8 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

I really loved Mac when played by Ashley B. But in retrospect, I realize it was the story that made me love her, not the actress' capabilities. There was nothing special about her or her portrayal. Its the same story set up currently being played with Mariah. Mariah is Mac and Hilary is starring as Britney Hodges.  I'm older, wiser and more astute now. I tend not to go directly where the writing tells me these days. I especially hate being manipulated by heavy handedness.  

 

I liked AshBash too & the third person who played Mac. I like CG but I'm not going to sit through another story line plot, where the black female don't deserve love or any kind of knight when going up against a non black female.

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by MoTheGreat

2 hours ago, ajsp35801 said:

It'd be nice if the show allowed Mariah and Hilary to be rivals on equal footing like Dru and Phyllis. But that's not what is happening here. We've got a clear story heroine (Mariah) with her antagonist and designated loser/foil (Hilary). It's designed for fans to root for Mariah and against Hilary. Dru and Phyllis were never like that. I started watching Y&R in the early 90's after the P2 affair and P3's death. And at that time, Jill versus kay weren't that way either. I'm not sure how things were written when they started though. My point is, you guys see this great rivalry brewing. I only see a story arc written to push Mariah and launch her as this great fan favorite and under 30 show lead. Hilary, on the other hand, gets nothing from this. Viewers will just continue to hate her. And believe me, they do. 

 

Drucilla & Giggly Heffa were NEVER rivals. No matter how many times this show tries to spin it as if they were.

Drucilla lost EVERY TIME even when she was Giggly's BOSS.

 

It was some of the most offensively racist writing I've EVER seen on television.

3 minutes ago, MoTheGreat said:

 

I liked AshBash too & the third person who played Mac. I like CG but I'm not going to sit through another another story line plot, where the black female don't deserve love or any kind of knight when going up against a non black female.

 

I fully admit that if it were Abby, I'd be less annoyed by the whole thing. At least Abby is undeniably as beautiful as Hilary, rich in her own right, well educated (albeit off screen), fashionable, and has some business acumen (even if unbelievably acquired by Pratt's pen). But Mariah? Terrible optics. 

AshBash & Camryn are great actresses.

 

They both had the advantage of solid writing to support their characters but the success of both stories was in large part due to the actresses.

 

The problem is the racism inherent in soaps. As a rule of thumb characters of color (especially Black characters) never "win" in interactions with white characters.

 

The only time in recent memory a woman of color "won" in Daytime was Maya and you see the offensive hoops the show had to jump through to make THAT happen AND the ridiculous end results.

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by DeeeDee

Great?  Hardly!

13 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Drucilla & Giggly Heffa were NEVER rivals. No matter how many times this show tries to spin it as if they were.

Drucilla lost EVERY TIME even when she was Giggly's BOSS.

 

It was some of the most offensively racist writing I've EVER seen on television.

 

You know what? This might be so. But I don't remember it that way. In my mind, Drucilla won much of their interaction. But then that could have been because VR knew how to use her body, facial expression, and line delivery in a scene where is was almost impossible to win a scene with her. But again, that was during the time when I was young and  less aware of and less in tune with writer's  intent  and how stories are actually designed. 

 

I'll take your word for this. I stand corrected. 

7 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

 

The problem is the racism inherent in soaps. As a rule of thumb characters of color (especially Black characters) never "win" in interactions with white characters.

 

 

 

That's obvious. Hilary can win against Lily but as soon as she interacts with Mariah, the writing tells us she deserves nothing. It all should all belong to Mariah. The same thing happened with Hilary vs Ashley as well. I'm not sure why Hilary has been relegated to fighting white women for companies that she OWN. First, it was that lab start up. Now it's GC Buzz. 

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by ajsp35801

Drucilla lost every time they interacted. When Drucilla would give the redheaded cockroach a direct order she would ignore it & do nothing.

 

Could you imagine if she reacted that way to Victor? No. Because Grambo would not have that. At all.

When Drucilla stole Keith Hamilton's business card from Newman? Who goes to retrieve it? Giggly. In a tube top. She snatches it and gets to walk away victorious.

 

When Keith Hamilton Cobb's character created a hair straightener for Jabot and Drucilla (A BLACK SUPERMODEL) took it upon herself to use an untested portion on her hair thus making it fall out? Who grabbed off her scarf to show the entire Athletic Club Dru's bald spots? One guess.

 

That whole debacle with Lily's paternity? The redheaded tramp & her filthy son's redemption. Done off the backs of the Black family who got NOTHING.

 

But this is also the era that had MTS lecturing VR about needing to know her place. Onscreen.

 

Whatever good came from the character was (as you said) from VR's skill as an actress. But it was really gross to watch (especially coming directly after both Barber sisters were thrown WAY under the bus for Ashley) & Veronica Redd had recently been relegated to serving the Abbotts (AGAIN).

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by DeeeDee

9 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

That's obvious. Hilary can win against Lily but as soon as she interacts with Mariah, the writing tells us she deserves nothing. It all should all belong to Mariah. The same thing happened with Hilary vs Ashley as well. I'm not sure why Hilary had been relegated to fighting white women for companies that she OWN. First, it was that lab start up. Now it's GC Buzz. 

 

Because black people can't own business on soaps. Remember that business Neil start up then next thing you know Nick brought it & made it into something else.

8 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

Drucilla lost every time they interacted. When Drucilla would give the redheaded cockroach a direct order she would ignore it & do nothing.

 

Could you imagine if she reacted that way to Victor? No. Because Grambo would not have that. At all.

When Drucilla stole Keith Hamilton's business card from Newman? Who goes to retrieve it? Giggly. In a tube top. She snatches it and gets to walk away victorious.

 

When Keith Hamilton Cobb's character created a hair straightener for Jabot and Drucilla (A BLACK SUPERMODEL) took it upon herself to use an untested portion on her hair thus making it fall out? Who grabbed off her scarf to show the entire Athletic Club Dru's bald spots? One guess.

 

That whole debacle with Lily's paternity? The redheaded tramp & her filthy son's redemption. Done off the backs of the Black family who got NOTHING.

 

But this is also the era that had MTS lecturing VR about needing to know her place. Onscreen.

 

Whatever good came from the character was (as you said) from VR's skill as an actress. But it was really gross to watch (especially coming directly after both Barber sisters were thrown WAY under the bus for Ashley) & Veronica Redd had recently been relegated to serving the Abbotts (AGAIN).

 

Now that you point out the details and story thrusts, I can see it. But I didn't at the time. I watch television from a totally different lens than I use to. 

 

Barber sisters under the bus for Ashley? Are you talking about Olivia sleeping with Brad while Ashley had cancer? I hated that. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

Barber sisters under the bus for Ashley? Are you talking about Olivia sleeping with Brad while Ashley had cancer? I hated that.

 

Yes!

 

Y&R threw Olivia & Drucilla so far under the bus to redeem Ashley (who had gone under the bus for MTS) it was insane.

 

It got so bad at one point Tonya & Eileen were ready to leave the show because of it.

4 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Yes!

 

Y&R threw Olivia & Drucilla so far under the bus to redeem Ashley (who had gone under the bus for MTS) it was insane.

 

It got so bad at one point Tonya & Eileen were ready to leave the show because of it.

 

Oh really. I didn't know that about ED and TLW. Any details about that? 

58 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

That's obvious. Hilary can win against Lily but as soon as she interacts with Mariah, the writing tells us she deserves nothing.  

 

Anybody can win against CKLily, she's sooooo weak. Mariah can win against CKLily.

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by MoTheGreat

Eileen hadn't been happy for awhile.

 

Her initial return was fantastic but everything quickly went to hell for the character once they had her be the recipient of Grambo's sperm. The cancer was the first attempt at "redemption" for Ashley but viewers still hated her so the Barber Sisters were sacrificed to force viewers to empathize with the character (and it worked).

 

Tonya had been struggling for awhile too.

 

She had JUST gone under the bus for Shemar *and* Y&R's only other black female character (Alex) which had viewers hating Liv too only for her to directly transition (with her sister's help) into a Monster's Ball style affair with her best friend's husband.

 

It was SO gross.

1 hour ago, DeeeDee said:

AshBash & Camryn are great actresses.

 

They both had the advantage of solid writing to support their characters but the success of both stories was in large part due to the actresses.

 

The problem is the racism inherent in soaps. As a rule of thumb characters of color (especially Black characters) never "win" in interactions with white characters.

 

The only time in recent memory a woman of color "won" in Daytime was Maya and you see the offensive hoops the show had to jump through to make THAT happen AND the ridiculous end results.

 

ITA with this. Both actresses served the material they were given well. I do rate CG a cut above Bashioum however fascinated I was with AB's insistence on rarely changing facial expressions yet still having it work for her character. I think you can actually put Camryn in a scene with anybody and have the scene be interesting to watch. That's not extraordinary, that's simply knowing your craft and being a professional. I'm not going to mistake whatever written failings have been attached to Mariah with the actress who potrays her, as that would be an error in judgement, IMO.

 

As for the reasons why the majority of storylines in daytime drama have lacked depth when they involve characters of color, take a look at the Writer's room, it all starts with that. How much diversity is in those Writer's rooms?  How many Black women and/or Black men write for Daytime? How many people are from working class or immigrant backgrounds? How many have no relation to someone already in the industry?

 

The writing apprenticeship in daytime is not like what it is in primetime. As far as I have discovered it is quite informal, so insular as to be nearly incestuous and does not open itself up easily to fresh talent. For many years, there was an endless loop of the same writing and production "talent" that cycled through every daytime soap.

I've said for years that there should have been a formal pipeline between the writing programs at art schools, especially with MFA programs nationwide where talented writing students could at least connect with production companies, something akin to the Texaco Television Theater, etc that existed in the Golden Age of Television in the 1950s that scooped up many playwrights and enticed them to write teleplays that aired on networks like NBC.

 

As it is how Daytime serials select their writing talent is somewhat mystifying. From what I've seen a great deal of it relies on nepotism and an ancient type of 'old boys' network.

 

 

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

In a world where miscegenation remains a CONSTANT fear for whitefolks there's no way actors of color stand a chance (especially ones in daytime where sex is the bread & butter of modern soap operas).

 

Tim Stickney said as much a few years ago about his time on OLTL & he wasn't wrong.