I'm not sure if it's all that understandable to Viki that Todd would play a large role in almost killing one daughter and allowing her other daughter to go nuts, leading to a stillbirth and the possible death of this daughter. I don't believe that Viki would just accept this because Todd is damaged. And the show never really had Viki process any of this. They had her angry at him briefly, and then as soon as Viki needed to serve as a Todd/Tea prop, she got over it.

I'm not sure why Viki would be one iota surprised Todd was fine with Natalie dying as she knows he intended to hand her heart over to Mitch/Victor and that INHUMANITY came under Roger's Todd. Viki wasn't even allowed to be angry with him really as she was needed to serve as a Todd/Blair prop, so she got over it fast. She also got over fast Roger's Todd throwing out newborn Jack like trash as she was again needed to prop up Todd/Blair.

As for RH's Todd claiming he would have stepped in to help Jessica, I believe he believes that but the truth is his Todd put his own selfish needs ahead of others repeatedly. TSJ's Todd exploited Jessica's mental illness to cover holding Marty. RH's Todd exploited Viki's DID to cover his fake DID. Both are equally callous and selfish behavior.

Edited August 16, 201114 yr by TeamEric

I'm not sure why Viki would be one iota surprised Todd was fine with Natalie dying as she know he intended to hand her heart over to Mitch/Victor and that INHUMANITY came under Roger's Todd. Viki wasn't even allowed to be angry with him really as she was needed to serve as a Todd/Blair prop, so she got over it fast. She also got over fast Roger's Todd throwing out newborn Jack like trash as she was again needed to prop up Todd/Blair.

If she'd said this at the time then I could have believed it - why should I be angry with him when he's always done this? Doesn't that say more about me than about what I expect from him? - Instead she was briefly angry and then within a few months she was dusting off her Todd/Tea scripts from 1998.

If Viki really does have zero problem with Todd sending both of her daughters to death and despair, then it kind of makes their relationship completely hollow.

If Viki really does have zero problem with Todd sending both of her daughters to death and despair, then it kind of makes their relationship completely hollow.

It's been a common complaint that Viki has shown preference to Todd over her own children many times. Most particularly Kevin. It's still a mystery to me, and one that I believe deserves to be addressed in more depth -- alas there is neither the time, and I do not believe Ron C. has either the skill or the inclination to tell this kind of story.

^^^I just watched an old Todd scene where RH yells at Viki in similar fashion at the Sun. It's very very ironic to read this OMG RH's Todd would never do this crap. I'll be honest I see a lot of selective memory employed and a great deal of whitewashing of RH's Todd's own horrendously callous treatment of those he loved. For me, nothing TSJ did or said topped "get rid of IT" as the defining de-humanizing moment in Todd's entire run. It was worse than the gang rape for me for Todd to suddenly turn on an innocent child when he had always felt so drawn to kids.

Anyhoo, if my BFF kissed my husband then acted all nonchalant, I'd have slapped her. Téa was more restrained than I expected. But I am very glad those scenes happened because it was overdue reminder that Blair cannot be trusted. Blair needling her today was a very needed reminder this woman has never had any female friends for a reason.

Biased much?

Focused on a poster versus show much?

It's been a common complaint that Viki has shown preference to Todd over her own children many times. Most particularly Kevin. It's still a mystery to me, and one that I believe deserves to be addressed in more depth -- alas there is neither the time, and I do not believe Ron C. has either the skill or the inclination to tell this kind of story.

I don't even think it's anything deliberate in the writing. I think the show just has its preferences and doesn't care about what the characters look like. For instance, the idiocy of Viki and Clint allowing "teen" Jess to go to high school, which neither one of them ever would have done, and which helped lead up to the scene where Ford did/didn't rape Tess/TeenJess/Jess.

If she'd said this at the time then I could have believed it - why should I be angry with him when he's always done this? Doesn't that say more about me than about what I expect from him? - Instead she was briefly angry and then within a few months she was dusting off her Todd/Tea scripts from 1998.

If Viki really does have zero problem with Todd sending both of her daughters to death and despair, then it kind of makes their relationship completely hollow.

Actually, Natalie tossed the heart thing into Viki's face and she made lame excuses in record time because she was desperately needed in Todd/Blair prop mode.

At least with Tess/Natalie stuff in 2008, Viki actually turned on Todd for over 3 months.

It's not that Viki has ZERO problem with Todd's horrendous actions. She does call him out for it but she sees his hurting others much like she sees Niki/Tori's violence, a byproduct of horrible abuse.

If Viki turns on Todd, she feels she's turning on herself. That likely doesn't make sense to those who were never abused themselves.

Fair enough. You make good points.

Yes, and when Viki suddenly turned on a dime from condemning Todd for the rapemance to promoting his reunion with Tea, we can call that "Todd/Tea prop mode." But the truth is that's not what it was, Eric. It was "Todd prop mode," because in the end, neither woman was the priority at that time - preserving Todd and TSJ's primacy on the show was priority. They couldn't deal with what Todd had done and how irredeemable it made him, so they made Viki forget about it. Same thing they did with the lazy writing for the Jack storyline, same difference, just different Todds and different love interests. The constant was Todd and the bad writing. Except in the case of the Jack story, however repugnant it was, and it was awful, they did not need to erase it from continuity.

Blair vs. Tea does not matter when it comes to the rapemance - he wasn't with either of them and he raped again, or so we thought at the time. That's reprehensible and unforgivable and I abandoned the character utterly at that point. I could not have cared less, and I'm sure I wasn't alone. What do you say to the fans who loved him with Tea, or didn't like him with either Tea or Blair and still found that reprehensible and unforgivable and horrendously OOC for Todd? "Well, you should've given up on him over the Jack story instead?" You clearly didn't give up on him over either incident, because you are an ardent and passionate fan of TSJ's Todd and Tea and you apparently decided to ignore those incidents because they happened when Tea was offscreen or it wasn't her kid, or he wasn't with her, even if she did defend him for the rapemance and hounded his victim on the stand to see to it that she got no justice whatsoever while Todd walked free with money and a happy ending. You keep saying the old story was far worse, because you refuse to talk about the rapemance. Okay, what if it had been Tea's baby? What if it had been Danielle instead of Jack? Or what if he'd left Tea instead of Blair to go off, kick back, and re-rape Marty? Would it still be water under the bridge or our fault for expecting better of the character?

You don't seem to understand that when people say they turned on TSJ's Todd over the rapemance it is not about something as petty as Blair or Tea - it's about a core violation of the character. That's what Tarty was, that's why the show has highlighted it in the last week with RH's Todd confronting everyone about it, and that's why TSJ's character is now no longer Todd Manning and those eight years have been stricken from the character's history. It was a fatal error.

Edited August 16, 201114 yr by Vee

You don't seem to understand that when people say they turned on TSJ's Todd over the rapemance it is not about something as petty as Blair or Tea - it's about a core violation of the character. That's what Tarty was, that's why the show has highlighted it in the last week with RH's Todd confronting everyone about it, and that's why TSJ's character is now no longer Todd Manning and those eight years have been stricken from the character's history. It was a fatal error.

Honestly, I didn't turn on Todd over the rapemance. I must have drunk the koolaid because I understood what he was doing and why even though it was so wrong. I knew why it made sense to Todd with his twisted logic. And his remorse or sense of loss when he got busted over it and his subsequent suicide attempt worked for me. It was his cavalier and dismissive attitude toward Marty thereafter that turned me off. He basically turned a page and after being driven almost to suicide in horror of what he'd done, he then behaved as if "rape" and victimizing Marty was just one of those things that people made too much of. That became his pervasive attitude toward everything that wasn't Tea in these last years.

He basically turned a page and after being driven almost to suicide in horror of what he'd done, he then behaved as if "rape" and victimizing Marty was just one of those things that people made too much of.

Actually, rhinohide, I would chalk that up to a defense mechanism on Todd's part. For the first time in a very long time, Todd (or "Todd") began to look at himself as something other than a monster. Todd believed he was on the path toward true redemption; and he believed, too, that the love that an unwitting Marty gave him was responsible. However, when Marty and others couldn't see past the outrageous lies - even after he had attempted suicide in an act of true remorse and contrition - he chose to make light of the entire ordeal in order to prove to everyone how little it had actually affected him.

Whether played by TSJ or RH, Todd always has been someone who wants to change, but who doesn't know how.

Edited August 16, 201114 yr by Khan

Khan your last sentence sums it all up perfectly.

Well, here's something else I can sum up, lol:

Blair and Tea, IMO, have two things in common: they both love Todd...and they both enable his awful behavior. (Viki, too.) That's why the whole TnB/TnT debate has long escaped my comprehension. Because - sorry, sports fans - it's really two sides of the same damn coin.

Honestly, I didn't turn on Todd over the rapemance. I must have drunk the koolaid because I understood what he was doing and why even though it was so wrong. I knew why it made sense to Todd with his twisted logic. And his remorse or sense of loss when he got busted over it and his subsequent suicide attempt worked for me. It was his cavalier and dismissive attitude toward Marty thereafter that turned me off. He basically turned a page and after being driven almost to suicide in horror of what he'd done, he then behaved as if "rape" and victimizing Marty was just one of those things that people made too much of. That became his pervasive attitude toward everything that wasn't Tea in these last years.

The suicide attempt never worked for me because it was so poorly put together. He was fine and dandy in no time at all and then Viki and his kids fawned over him. It just felt like a cheap attempt to remind viewers that Todd was the one we were supposed to sympathize with, since the redeemed by raping story hadn't gotten the reaction they'd expected.

Why do I have a feeling they're going to do a redux of Michael and Marcie with Rex and Gigi? This will also "redeem" Jack with the snap of a finger

Jesus, the David and Dorian camp started the episode right off

Aubrey, Cutter and Cristian

ROXY!

Jesus, so there's the answer. They're brothers. Make that twin boys.

Nat, put down the Gigi whore lip gloss!

Edited August 16, 201114 yr by alexisfan07