Maria just finished what had already been started. I had thought it all started with LML and her dismantling of the team, but the wheels really started to come off during Jack Smith's reign.

Y&R had a very specific style and vision, and it got very little respect from much of the soap press. The attempt to make it cool and ABC-ify, when the ABC soaps were no great shakes, ruined it.

Y&R got very little respect from the soap press? Umm, when?

Y&R got very little respect from the soap press? Umm, when?

I think they may have gotten confused with OLTL

Y&R got very little respect from the soap press? Umm, when?

OK, "not respected" might not be quite on the nose. It wasn't "loved." Y&R was always seen as the slow/boring/Middle American/conservative Grandma's soap while the ABC soaps were young/hip/urban/liberal/innovative. I think a lot of the comments in this thread reflect that. People appreciated Bill Bell's craftmanship and stature in the industry, but they were never really "into" Y&R like they were the ABC soaps. And a lot of the failures of the past decade have been attempts to make the show into something that it's not. Y&R wasn't for everyone, but as Jeanne Cooper said, "We're still No. 1, guys." It *was* for enough people that it towered above the other shows for two decades. And now it's just another soap, with a merry-go-round of writers/producers who don't "get" it, and that's sad.

OK that makes more sense--though I always see the top obsessed fandom show as being DAYS (which has not got a lot of respect--deserved or not.)

Up until the 80s, that wasn't true. You read soap books and magazines from the 70s and Y&R is highly praised almost straight out of the gates, whereas there's a clear resentment towards AMC in particular from the soap press (partly, it seems because it did get a level of press coverage soaps had not really been getting due to the social issues and college fandom--two elements which, as at least on book pointed out cynically, may have been overstated by that press.)

I think the difference isn't that Y&R wasn't respected, but their audience wasn't as vocal, which IMO is a testament to how good the show was. We didn't have HWs coming in and out. It was the same vision and it never changed. I also think since Y&R has always had such a large African-American audience, they're not as vocal either. Once LML came on and Y&R started chasing the failing ABC soaps, thats when the viewership changed. You had so many ABC soap fans watching so it's changed how people view Y&R.

And I'm sorry, I know 2005 was a struggle, but I don't think Jack Smith did anything too damaging and I found 2004 to be a pretty decent year. Not the best, but these are things they could've rebounded from. Plus, Jack Smith has made it clear that he was dealing with a terminally ill son who died of a brain tumor, so it's not surprising that his work wasn't completely up to par. I'm sure had he taken a break and come back, the show could've improved.

I don't understand why they have turned Y&R into an ABC replica in the first place. Is it simply because writers can't write? Can anyone fill me in on that?

Wait, black fans are less vocal? I always thought that traditionally (though I have noting to back his up) the ABC soaps had a large black demo, as well...

However, I agree with you that the fans just weren't as obsessively vocal as ABC and, IMHO, particularly NBC fans could be--and I do think that by and large that speaks to the sustained quality.

People deal with things the best they can--and frankly, maybe he needed the money for the health issues, but I admit a part of me does immediately wonder why Jack Smith stayed in his hugely time consuming roles while that was going on.

I don't understand why they have turned Y&R into an ABC replica in the first place. Is it simply because writers can't write? Can anyone fill me in on that?

I'd guess it goes back to CBS Daytime execs wanting the younger demos the other networks were getting--but that's simply a guess.

Edited July 27, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

I think she meant that once Bill Bell was no longer in charge, the Y&R crew, Sony, etc, didn't give Alden the respect they gave Bell.

I still think it's crazy she's stuck writing under Bradley Bell (though he probably hired her out of his own admiration) and Bold and not at least co-HWing Y&R.

Alden is no longer at B&B.

Alden is no longer at B&B.

Yes, I wrote that like one day before that news broke

OK that makes more sense--though I always see the top obsessed fandom show as being DAYS (which has not got a lot of respect--deserved or not.)

Definitely, but DAYS, from the '90s until very, very recently, hasn't been thought to be any "good." A guilty pleasure, maybe. The ABC soaps were fanbase-y but also "quality" (AMC, post-Malone OLTL, post-Labine GH). They gave coverage to DAYS because it sold copies, but the press felt good about liking the ABC shows because they had the facade of urban progressiveness and class. I'm sure Sony felt that Y&R was too slow and psychological, that the next generation of viewers would no longer have the patience for Bell's signature style, and that they could reverse audience erosion by "updating" it, bringing in writers who had that ABC glibness, etc. but they lost a lot of what made Y&R timeless. I can imagine JFP coming in, listening to the score, and thinking, "God, this sounds funereal. Like cheesy organ music from Grandma's stories back in the '50s." But the orchestral soundtrack lent the show a grandeur that fans loved. Certainly I did.

I do like that JFP recognizes how important the black canvas was/is to the show and hasn't immediately fired a solid but not flashy actor like Bryton McClure.

Edited July 28, 201312 yr by Faulkner

I can imagine JFP coming in, listening to the score, and thinking, "God, this sounds funereal. Like cheesy organ music from Grandma's stories back in the '50s." But the orchestral soundtrack lent the show a grandeur that fans loved. Certainly I did.

And this has been JFP's only major blunder to date. I still say we should inundate Angelica McDaniel with our concerns about the music on Twitter. She does listen to fans.

I do like that JFP recognizes how important the black canvas was/is to the show and hasn't immediately fired a solid but not flashy actor like Bryton McClure.

Not only did she not fire him - she renewed his contract!