8 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

We were offered a lot of great drama in the 1950s and '60s, but yes: I do think the soaps reached their creative peak in the 1970s.

The science-fiction dreck, the dismissal of the vets, the low-brow camp, the characters being reduced to caricatures, and the shallow focus on glam, glitz, temper tantrums and adolescent antic severely crippled the genre in the 1980s. It has never recovered, IMHO.

In the golden days of the 1970s, I didn't appreciate how blessed we, the  viewers, were.

You summed up completely all that's wrong with the genre. I too think the 70s were the apex for the genre even though I'm a huge fan of the 30s through the 60s. And even though I think they were kind of weak decades for my two favorite soaps (TGL, ATWT). However, for the genre itself and for most other soaps, the 70s were the best decade. 

Of course, the '80's will always hold a special place in my heart, because that's when I was first introduced to the genre through the several soaps I watched with my mother.  But I do think there was a theatrical quality to the writing for most soaps in the '70's that has been sadly missing since then.

Back then, it seems, soaps had writers who had come up through the stage and through radio, so special attention was placed on how dialogue was tailored specifically to character and to actor.  Nowadays, when you listen to the dialogue on B&B, DAYS, GH, Y&R, it all sounds so clunky and interchangeable, written more to be quoted on social media (by writers whose knowledge of good writing comes only through other TV shows) than to illuminate characters' feelings and motivations.

If I had one piece of advice for anyone working today in soaps or who wants to work in soaps, it would be this: READ.  Read books.  Read plays.  Read short stories.  Read newspapers and magazines and even billboards you pass along the highway, if that's what strikes your fancy.  But read.  (And for God's sake: READ YOUR SCRIPTS ALOUD.  Your ears are your best guide to knowing what sounds stupid coming out of someone's mouth.)

Edited January 10Jan 10 by Khan

2 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

You summed up completely all that's wrong with the genre. I too think the 70s were the apex for the genre even though I'm a huge fan of the 30s through the 60s. And even though I think they were kind of weak decades for my two favorite soaps (TGL, ATWT). However, for the genre itself and for most other soaps, the 70s were the best decade. 

Sorry. Edit button doesn't seem to work. I meant to say the 70s was a weak decade for my two favorite soaps (GL and ATWT). However, it was the best decade for most other soaps. 

2 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Sorry. Edit button doesn't seem to work. 

I've went back to edit posts in recent weeks, and the edit feature seems to only work for a few hours maybe after a post and then you can no longer edit it. Seems to be a recent change here.

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 9/30/74-10/4/74 & 10/7/74-10/11/74:

4 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

You summed up completely all that's wrong with the genre. I too think the 70s were the apex for the genre even though I'm a huge fan of the 30s through the 60s. And even though I think they were kind of weak decades for my two favorite soaps (TGL, ATWT). However, for the genre itself and for most other soaps, the 70s were the best decade. 

Yes, both TGL and ATWT saw some weak years in the 1970s, but at least the shows were not both atrocious at the same time. TGL's initial slump occurred in the  early part of the decade, while ATWT's first decline happened towards the end. Both soaps had been doing quite well before then, and both rebounded, more or less, within a few years. 

Compare that to later on, when TGL remained in the toilet from the mid-1990s to its cancellation in 2009 (after recovering briefly from a horrific run in the '80s), and ATWT was weak-to-awful from 1993 to its death in 2010. The fact that Chris Goutman was allowed to remain at ATWT from 1999 to 2010, despite his atrocious handling of the series, astounds me. 

ATWT's being saddled with writers such as Stern and Black, Leah Laiman, Hogan Sheffer and Jean Passanante, and TGL's misfortune in having the likes of Jeff Ryder and Ellen Weston as scribes? Yikes! Only the enduring loyalty of die-hard fans helped these soaps survive (if on life support) as long as they did.

36 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yes, both TGL and ATWT saw some weak years in the 1970s, but at least the shows were not both atrocious at the same time. TGL's initial slump occurred in the  early part of the decade, while ATWT's first decline happened towards the end. Both soaps had been doing quite well before then, and both rebounded, more or less, within a few years. 

Compare that to later on, when TGL remained in the toilet from the mid-1990s to its cancellation in 2009 (after recovering briefly from a horrific run in the '80s), and ATWT was weak-to-awful from 1993 to its death in 2010. The fact that Chris Goutman was allowed to remain at ATWT from 1999 to 2010, despite his atrocious handling of the series, astounds me. 

ATWT's being saddled with writers such as Stern and Black, Leah Laiman, Hogan Sheffer and Jean Passanante, and TGL's misfortune in having the likes of Jeff Ryder and Ellen Weston as scribes? Yikes! Only the enduring loyalty of die-hard fans helped these soaps survive (if on life support) as long as they did.

Yes, I agree. The first part of the decade was harder on TGL and the latter part of the decade was harder on ATWT. Don't get me wrong. Even though I consider the 70s a weak decade for those shows compared to the prior decades, both shows were GREAT in the 70s compared to what came after (except the Marland years of ATWT). 

21 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Yes, I agree. The first part of the decade was harder on TGL and the latter part of the decade was harder on ATWT. Don't get me wrong. Even though I consider the 70s a weak decade for those shows compared to the prior decades, both shows were GREAT in the 70s compared to what came after (except the Marland years of ATWT). 

100%.👏👍

Even the worst of the 1970s was better than what soap viewers have had to endure in later decades.

What's most egregious is, standards have deteriorated to the point that even damaging soap-hacks like Hogan Sheffer, Ron Carlivati and Jean Passanante have won awards for their material!

Edited January 10Jan 10 by vetsoapfan

21 hours ago, will81 said:

The kids go back to school and Y&R drops. I wonder what it's demo's were, especially in the summer. Was it the young person's soap back then? 

Imagine that the children of summer '74 were exposed to Kay sleeping with stable boy Jeff and Gwen prostituting herself out of her apartment!! 🤣

3 hours ago, Khan said:

Of course, the '80's will always hold a special place in my heart, because that's when I was first introduced to the genre through the several soaps I watched with my mother.  But I do think there was a theatrical quality to the writing for most soaps in the '70's that has been sadly missing since then.

I've always contended that it was the intimate, personal, theatrical quality of soaps that first attracted audiences to soaos, and kept us glued to them for the first sevveral decades f their existence.

3 hours ago, Khan said:

Back then, it seems, soaps had writers who had come up through the stage and through radio, so special attention was placed on how dialogue was tailored specifically to character and to actor.  Nowadays, when you listen to the dialogue on B&B, DAYS, GH, Y&R, it all sounds so clunky and interchangeable, written more to be quoted on social media (by writers whose knowledge of good writing comes only through other TV shows) than to illuminate characters' feelings and motivations.

If I had one piece of advice for anyone working today in soaps or who wants to work in soaps, it would be this: READ.  Read books.  Read plays.  Read short stories.  Read newspapers and magazines and even billboards you pass along the highway, if that's what strikes your fancy.  But read.  (And for God's sake: READ YOUR SCRIPTS ALOUD.  Your ears are your best guide to knowing what sounds stupid coming out of someone's mouth.)

Even stereotypical storylines can be elevated by fine, perceptive dialogue writing. When WAS the last time we had that?

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 10/14/74-10/18/74 & 10/21/74-10/25/74:

ATWT pulling away. Numbers increased! I'm curious what stories were being told.

2 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

Imagine that the children of summer '74 were exposed to Kay sleeping with stable boy Jeff and Gwen prostituting herself out of her apartment!! 🤣

😂 summer 74 was full on. Did Lorie pose for her centrefold during that time too? 

Between the stable of stable boys, the 'ho who was 'ho'in' out of her bachelorette pad and Lorie Brooks becoming Genoa City's answer to Barbi Benton, it was THE YOUNG AND THE HOLY COW!!!!!!!

Edited January 11Jan 11 by Khan

I wonder if Fall 1974 All My Children was setting up a dramatic story to send Susan Lucci off on pregnancy leave. Her daughter was born in February 1975.

17 minutes ago, Khan said:

Between the stable of stable boys, the 'ho who was 'ho'in' out of her bachelorette pad and Lorie Brooks becoming Genoa City's answer to Barbi Benton, it was THE YOUNG AND THE HOLY COW!!!!!!!

It's so funny how Y&R was considered scandalous and shocking BITD but by today's standards it would be considered tame and Y&R is considered tame today.

6 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I wonder if Fall 1974 All My Children was setting up a dramatic story to send Susan Lucci off on pregnancy leave. Her daughter was born in February 1975.

It's so funny how Y&R was considered scandalous and shocking BITD but by today's standards it would be considered tame and Y&R is considered tame today.

AMC was firing all on fronts:

 

In 1973, certain that she was on the verge of fame and fortune, Erica secretly aborted Jeff's baby.

Jeff stood trial for Jason's murder, but finally, it was revealed that Mona had killed the cad. The scandal temporarily ended Erica's days as a cover girl.

In 1974, after granting Jeff a divorce, Erica made another play for Phil, who was on the rebound from Tara. This time, he not only slept with Erica, but a year later, he married her. After Erica miscarried their child and suffered a nervous breakdown, she gave Phil a divorce and began an affair with the much older Nick Davis, her mother's best friend.

At the same time as Erica was carrying on with Nick, she became quite taken with Mark Dalton, the new music teacher at Pine Valley University. When it appeared that Erica and Mark might become more than friends, Mona admitted that the young man was the illegitimate son of Erica's father and his secretary, Maureen Dalton. Initially, Erica refused to accept her half-brother Mark, but over time, the half-siblings became very close.