Goodness knows I can't stand post-Cole lobotomized Starr and appreciate any sign she's not following in her mom's footsteps, but this crap today is what bugged me about Todd and Shorty's 2001-2002 relationship.

RH's Todd is perfectly fine using his beloved daughter as a criminal accomplice. I didn't find that at all endearing when she was 10 nor now that she's a single parent.

Yeah, I just can't get behind it, as much as I like Starr being proactive, that whole shtick, with Todd being more proud and amazed at his daughter than worried, Starr suddenly being as brilliant as any doctor with her doctor language, etc, etc, was just too much for me. And how did they escape through the police station to get to Todd's house? Did she pretend she was a social worker taking Todd out for a stroll?

Soooo Victor was such a bad influence that less than a month after reuniting with Todd, Starr is pulling guns on guards...

Nah, it's that Todd has an amazing hypnotic connection to get Starr to do all sorts of unreasonable crimes to help him out.

Oh, I did like the Clint/Brody stuff... And I liked Natalie finally getting it all out on Jessica.

Even by RC standards,that was obvious. I complained before that RC makes these stories drag out so long partly by doing this--when you telegraph the answer to a mystery or a story SOO long in advance, it makes it frustrating. Yes, soaps to some extent have always depended on audiences clueing in, or thinking they clue in, to what the characters haven't realized, before the characters' themselves realize. But usually that's done near the story climax, not at the start. For me, anyway, it spoils the fun, and makes it just annoying, when we know something for months before that the characters (and maybe I'm wrong, maybe the microchip's not in the ring, or maybe they will all realize it's in the ring this week--but I have my doubts...)

Did you by chance ever watch "Soap" or "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman?"

I'm coming to the conclusion RC doesn't just love CAMPY SOAPY stuff, he also relishes SATIRIZING soap like those two shows did. He takes a soap cliche and MOCKS it far too often to be a coincidence. Take Liam's paternity secret, he's made a JOKE out of so many near misses. Too often, RC wants me to laugh AT the stupidity of the characters.

The sledgehammer OTT obviousness to his writing is on purpose. He's winking at the audience, yes YOU are all so much SMARTER than my dumb as a box of hair characters.

One of the few times RC allowed a character to put together the clues onscreen in a clever way was TSJ's Todd realizing Dani was his daughter in their first scenes together. Alas, John and Natalie have the clues staring them in the face with Marty, tapes, DNA lab tampering and they just ignore them. RC mocks their blindness for far too long and yes I find it frustrating too.

when Clint said Brody bailed out on Ryder bc he couldnt accept a kid that isnt his....what a rewrite. I guess we are to forget that he was willing to stick with Jessica despite Ford being the fathter and tried to fight for that boy

Irene and her minion didnt even try to hide the bomb. It was out in plain sight. I mean at least try to put some leaves over it or something

I read on another board that Starr breaking Todd out of a van or whatever was with TSJ's Todd. Is that true? If so, that's a laughable mistake hahahahaha.

yeah that was 2004 when TSJ was in the role after Blair accused him of rape. OLTL fail. They made a big deal of seperating the 2 men as 2 seperate characters with their own history but now they have RH recalling stuff that happened under the other Todd? WTF are we even going through this story if they are just gonna do that

Edited September 28, 201114 yr by Cheap21

Did you by chance ever watch "Soap" or "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman?"

I'm coming to the conclusion RC doesn't just love CAMPY SOAPY stuff, he also relishes SATIRIZING soap like those two shows did. He takes a soap cliche and MOCKS it far too often to be a coincidence. Take Liam's paternity secret, he's made a JOKE out of so many near misses. Too often, RC wants me to laugh AT the stupidity of the characters.

The sledgehammer OTT obviousness to his writing is on purpose. He's winking at the audience, yes YOU are all so much SMARTER than my dumb as a box of hair characters.

One of the few times RC allowed a character to put together the clues onscreen in a clever way was TSJ's Todd realizing Dani was his daughter in their first scenes together. Alas, John and Natalie have the clues staring them in the face with Marty, tapes, DNA lab tampering and they just ignore them. RC mocks their blindness for far too long and yes I find it frustrating too.

Yes I love Soap (well the first two seasons) and have seen a big chunk of Mary Hrtman, Mary Hrtman which was rerun for a bit, late night when I was a teen.

As you know, I'm in complete agreement with you on this. It's gotten to the point it does feel like satire, and we should be smacking the characters on the backside of the head. And you're right--it completely makes the characters look, well, stupid. There's a lot of stuff on soaps where it is obvious to audiences, but you understand why and how the characters would miss it. But when it gets this extreme, they just look like fools bumbling around. (And under RC, often missing the same blatant clue repeated OVER AND OVER).

yeah that was 2004 when TSJ was in the role after Blair accused him of rape. OLTL fail. They made a big deal of seperating the 2 men as 2 seperate characters with their own history but now they have RH recalling stuff that happened under the other Todd? WTF are we even going through this story if they are just gonna do that

*shakes head*, truly unexsusable. I know soaps are written VERY quickly, but... And RC was on the writing team back then, as was Cascio (with FV as EP).

Edited September 28, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

I think the best soap writing is when you CAN understand where every character is coming from. Agnes Nixon said she didn't like villains as much as she liked when characters did wrong, mean, or bad things but for (in their mind) good and the right reasons. On AMC the past two or so months, many hated what happened to JR, but personally I felt it came from a place where I felt I could understand why he was behaving like that, even if I didn't remotely condone it. I find this often is missing in RC's writing (and in a lot of soap writing--yes, my beloved AMC included, in general).

Agreed. I never gave two hoots about Marty until she lost her baby and then Cole. I felt sympathy for her and then when the conflict with Natalie began, I could see where her motivation was. I remained on Team Natalie, but I could sympathize with Marty and kind of root for her too. They spoiled it by making her go all stabby, but I even kind of understood that. And I still felt sorry for her. I knew this woman had survived horrible tragedy in her life before all these latest blows came, and I could understand why she snapped and why she fixated on Natalie.

You have got to be kidding me?!

So Uh what is it then, Irene also transferred some of Victor's memories to Todd? Or are we supposed to think Starr from the very beginning only had awful times with Victor. Just plain stupid lazy writing.

Agreed. I never gave two hoots about Marty until she lost her baby and then Cole. I felt sympathy for her and then when the conflict with Natalie began, I could see where her motivation was. I remained on Team Natalie, but I could sympathize with Marty and kind of root for her too. They spoiled it by making her go all stabby, but I even kind of understood that. And I still felt sorry for her. I knew this woman had survived horrible tragedy in her life before all these latest blows came, and I could understand why she snapped and why she fixated on Natalie.

I hated Marty going all stabby (LOL!) but actually I agree with the rest of that too--good point.

Yeah, I just can't get behind it, as much as I like Starr being proactive, that whole shtick, with Todd being more proud and amazed at his daughter than worried, Starr suddenly being as brilliant as any doctor with her doctor language, etc, etc, was just too much for me.

Smart college student Starr who knows the chemistry behind disappearing ink worked for me. Pre lobotomy Starr was pretty savvy about weird stuff like that. I enjoy Starr being pro-active. In fact, if this entire plan had been her own idea and carried out without Todd's consent, it would be easier to get behind it. I can buy she recklessly endangers her freedom to save daddy.

But, today was just more of that callous SOB dad from 2001-2002 who took such pride in corrupting his daughter and making her a criminal, too. Since writers refuse to pen Starr suffering any real life consequences, it becomes a LARK and fans are encouraged to want more Todd & Starr partners in crime scenes.

I'd like this time to see Starr get a real criminal rap sheet, and face a real judge who gives her probation but a warning that next time she'll lose custody of Hope. Starr isn't a little kid who can get excused anymore. She's an adult and needs to face adult consequences for her actions. Just as Jack does.

Yeah, I just can't get behind it, as much as I like Starr being proactive, that whole shtick, with Todd being more proud and amazed at his daughter than worried, Starr suddenly being as brilliant as any doctor with her doctor language, etc, etc, was just too much for me.

Smart college student Starr who knows the chemistry behind disappearing ink worked for me. Pre lobotomy Starr was pretty savvy about weird stuff like that. I enjoy Starr being pro-active. In fact, if this entire plan had been her own idea and carried out without Todd's consent, it would be easier to get behind it. I can buy she recklessly endangers her freedom to save daddy.

But, today was just more of that callous SOB dad from 2001-2002 who took such pride in corrupting his daughter and making her a criminal, too. Since writers refuse to pen Starr suffering any real life consequences, it's just dismissed as a LARK and fans are encouraged to want more Todd & Starr partners in crime scenes.

I'd like this time to see Starr get a real criminal rap sheet, and face a real judge who gives her probation but a warning that next time she'll lose custody of Hope. Starr isn't a little kid who can get excused anymore. She's an adult and needs to face adult consequences for her actions. Just as Jack does.

That would have worked better for me--if Starr had figured out she needed Todd out, etc, on her own and done this--not been practically emotionally blackmailed by her dad to put herself in danger, etc, etc. What a great dad--makes his daughter feel like she doesn't love him unless she breaks him out of prison--small request.

Edited September 28, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

Yes I love Soap (well the first two seasons) and have seen a big chunk of Mary Hrtman, Mary Hrtman which was rerun for a bit, late night when I was a teen.

Oh good, then you know what I refer to as Mary was often as dumb as a box of hair and missing this huge clues smacking her in the face OVER and OVER and the extreme closeups of the clues was overdone all the time, too. It was funny to watch as SATIRE but um not good SOAP.

As you know, I'm in complete agreement with you on this. It's gotten to the point it does feel like satire, and we should be smacking the characters on the backside of the head. And you're right--it completely makes the characters look, well, stupid. There's a lot of stuff on soaps where it is obvious to audiences, but you understand why and how the characters would miss it. But when it gets this extreme, they just look like fools bumbling around. (And under RC, often missing the same blatant clue repeated OVER AND OVER).

RC's characters are like the old keystone cops racing around in circles looking like bumbling idiots.

I actually cringe sometimes at how badly he outright MOCKS his characters.

Love Tina!

LOVE the Jess/Nat fight, mostly because someone really needs to stick it to Jessica - she's such a bitch! Are we supposed to hate her???? Ugh... just no redemption.

Liked the Irene/Manning/Lord drama.

This is the first time I've liked Starr in forever... this is the Starr I like, not mushy-gushy-mother Starr. Bring on the feist!

If you just start with Passions, GL and ATWT, you can't convince me there isn't a popular and dynamic actress (within their price range!) that doesn't make sense for Irene. Her part in the story has been under-written and ruined by this terrible actress. I hope if she remains with Prospect Park they recast.

HATE HATE HATE HATED that reunion with Tina. Andrea Evans showed a dark, serious side in her one-episode return to Y&R. Then she went to B&B and made something of a character that was forgotten. Tawny was a big part in making Amber's return a success. She did camp DONE RIGHT. None of this writing, the clothes, the wig is Tina. That dog is not Tina. She's a big joke. Ron isn't even staying true to what HE wrote for Tina. He says he's a big fan, but it's as if he never watched the show in the 80s and 90s.

At first I thought the over the top look was a fake out and after she fainted we were going to get a deeply emotional reunion with Irene. Show us WHY Tina ended up how she is. Show her love for her mother, then show her PAIN for the loss and betrayal. Give me SOMETHING! I was given nothing and Tina is the most crucial character in Irene's story since she's one of the only ones who knew her.

I have been enjoying OLTL, but this is ridiculous. They KNEW how bad Tina's last return was and this is what we get?! She should've just stayed at B&B! I'd rather NO Tina return than this and that includes if the show was really canceled.

If you just start with Passions, GL and ATWT, you can't convince me there isn't a popular and dynamic actress (within their price range!) that doesn't make sense for Irene. Her part in the story has been under-written and ruined by this terrible actress. I hope if she remains with Prospect Park they recast.

I have been enjoying OLTL, but this is ridiculous. They KNEW how bad Tina's last return was and this is what we get?! She should've just stayed at B&B! I'd rather NO Tina return than this and that includes if the show was really canceled.

Yeah, it does seem like they're writing her the same as the last time--which I thought everyone admitted was something of a mistake...

I don't think there's any real chance of Irene lasting till january. She's already gone to Mitch proportions and that can only last a few months (woot maybe we'll get ANOTHING murder mysterdy! Thrilling!)

In fairness, I think Jess held her own considering she must have been exhausted from jumping rope.

Not to mention, sampling Ford's wiener.