly while Darnell just appeared to have begun to improve when his character was axed but a lot of that had to to with unsteady, confused writing and lack of direction for the characters and actors to follow. A daytime novice is going to need a bit more guidance than a pro who is coming on from another soap.  Daytime today doesn't have the time for any or it and it shows.

 

By the way, Devon also suffered from a character that lacked direction and was finally shoved into the Tucker/Chancellor vortex where a ready-made identity was affixed. 

 

I mean, Y&R couldn't even write good story for Debbi friggin Morgan and Darnell Williams!!!:o 

If this doesn't speak to a HUGE failure in writing and production, I don't know what does.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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3 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

When he was a teenager? The show, absolutely. When he was an adult - eventually, still mostly the show but also partly him. You had guys like Tyler, etc. coming in and he still had Special Guest Star Tatyana Ali.

 

Honestly, Y&R has this "there can be only one" mentality when it comes to the black characters. Now that they seem to have decided that Devon and Hilary will go forth, Neil/KSJ can't buy story or a love interest. That used to be reversed with Devon/BJ not being able to get story or love interests because Neil got what little there was to spare. 

 

Also, those other young black guys was the show's attempt to give Lily a black love interest, something Devon can't be. I think TPTB are very attuned to Lily never being with a black man as a bone of contention with some black viewers. 

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10 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

IMO, because there was an awareness of the issue, when there hadn't been previously. 

 

Also Tyler and Darnell (there were only two of them, no?) who came after Bryton were brought on specifically for their sex appeal whereas Bryton had been brought on to be part of the extended Winters family.  The writing for them had a completely different 'bent' to it than the writing for Bryton's character.

 

To some extent Devon suffers from the same perception that Cassie, er Mariah suffers from.  That's not an acting issue, IMO, that's an executive production and writing issue.  

 

There is a reason why the Glow By Jabot kids were the last group of young people to make an impression storywise.  Y&R has failed to write for certain groups.

 

All true and valid. But thank you for agreeing there is partly an issue with how the actor reads or plays. It just frustrates me that he's hung around for years making a marginal impression while she came in, knocked it out and is out. I do agree he's a better actor than both Kirkwood and Williams.

Edited by Vee

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5 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

All true and valid. But thank you for agreeing there is partly an issue with how the actor reads or plays. It just frustrates me that he's hung around for years making a marginal impression while she came in, knocked it out and is out.

 

Most daytime actors are far from James Earl Jones or Angela Bassetts but Bryton is far from the worst and he could have benefited from better writing.

 

As I stated previously, you cannot tell me that the systemic issues are not massive when a show can't even write decent stories for two of the biggest Black actors in all of daytime.

The writing for Debbi and Darnell was a big fail.

 

And please don't tell me that you're one of those people who believe that one Black person cancels out another (AKA the 'there can only be one' affliction) because that would be beyond offensive.

His being there doesn't impact her worth, anymore than PB impacted MS' value on the show.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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I agree, which is why I stated it upfront. But I think if we're going to say there is no issue with Devon as a lead beyond the writing we're not being honest.

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4 minutes ago, Vee said:

I agree, which is why I stated it upfront. But I think if we're going to say there is no issue with Devon as a lead beyond the writing we're not being honest.

 

When has Devon been a lead?:lol:  Hilary is not even a lead.  Oh hun, if you think that's what I've been saying, you're way off then.

 

By the way, Tyler was never going to be a lead, neither was Jordan.  When was the last Black male character that was going to be a lead?  Not even Neil or Malcolm were leads.  Not even Nathan.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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10 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

And please don't tell me that you're one of those people who believe that one Black person cancels out another 

 

Definitely not. I just get tired of hearing the claim that the only problem is that Devon isn't being written for. He's being written for - poorly, but written for - and I just feel like the show denigrates Hillary's character again and again while Devon continues to sort of faff about. And to see her go while that take seems to remain irritates me.

 

To answer your latest post, no, I don't think that's what you're saying at all. But it has been said and it's frustrated me to keep hearing it while Hillary kept going under the wheels for Devon, and now the actor's probably gonna bounce. I feel like there's sometimes an inability to acknowledge maybe he isn't as much of a force as Morgan is. I'm not speaking of you, but there's a tendency to treat them as a unit, and they're not. They're two separate actors who are very different. Also, he's still got a contract and Devon never gets shamed in the same way.

Edited by Vee

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Hilary went under the wheels for a lot of people (Neil, Lily, Cane, Mariah, Victoria, etc.) not just Devon.  The writing for Hilary, before, during and after Devon hasn't been great.  Sometimes it's been downright crappy.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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