GH: Classic Thread

[DRW50]

 

I remember hearing that too (intending to never have the rapist caught). I think they may have said they changed their minds because of fans.

You're right that they would probably avoid much of anything with the character. I do wonder what might be if they tried.

[titan1978]

IIRC they decided to reveal her rapist because they decided to heighten the stakes of the Emily photos blackmail story to cement the four characters as a squad. They were dropping anvils that it might have been Tony, but in interviews the writers, mostly Guza, spoke about her never finding out because that was more real to the situation.

The entire storyline was only done to have Lucky find out about his parents, and so Guza could keep chipping away at L&L. Thankfully MVJ was allowed to handle a lot of it with sensitivity because she wrote from her own trauma and cared about the character Liz and Becky. But the show did center Luke and Lucky too much in a story that should have also centered Liz and Laura more.

I will always respect the way they handled the attack and immediate aftermath though. I have seen too many soap sexual assaults that were overly graphic just to sensationalize the act of rape. Her being grabbed in the snow and then scenes of the empty bench and snowy park was incredibly effective and haunting. One of the handful of GH scenes that has been effective for me decades later. Riche did want to tackle gritty stuff but she wanted classy too. Compare that to the horror JFP and Guza/Pratt brought with Emily being raped by a Nikolas doppelgänger. No class at all there.

Edited January 1 by titan1978

[carolineg]

I think that's more realistic, but have any soaps done a story where the rapist is never identified or caught?  I can see fans wanting closure.  Strangely, I don't recall feeling the need to know who raped Elizabeth because the aftermath of her story was so interesting.  I don't think bringing in Brenda/Emily's model photographer as the rapist was an inspired choice or anything.

I believe Ron was trying something in Brenda's super brief anniversary run.  Brenda was acting pretty selfish and petty.  I think the fake sleeping with Michael and being at odds with Sonny would have been an interesting arc if it played out longer, especially adding AJ/Carly into the mix.   Since it all ended in a few days there was really no point although I did feel like Ron got some of the fire and spark the Brenda character had been missing in 2010.

I just don't think current GH would be brave enough to try something like that with Brenda.  She'd most likely be used again to prop up Sonny (and Jason) and fight with Carly.  If you look at Jason and Lucky's returns the show might start something like Jason vs. Sonny or Lucky being a deadbeat dad and almost immediately back track that and go back to the status quo.

[titan1978]

And let’s be honest. I am sure Vanessa will want to know what the story is going to be. She would never return for a story where she actually slept with Michael and had his child. And she clearly doesn’t need the money enough to just accept anything GH has to offer. She’s actually pretty frugal as far as everyday living, bought her property a long time ago when it was affordable on her salary. Her husband works full time as a police officer, and I think her mom lives on the grounds as well, or did for a period of time.

Sadly I don’t see her coming back except to usher Maurice into retirement or if the show is ending. She loves Brenda and the show, but clearly doesn’t have to be there to live. Still as mercurial as ever!

[carolineg]

I agree it's highly unlikely Vanessa would return long term and it certainly wouldn't be under FV's regime.  She clearly doesn't need to work and was careful with her money. 

I also agree Vanessa wouldn't return for anything but a Sonny reunion.  With Jax out of the picture that seems quite easy to accomplish.  I suppose you could give Jason/Brenda a shot, but I doubt Vanessa (or Mo) would be into that.  VM is quite clear on what she wants and what she is worth so I doubt the show would even seriously test her with someone new. 

I don't think we've seen the last of Brenda on GH, but I don't think it will ever be in presence as strong as her leading days in the 90's/early 2000's.

[victorlord75]

Good for Ms. Marcil if she doesn't have to settle for anything handed to her on behalf of a character that she cares more about than the current regime does.

Unlike a few members here, overall I did not care for the majority of Robert Guza Jr.'s stories, because he too often got my hopes up when old characters returned, only to re-write history for them and making them unrecognizable

However, right around the time Ms. Marcil decided to leave the soap, he introduced the character of Brenda's mother that really caught my interest.  She looked to be interesting, but because of Ms. Marcil's imminent departure, they quickly turned the mother into a mad loon, and Guza Jr. left me disappointed yet again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[titan1978]

She apparently has no issue with a Jason/Brenda pairing. She rightly didn’t want to have a long lost Dante baby (or relationship) while reconnecting with Sonny, she thought the whole idea was icky. Guza was trying so hard with Dante at the time, and Vanessa was very much this was not what we discussed!

She’s close with several people from her GH days that are still there, she knows exactly what the show is like now as far as production like a factory without much soul. Even at the end of JFP they took some time to get to the emotional core, otherwise, what’s the point? Now it feels very much like the point is to have a show to air, chopped and soulless are fine. It just has to be in the can and ready to air with the most generic dialogue possible.

And even if Burton and Marcil were cool and it was a go, there is no way Maurice would be cool without being in a pairing that was working for him too. It’s part of why he was so happy with Sonny/Carly- it broke the Brenda curse for him. Nothing worse on a soap than being a leftover part of a supercouple that doesn’t click with anyone else and all the audience wants is a return. It put some of the power back in his hands.

Outside of his short first HW stint after Labine, I am not either really. But I have no issue with admitting that he is a strong writer and the day to day writing and scripts had actual character in them, even if I hated his focus and stories. Even when Pratt was there to plot things up, that team still made the big moments count.
 

This is me looking at his work from a critical distance, as a fan of the show since I was like 6 I hated most of his work after 1998 and the majority of his last run.

Edited January 1 by titan1978

[carolineg]

I was never a big fan of bringing Veronica (Brenda's mom) back.  The whole arc was rushed and undeveloped.  I do think Brenda's return story would have made more sense if Brenda stayed with Alcazar so long because he was holding her mother hostage and Brenda had to stay with him.  I never really loved the whole I am dying so I am sparing everyone of my slow death by faking a quick death nonsense lol.

Yes, I did hear her speak mostly positive things about the Jason/Brenda pairing and it does seem like she and Steve are friends or at least friendly.  Considering Jason's current romantic prospects it's not a bad idea.

The whole Dante mess isn't even something I want to get into anymore.  It is icky, but it's really a no fault situation for Brenda/Dante since they had no idea the other existed.  It is nowhere near the ideal story I would craft for Brenda.  It's just ultimately extremely annoying months were wasted on talking about this 'secret' when it was a whole lot of nothing in the end.

[Vee]

I agree. He actually got some of it right, but it also felt frankly like a lot of it wasn't written by his team. Sometimes it seemed like Vanessa was just doing what she wanted, lol. She was more interesting than a lot of the cast, and it seemed like Brenda was liable to do anything.

[carolineg]

It seemed like Vanessa was at least enjoying herself during that return.  Unlike in 2010 where she really only seemed to enjoy scenes with Sonny, Jason, Jax, Robin and sometimes Carly.  There was something quite 90's about Brenda boasting about sleeping with Michael to Carly and Sonny immediately blowing a gasket about it, then realizing Brenda was lying about the one night stand.  The little moment on the plane where you weren't sure Brenda was actually telling the truth about Michael was a nice little detail, but again 12 years later it doesn't matter much.  I doubt the show would ever bring that up today.

[DRW50]

@victorlord75 I'm with you all the way on the Guza era...I do get why people miss that period, of course.

I also really liked Jennifer Hetrick's work as Veronica, and I thought it was one of Brenda's stronger stories in that time period. I do think a lot of the criticisms of the story are valid, especially as it was Brenda's exit storyline for several years.

[dc11786]

Reading that Tony was in contention to be Liz's rapist makes watching entire episodes a no for me. I really can't stomach a writing team that thought that was a solid idea. I don't think there's a single scenario I can think of where that would be possible outside complete and total break from reality (on the part of Tony or the audience, I'm not sure). 

I think a lot of the complaints about Tony and Bobbie are fair. Tony and Bobbie were not smoldering in sexual chemistry. The basis of their relationship was their ongoing friendship that turned into a romance. This was the story. It was about Tony loving Bobbie despite Bobbie's (sometimes neurotic) insecurities regarding her past as a teenage sex worker. They were a skilled pair working together in the OR and in raising their kids together. I think there is a great deal of the audience that finds that sort of relationship appealing. I don't think that every couple can drive grand romantic storylines involving third parties and super villains all the time. Sometimes there is comfort just watching two suburban parents try to find their way back together after one of the most painful periods of their lives as individualss, and as a couple.

Do I think there would have needed to be work to be done? Absolutely. Less so that Carly and Tony didn't actually have a child together. If they had, I don't know if Bobbie and Tony could have reunited. That would have played too much on Bobbie's own feelings of self worth in her relationship based on her infertility issues. I think her thinking the baby was Tony's was an obstacle to overcome.

If it were me, I would have had Bobbie be the one to bring Tony back from the depths of hell he had allowed himself to succumb to during that period because she knew that B.J. wouldn't want her to let Tony end up like that. Also, Bobbie would see it as a way of relieving her own guilty. I would have had Tony kicked off the stay of GH (was he?) and end up working in a free clinic (maybe on Charles Street). I would have there be conflict between Tony and the staff who think that the disgraced Tony Jones is only there because he has nowhere else to go (which is probably true). I would slowly have Tony win over the administrator of the clinic (a Mary Mae Ward type) and build a relationship with a rough around the edges doctor who wants to give back to his community. Eventually, the utter violence of Sonny and Jason's world would find its way into the clinic (first when some new employee starts using it to move drugs and later when a turf war leads to a standoff at the clinic). 

Bobbie and Tony would both continue to live in the brownstone (on different levels) for Lucas' sake. Tiffany would come in for an arc to play Auntie Mame to Lucas with Lucas contemplating living with her and Sean and their family permanently. The threat of losing Lucas would bring them together and they would agree to go to counselling to better co-parent. Tiffany would reluctantly take Lucas for the summer, but Lucas would return (probably slightly older). 

To give the story some necessary drama, I would have the turf war play out at the clinic and for Tony's young protege to be in the line of a gangster's bullet only for Tony to step in and take the bullet, saving the young man's life. Tony would go into surgery, it would be touch and go, and then you have Bobbie confess that she still loves him. In recovery, people would start to warm to Tony again and Tony would be offered to return to GH, but he would elect to run the clinic. Tony  would speak about how the Charles Street Clinic gave him a second chance (even if it was reluctantly) and he wants to continue to oversee its success. 

But what I want probably isn't what the majority of viewers would have wanted.

[Khan]

Listen, I stand by my belief that Tony and Bobbie were too far gone ever to reunite, but if a scenario like yours had played out, with proper handling and time, I would've been willing at least to see where a Tony/Bobbie reunion could've gone!  Good work!

[titan1978]

There is a lot of compelling stuff there! I have wanted the return of the waterfront clinic for years. But I also prefer when there are multiple income levels for the characters being played out, not everyone is rich or at least more than comfortable.

I was watching a lot back when Tony and Bobbie got together. It was exactly as you said, they were friends that fell in love. Bobbie finally got to have children in her life, and the stability she was striving for. It’s not just her teenage past she was running from. Roy was killed, Brock abused her and was killed, Jake betrayed her, and Scotty was never going to be stability for her, he was still pretty broken. The audience wanted happiness for Bobbie, Jackie was incredibly popular and had always been central in the more grounded part of the show. She still made mistakes, like the whole Lucas debacle with Cheryl and Tiffany. But you understood her, and she always still had that fire.

I know Jackie wasn’t really a fan of the setup of the Damian storyline. But when I was watching it live and again later, especially after seeing so much early Luke and Bobbie, it’s pretty easy to see how Luke reappearing would push her off her axis a bit. They were devoted to each other and both also pushed the other’s buttons.

[Vee]

I do think upon all of our reflection that Tony was likely only ever meant to be a red herring, not the rapist - I think the most likely possibility the network vetoed was the one we all now remember that Khan mentioned, where the rapist was never caught.

I also liked Jennifer Hetrick as Veronica, which was very different from her Trek role. I do think the story was very rushed, of course.