Empire: Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

I hope she does not fall into bed with Vernon. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised. It would be a very Alexis type thing to fall into bed with Lucious' right hand man. Which speaking of Vernon, I feel like he might be someone we all need to watch out for. Wouldn't be surprised if Lee makes him be the "dark horse" in the bid for power, and he swoops in and gains control.

[MoTheGreat]

I'm rooting for Cookie turning into a cougar.

[KMan101]

I agree about Vernon. I think he could end up being one to watch out for. I can totally see him swooping on in and the family all shocked over it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by KMan101

[YRBB]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/17/fox-empire-success-terrence-howard/

[Vee]

I think some of the online press, at least, does resent it for being an unapologetic, somewhat broad soap. It does a lot of things in terms of brash, big opera, it doesn't claim it's a mature "drama" and it doesn't pretend to be politically correct or have all of its identity or sexual politics in line, because life isn't like that and neither are a lot of people in the world it seeks to portray. When I hear people crying that the female characters are somehow incorrectly presented - I mean, the entire show hangs on Cookie. Should Cookie be someone else?

That being said, the critics that do knock it don't matter. The show is a massive, runaway hit. And it has so much heart and guts.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Vee

[BetterForgotten]

People watch the show for entertainment, and that's what it delivers on. Despite its stellar cast, this is not the type of show that's going to be winning any Emmy awards or anything, so these critics need to just take the show for what it is rather than over-analyzing it.

[Vee]

I agree for the most part, but I do think Taraji could well win an Emmy. And I think it would be a minor scandal.

[MoTheGreat]

I'm glad they put this one up.

I notice Hakeem is holding Cookie hands, I wonder did they come to some understanding.

[All My Shadows]

Empire isn't for everyone, and I think we've been in a period where the shows that get the most attention have almost always appealed to the same general audience. This show comes along, and it's a hit, and it gets tons of press, but it's not necessarily a show for the Mad Men crowd or the Breaking Bad crowd or whomever (not to say that fans of those shows won't/don't watch this...), so many of those critics are annoyed that attention is being paid to this when there are many more "compelling" "serious" "adult" "smart" options out there. In other words, they can't deal. Hopefully, Empire is just the beginning of different types of shows getting love and attention from the general press.

[MoTheGreat]

I see on youtube people are calling it a racist show. I see because it's on Fox. I wonder if another station like Tv One produce it, what they would say.

Specking of Fox & black drama. I wouldn't mind the reboot of New,York Undercover, I don't see how black people can complain about that.

[Vee]

I think there's room for both prestige dramas and crazy soaps under the sun - I love both. I can watch Hannibal or The Fall or GOT or whatever and still have room for Empire and TWD. They're all excellent, and I'm sure someday I'll finally get around to watching Breaking Bad and I'll dig that too. There's no rational reason to like one and resent the other, but people do it. I think what makes a lot of critics insecure is that the middle ground used to be reserved for stuff like Shonda Rhimes shows or whatever, and Empire doesn't pretend to play by the rules or pretenses towards legitimacy of shows such as those.

Too many critics love to say that those nighttime soaps (including HTGAWM, which I think is pretty bad, or the various dreadful fantasy shows) or procedurals, stuff like Person of Interest or Sleepy Hollow or Supernatural or Elementary or whatever, are actually not what they appear to be, to claim that they're actually very smart because of some quirk of their premise or overall character which proves they're something different. I find most of them very ordinary and uninteresting, but the point is that they had some sort of hook which allowed a lot of critics to pretend this was actually something with a more highbrow or genre element that makes them something different. Empire is simply a soap, it's not pretending to be something more high-minded or progressive (its progressive credentials are its pedigree and cast makeup), and it's one populated by people of color behaving questionably, and I think all of that mix makes people very insecure. Especially in an age where any kind of pop culture criticism is expected to be driven by how well you tout your ideology.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Vee

[ChitHappens]

Mitch Pileggi is digging the show:

"Watching Empire. It's really good! Check it out".

"@Supsi85 @EmpireFOX There's some kickass acting going on on this show".

[YRBB]

*slow clap* +1

Totally right!

Edited January 18, 2015 by YRBB

[MoTheGreat]

Most of these critics are white so they understand white crime shows but when it comes to black crimes to them it doesn't make since.

It all boils down to if your struggling to survive your going to something that you never thought of doing.

Edited January 19, 2015 by MoTheGreat

[London]

Interesting that Wesley Snipes was the original choice for Lucious... Very interesting.