Tyrone should have consulted Oprah. She's been passing as White for years.

If anyone wants to see an interview with Phil Morris about the whiteface story:

http://boards.soapop...ost__p__1046314

There were a lot of fascinating dynamics with Mamie and the Abbotts, especially in the brief romance with John. There was no real condescension in the writing (to me), especially compared to the Newmans and Miguel.

Edited December 17, 201113 yr by CarlD2

If anyone wants to see an interview with Phil Morris about the whiteface story:

http://boards.soapop...ost__p__1046314

There were a lot of fascinating dynamics with Mamie and the Abbotts, especially in the brief romance with John. There was no real condescension in the writing (to me), especially compared to the Newmans and Miguel.

Interesting you should say that, because I remember thinking that specifically when I caught some of that s/l. Jill saw her as a legitimate threat.

Let us not forget that Taylor on AMC also had a disguised as white s/l. Or, let us forget?

Interesting you should say that, because I remember thinking that specifically when I caught some of that s/l. Jill saw her as a legitimate threat.

Even if the stories often seemed segregated, Bill Bell's Y&R slowly but successfully created a family of characters who went beyond token status and were very loved by all viewers, not just brought in for cheap tokenism. It's a shame that as his role on the show waned, they reverted. As polarizing as Victoria Rowell became, I now wonder if she was the main person holding the black characters together - they've gone straight to hell since her exit. I can't imagine how Bell would react to what they give Debbi Morgan.

As polarizing as Victoria Rowell became, I now wonder if she was the main person holding the black characters together - they've gone straight to hell since her exit.

Well, she was certainly the fiery, charismatic, shining star of the bunch. Even at their best, none of the other black characters are going to bring the kind of excitement Dru can, and that radiated off of her and often made her scene partners seem more interesting.

Interesting you should say that, because I remember thinking that specifically when I caught some of that s/l. Jill saw her as a legitimate threat.

Agh yes, it made for very interesting television too. Back when women on the show all had an individual voice and personality. Good luck finding that now.

1:26 in:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/banXtTmOb78" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I will say that it might have taken a while, but Bell more than his contemporaries really grasped how important the Black audience was to his show's survival in the 90's and tapped into that niche, while other soaps started to shy away from it during this time.

Edited December 17, 201113 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Well, she was certainly the fiery, charismatic, shining star of the bunch. Even at their best, none of the other black characters are going to bring the kind of excitement Dru can, and that radiated off of her and often made her scene partners seem more interesting.

Beyond that, I would say the tone of the stories were less offensive when she was there. I doubt she had this huge control over anything, and perhaps it's just because Smith and LML didn't parade in stereotypes as much as MAB, but the really ridiculous stereotypes (blaxploitation Malcolm, "singing child" Ana, drug addict Yolanda dropping her towel for Neil, the unbelievable Taboo story with Tyra and her nephew) didn't start until she was gone.

As for Ellen Holly, I wish she'd gotten a role on ATWT, especially when Marland was writing. He did a wonderful job of making viewers care about Jessica and her life, including going back to her old neighborhood, her family, the family who felt she looked down on them, who opposed her interracial relationships, her career choices, and slowly mended fences with her. I would have loved seeing Holly with Tamara Tunie, especially since it seems like Tamara was able to have the career and respect Holly wasn't given.

Edited December 17, 201113 yr by CarlD2

Many of Marland's detractors argue that he didn't care enough about minorities, to an extent it's true as well.

His ATWT, for the most part, was a pretty lilly-white show. Sure you had Jessica, but what other black character left an impact during that time?

Many of Marland's detractors argue that he didn't care enough about minorities, to an extent it's true as well.

His ATWT, for the most part, was a pretty lilly-white show. Sure you had Jessica, but what other black character left an impact during that time?

I don't think he made enough of an aggressive effort to write for minorities, but I think that what he did with Jessica never gets enough credit. P&G soaps often struggled to do more for black characters than just have them as the loyal friends of white leads. Even GL slid into this with Gilly, Kat, David, after a year or two. Jessica became a more central character during each year Marland wrote for ATWT, we learned more about her, her family, from their perspective. She was never compromised, and she was three-dimensional. ATWT was probably the most conservative of all soaps, yet at that time, the show made many people care deeply about Jessica, instead of just seeing her as Margo's friend, or Tom's friend. He didn't do as much with other characters, but I think there was a foundation he set up (and he had her brother Lamar move to Oakdale) which was squandered after his death.

The discussion of racial discrimination is very difficult for some, but it is real the world of daytime. For those of us who can go back to the early days of OLTL, the debut of this show was a big deal for African Americans. It's hard for some to visualize TV without minorities, but back in the 60's TV was all White, including commercials. OLTL was ground breaking because it allowed daytime to expand it's storytelling and it brought in a new audience. Because of the racial attitudes in the segreted south, OLTL was boycotted by Whites. It was the new African American audience that kept the ratings up and enabled OLTL to stay on the air in the early days. Anyone who started watching this show back in the late 60's or early 70's can't forget Ellen Holly's story. It was Ellen Holly who attracted so many viewers to OLTL, she is a legend. It's sad that in the final days OLTL the show's execs can't bring themselves to honor those who really made this show what it is today, Ellen Holly, Lillian Hayman and Al Freeman Jr. Ellen Holly was the original female star despite debuting two months into the serial, not Erica Slezak. In fact Ms Slezak was a recast, not an original cast member. Like Ms Holly, Renee Goldsberry was another victim of racism. It was the release of Ms Holly's book "ONE LIFE" and the departure of Ms Goldsberry, that opened many viewers eyes to the mistreatment of AA actresses and characters on this show. Many employees are finding themselves without jobs and that's painful, but racism is painful and distructive for everyone not just minorities.

Edited December 18, 201113 yr by Kendall

The discussion of racial discrimination is very difficult for some, but it is real the world of daytime. For those of us who can go back to the early days of OLTL, the debut of this show was a big deal for African Americans. It's hard for some to visualize TV without minorities, but back in the 60's TV was all White, including commercials. OLTL was ground breaking because it allowed daytime to expand it's storytelling and it brought in a new audience. Because of the racial attitudes in the segreted south, OLTL was boycotted by Whites. It was the new African American audience that kept the ratings up and enabled OLTL to stay on the air in the early days. Anyone who started watching this show back in the late 60's or early 70's can't forget Ellen Holly's story. It was Ellen Holly who attracted so many viewers to OLTL, she is a legend. It's sad that in the final days OLTL the show's execs can't bring themselves to honor those who really made this show what it is today, Ellen Holly, Lillian Hayman and Al Freeman Jr. Ellen Holly was the original female star, not Erica Slezak. In fact Ms Slezak was a recast, not an original cast member. Like Ms Holly, Renee Goldsberry was another victim of racism. It was the release of Ms Holly's book "ONE LIFE" and the departure of Ms Goldsberry, that opened many viewers eyes to the mistreatment of AA actresses and characters on this show. Many employees are finding themselves without jobs and that's painful, but racism is painful and destructive for everyone not just minorities.

QFT

The discussion of racial discrimination is very difficult for some, but it is real the world of daytime. For those of us who can go back to the early days of OLTL, the debut of this show was a big deal for African Americans. It's hard for some to visualize TV without minorities, but back in the 60's TV was all White, including commercials. OLTL was ground breaking because it allowed daytime to expand it's storytelling and it brought in a new audience. Because of the racial attitudes in the segreted south, OLTL was boycotted by Whites. It was the new African American audience that kept the ratings up and enabled OLTL to stay on the air in the early days. Anyone who started watching this show back in the late 60's or early 70's can't forget Ellen Holly's story. It was Ellen Holly who attracted so many viewers to OLTL, she is a legend. It's sad that in the final days OLTL the show's execs can't bring themselves to honor those who really made this show what it is today, Ellen Holly, Lillian Hayman and Al Freeman Jr. Ellen Holly was the original female star despite debuting two months into the serial, not Erica Slezak. In fact Ms Slezak was a recast, not an original cast member. Like Ms Holly, Renee Goldsberry was another victim of racism. It was the release of Ms Holly's book "ONE LIFE" and the departure of Ms Goldsberry, that opened many viewers eyes to the mistreatment of AA actresses and characters on this show. Many employees are finding themselves without jobs and that's painful, but racism is painful and distructive for everyone not just minorities.

Thank you, and for those questioning why she stayed with the show if the atmosphere was unkind to her I ask where was she suppose to go, what was happening to her on OLTL was the norm for black folks you don't run from it you stay and fight it for change. People need to stop thinking like this was happening now where we have the Will Smith's controlling their careers back then you took what they gave you or you had nothing. If Mrs. Holly wants to take her resentment with her to the grave then more power to her, she is not a bitter person sitting at home wasting away with thoughts of OLTL she is speaking her mind about treatment done to her.

I'll give you Nathan and maybe Amy (although, I feel I'm being generous when it comes to her) but don't you dare bring up Tyrone, whose legacy with the show amounts to one of the most absurd and offensive stories in TV history;

LOL!! I had no real problem with that story. It kept me watching.

Anyway, I read all of Holly's note. I started to tear up and certain parts and I don't know why.

All in all. Interesting read.

Tyrone should have consulted Oprah. She's been passing as White for years.

Really?

Yeah. I said it.