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SON Community Back Online

SOD's excerpt from Carolyn Hinsey's new book

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Turn The Page

Longtime Digest columnist Carolyn Hinsey has written a book called "Afternoon Delight: Why Soaps Still Matter", slated for release this month from 4th Street Media. Here is an excerpt from Chapter 12, titled "Naming Names." Uh oh....

Bye Bye Bauers

The final domino for GUIDING LIGHT came in the form of a sleepy little New Jersey town called Peapack that knocked our beloved Springfield down for good.

On February 29th, 2008, Executive Producer Ellen Wheeler launched the new "production model" that was supposed to save GL. Her plan was to use hand-held camers, permanent sets and location shooting to revitalize this 70 year-old jewel.

"We all knew about the house in Peapack way before they told us about it," says a GL source of the home in New Jersey that would soon be used for much of the show's action. "I remember a general meeting with everybody where Ellen allowed people to ask questions. Someone said 'We're hearing rumors about a house the show has bought in New Jersey where we're all going to have to go work.' You could hear a pin drop. She said, 'No, that's not true at all.' Turned out we were just LEASING the house."

For some reason, Wheeler shrouded her Peapack plans in secrecy, keeping them even from CBS. "Everyone was going to [CBS Daytime honcho] Barbara Bloom and begging her to do something, but she turned a blind eye. And Ellen flatly refused to release the scripts to anyone. Ricky Paul [Goldin, Gus Aituro] didn't want anything to do with Peapack, so he quit." (Goldin joined ALL MY CHILDREN later that year as Tad's brother, Jake Martin.)

Wheeler filmed the first "location" episode on the sly with only a handful of people. Numerous actors spoke off the record of the debacle that followed, but true to daytime's protective atmosphere did not want to be quoted-even though their show isn't even on the air anymore.

"I remember we had a special airing of the first episode in the studio," recalls an actor. "They called everybody in and brought in lunch. We all sat there and watched this horrible episode. There was no storyline, they just placed people in different sets, like Josh and Billy on a work site with Remy. Everyone politely clapped and then we all filed out going, 'Oh, my God, what garbage.' Ellen was furious; it was like hell had frozen over. We found out later she wrote the episode herself."

Things went downhill from there, if you can imagine. Sources say that CBS honchos finally got a look at what Wheeler was doing and did not like what they saw. The shaky cameras and rough production values were bad enough, but viewers often could not hear the dialogue.

"Our days were numbered after that," sighs one source. "But Ellen just stayed in her tunnel and plowed ahead. We turned executive offices into nail salons and her office into a church sanctuary and shot everything with those awful hand-held cameras. She loved all the technical stuff. She was more invested in that than the actual storyline and characters on the show, which of course was the problem. Her attitude was, 'How dare they not buy into my vision?"

The cast had it the worst, changing their clothes on location shoots in cars and behind garages, and not getting proper hair, makeup, and wardrobe. Contrary to what fans were seeing on air, it was still supposed to be a soap opera.

"I can't tell you how humiliating it was out there. I remember one chilly day we were shooting a scene of Dinah and Mallet playing golf. It was supposed to be May, so Gina [Tognoni, Dinah] wasn't wearing a coat. She was freezing and got cranky. Ellen took off her giant down coat with the big label on it and said, 'Just wear this, it's fine.' I thought the costume designer was going to die. We'd all be out there and the director would ask a question and she'd say, 'Oh, the audience won't notice. They won't care.' but yes they will! They're invested! They care!"

GL limped along for over a year with the new "production model" as the writing - and morale - deteriorated.

"Fans just want to see their favorite characters in a well-written storyline," laments the source, who has gone on to work on another show. "They don't care if they're sitting in a real diner. They just want to see what happens to them."

GL was cancelled in March 2009.

"No show in daytime or prime-time, or anytime has touched so many millions of viewers over so many years," said CBS Daytime exec Barbara Bloom in a statement. She was later ousted.

The last episode aired on September 18, 2009, a full 72 years after Irna Phillips dreamed up her enduring vision of a light in the window to guide Reverend Ruthledge's flock.

"I don't think P&G willingly got out of the soap biz," surmises the source. "The people in charge just didn't understand why people watch soaps, which kills me because that was their whole thing - marketing and their connection to their buyers for 80 years. They lost contact with that."

Edited by RoseVioletDaisy

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I didn't watch that much during Wheeler's first years but I didn't think the show looked that awful compared to what it had been...although I hate that they got rid of some longstanding sets. I will probably always blame Conboy's budget-busting for much of the decline in wardrobe and sets (and I hated a lot of the clothes the women wore with Rauch and Conboy anyway, so that was money badly spent).

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In SOD, it says it's supposed to be published "this month", probably meaning July.

I don't think it's Zimmer---she's already said a lot of this stuff in previous interviews. And she's got nothing to fear from letting the chips fall. My bet is Crystal Chappell.

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While Wheeler's vision and execution were both disgraceful, my own opinion is that GL's production values from late-2005 (following a massive budget cut) to February 2008 weren't much better. During that time, GL had just a small handful of (cheap-looking) indoor sets, and it seemed as if every other scene took place at Company. Therefore, I concur with a previous poster's opinion that GL should have been cancelled in 2005.

Even though fans of AMC & OLTL are so outraged right now, such fans (along with ATWT fans) seem to forget a very important point: by cancelling these shows now, they can still go out with dignity.......

IMO, ATWT went out with dignity. It was EXCELLENT in 2009 and 2010, far better than it had been since mid-2006. It wasn't perfect by any means (Juicy Janet, Katie propping- and I like her :lol:-) but they most certainly went out with dignity. IMO, ATWT was hands down the Best Soap of 2010 and probably 2009 as well (the resurgence started in the spring of that year). They were MILES ahead of the highest rated soap on the air, Y&R, and its sister soap B&B. The last episode of ATWT was better than the last episode of any soap I've seen in recent years (AW, SUN, Santa Barbara) and almost on par with the SFT finale in 1986.

........Even though fans of AMC & OLTL are so outraged right now, such fans (along with ATWT fans) seem to forget a very important point: by cancelling these shows now, they can still go out with dignity. There is no doubt that AMC, OLTL, and ATWT all have/had a couple of extra years left in them; however, keeping those soaps around for that additional amount of time would have required a massive amount of budget cuts (to the point where these shows would have been unrecognizable). In my opinion, it is so much better for a show to end three or four years too early than three or four years too late.

I feel for the AMC fans the most. I stopped watching regularly in 2005, after Edmund's death and before Brooke was entirely gone (they maybe used her a handful of times after Edmund died). But when I have tuned in since, the show has largely been a mess, with very few bright spots. The first problem was that Frons flat out REFUSED to do anything about Julie Hanan Carruthers. Instead the writers constantly took the blame. Yes, the writing was atrocious, but a solid EP can at least up the production values and guide the ship. She should have taken the reins when it became clear that the writers were dropping the ball and collaborated with them on executing a single vision that would have made the show work. Like her or not, this is a department where JFP excels, not that she'd ever be right for AMC nor would I wish her on the fans of the show. But a solid EP can make all the difference sometimes.

Secondly, like I already mentioned, AMC went through a SLEW of God-Awful recycled hack headwriters including McTavish (her work post-July 2005 was dreadful), B&E, Pratt (the worst offender), and Kreitzman & Swajeski (stabilized the show but never achieved greatness- uneven at best). Hell, before then, things weren't so hot either, with Passanante being awful, and Rayfield/Cascio and Richard Culliton not being given enough time to execute any kind of vision they may have had.

Finally, AMC fans got THE best news in a LONG TIME two weeks before the show's cancellation- acclaimed former Head Writer Lorraine Broderick was returning to her post! Then they're slapped in the face again(!) with the reveal that she'd only get to write it into the end and only for the last 2 1/2 months. Such a shame, because her pen is what the show needed this entire time.

While I do believe she'll do a solid job tying things up, the previous regimes have made such a mess of the show that it's impossible for it to truly go out with dignity. It's going to be bittersweet at best, since the quality is likely to FINALLY get better and just when things are getting good, AMC will disappear from the airwaves completely.

OLTL, on the other hand, at least has had stability the last 4 or so years with Valentini as EP and Carlivati as Head Writer, both of whom have a long history with the show and were promoted from within. That show is going out with some sense of dignity intact.

In SOD, it says it's supposed to be published "this month", probably meaning July.

I don't think it's Zimmer---she's already said a lot of this stuff in previous interviews. And she's got nothing to fear from letting the chips fall. My bet is Crystal Chappell.

Interesting- Chappell is a pretty good guess, as she didn't even enter my mind. Then again, she seemed to benefit from Ellen's vision the most and doesn't she use the same basic production model for 'Venice'?

My money's still on Zimmer, given her close relationship with Hinsey and her notorious big mouth.

Edited by juniorz1

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I think Zimmer would be very picky-choosy about what info she'd dish.... she's got her own book coming out after all!

I think GL stopped feeling like a real community in the latter half of 2004 when you could tell the set usage was diminishing but the show still had strong stories through the first half of 2005. When they started converting Beacon Hotel rooms into condos, that should've been a sign to wrap the show up. Oh, and the whole getting-rid-of-Jerry-ver-Dorn thing too.

Remember that one time they actually merged the two sets of Josh & Reva's house? They had the front doorway and staircase on the right side, but then the fireplace suddenly was in the middle of the room and then the back door was on the left side of the room. So bizarre! And Ellen Wheeler thinks we won't notice or care?

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OLTL, on the other hand, at least has had stability the last 4 or so years with Valentini as EP and Carlivati as Head Writer, both of whom have a long history with the show and were promoted from within. That show is going out with some sense of dignity intact.

That's one way to put it...

I thought AW's finale was better than ATWT's, mostly because I felt it was somewhat true to AW's history. ATWT's was so very generic, which summed up Goutman's shame over ATWT's past. Prince of Tides music and obtrusive narration over all else.

Edited by CarlD2

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That's one way to put it...

I thought AW's finale was better than ATWT's, mostly because I felt it was somewhat true to AW's history. ATWT's was so very generic, which summed up Goutman's shame over ATWT's past. Prince of Tides music and obtrusive narration over all else.

Yes, that's the right word for the last episode. It was so generic. It had no wow this is the end kind of feeling to it.

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I loved the ATWT finale. I thought Bob narrating it was absolutely perfect.

Remind me...wasn't it Wheeler who started those dopey "Inside the Light" Wednesday episodes? Comic hero Harley will always live in infamy....

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It's not so much that I mind Bob narrating, because I loved Bob, but it just seemed like it was all so boilerplate, random people saying goodbye. By the end of ATWT, the show no longer even remembered that Bob or Kim had any family beyond people who were already on the show. Even Frannie, who had returned earlier the same year, wasn't mentioned. Emma, who had left only a few months earlier, wasn't mentioned. It was strange. I no longer felt any connection to the show's history - which is what ATWT represented to me.

Wheeler started those episodes at GL, although I think they may have been more down to Kriezman and Swajeski, since they did a few at AMC last year.

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I don't think the Inside the Light concept was a bad one, in theory. A few of the episodes really worked well. Generally, it was the ones that took place in sort of real time or kept the same general pace as a regular episode, just with focus on one story/character. The ones where they tried to speed through weeks or month of story in one episode (the worst example being the episode where Ross died, Ross was buried, and Blake finished grieving all in 42 minutes) were disastrous.

Same with the Peapack production model. The basic ideas were sound and certainly worth exploring in the changing daytime environment. The execution, however, was more often than not a total trainwreck.

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As much as I can't stand C hris Goutman, I do think he kept ATWT "looking good" on a shoestring budget. The way GL and ATWT looked at the end were night-and-day different. Aside from the funerals and weddings with five people in attendence, ATWT never looked cheap.

But I have to totally disagree about the finale. Soap Opera Digest called it the worst soap finale ever, and I have to agree. Goutman wasn't ending a 54-year-old soap...he was just ending the stories of people currently on the canvas. Think of all the things he could have done during those last few months: reuniting all the Snyders over some near-fatal illness to Emma, having Katie swept off her feet by Simon, having Bob and Kim get a visit from Andy (who grew up on the show before our eyes), a ghostly visit from Rose (MB said she would have gladly come back for the end), a poignant final scene with Lisa, TVs first soap bitch (who got about two words in the finale...a disgrace), some heartfelt goodbyes in the finale, like Katie and Henry or Susan and Emily. And the next-to-last scene, with James Stenbeck sipping a drink on some tropical island, saying "I can't believe they think some twit like Audrey could have killed ME".

I loved ATWT and watched it since the mid-80. But the ending was just horrible.

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As much as I can't stand C hris Goutman, I do think he kept ATWT "looking good" on a shoestring budget. The way GL and ATWT looked at the end were night-and-day different. Aside from the funerals and weddings with five people in attendence, ATWT never looked cheap.

But I have to totally disagree about the finale. Soap Opera Digest called it the worst soap finale ever, and I have to agree. Goutman wasn't ending a 54-year-old soap...he was just ending the stories of people currently on the canvas. Think of all the things he could have done during those last few months: reuniting all the Snyders over some near-fatal illness to Emma, having Katie swept off her feet by Simon, having Bob and Kim get a visit from Andy (who grew up on the show before our eyes), a ghostly visit from Rose (MB said she would have gladly come back for the end), a poignant final scene with Lisa, TVs first soap bitch (who got about two words in the finale...a disgrace), some heartfelt goodbyes in the finale, like Katie and Henry or Susan and Emily. And the next-to-last scene, with James Stenbeck sipping a drink on some tropical island, saying "I can't believe they think some twit like Audrey could have killed ME".

I loved ATWT and watched it since the mid-80. But the ending was just horrible.

I love your idea for the ATWT ending. That's what I had in mind too especially the James Stenbeck still being alive.

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Wheeler started those episodes at GL, although I think they may have been more down to Kriezman and Swajeski, since they did a few at AMC last year.

Actually, I don't believe it was down to Kreizman and Swajeski....at least, not Kreizman anyway. I'm pretty sure the ITL episodes started when Ellen Weston was still head writer and Swajeski was co-head.

As much as I can't stand C hris Goutman, I do think he kept ATWT "looking good" on a shoestring budget. The way GL and ATWT looked at the end were night-and-day different. Aside from the funerals and weddings with five people in attendence, ATWT never looked cheap.

No DOUBT! Hell, Henry and Vienna got married at AL'S for Christ sakes! Vienna wouldn't be caught dead donning a wedding gown in a freaking diner! And then Henry & Barbara were married in the lobby of the Lakeview!

But I have to totally disagree about the finale. Soap Opera Digest called it the worst soap finale ever, and I have to agree. Goutman wasn't ending a 54-year-old soap...he was just ending the stories of people currently on the canvas. Think of all the things he could have done during those last few months: reuniting all the Snyders over some near-fatal illness to Emma, having Katie swept off her feet by Simon, having Bob and Kim get a visit from Andy (who grew up on the show before our eyes), a ghostly visit from Rose (MB said she would have gladly come back for the end), a poignant final scene with Lisa, TVs first soap bitch (who got about two words in the finale...a disgrace), some heartfelt goodbyes in the finale, like Katie and Henry or Susan and Emily. And the next-to-last scene, with James Stenbeck sipping a drink on some tropical island, saying "I can't believe they think some twit like Audrey could have killed ME".

I loved ATWT and watched it since the mid-80. But the ending was just horrible.

Well then I'd have to respectfully disagree, especially with the bolded statement. I have watched the finales of Search For Tomorrow, Santa Barbara, Another World, Sunset Beach, Guiding Light, and As The World Turns. Santa Barbara was BY FAR the worst soap finale I've ever seen. LITERALLY NOBODY returned- not 1 former actor, even ones who had recently left. The only long-running characters that got any closure were CC & Sophia and Mason & Julia. Hell, Mason & Julia were isolated from the ENTIRE episode (much like they were isolated from the other characters on the show in SB's final year). Most of the action took place at the wedding of Warren & BJ, Julia's NEPHEW, and they weren't even in attendance. Instead, they were at home, having sex, finding out who won the election for SB judge (Mason I think), finding out their adoption was approved and that Julia was actually pregnant also. They didn't even get to share the news with any other character. Ted had been married off to Lily, who he didn't love, and never reunited with Angela, who he did love. They were the only rooting couple in SB's final year and the show ended with them apart. Angela didn't even APPEAR in the finale! BJ had been on the show for all of 8 months- 8 MONTHS and the ENTIRE finale focused on HER wedding and HER happiness with Warren (a recast Jack Wagner). Nobody gave a SH!T about these people!

Augusta didn't come back. Cruz & Eden didn't make an appearance. No Santana, no ghostly appearance from Mary, no Cassandra, no Laken, no RealKelly, no Keith Timmons, no Brandon Capwell, NOBODY came back!

Hell, I was hoping for just a lousy phone call from Cruz or Eden telling their loved ones that Cruz had finally found her and they were living happily ever after. Rauch/Long didn't even give us that!

It was, BY FAR, the worst and most disappointing finale for one of the most sophisticated, witty, intelligent soap operas ever to hit the airwaves.

True, ATWT didn't have a ton of former characters come back, but at least we got appearances from Gwen, Will, Iris, Rosanna, and Frannie. The longtime vets, like Lucinda and Barbara, were given story again and drove story in the final months. Jack & Carly were reunited, as were Holden and Lily, and most characters (save Meg) were given a happy ending.

The last episode was sweet, sentimental, and cute without being hokey. I really enjoyed it and thought the quality of the show was very good in its final year, which is more than I can say for my beloved Santa Barbara.

Edited by juniorz1

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Frannie did come back, but in April, not for the finale. I wish they could have asked Julianne, when she was there for her April appearance, to film just a short extra scene where she calls Bob on the phone to say she's thinking of him (as he was retiring from the hospital).

Don't get me wrong, I loved a lot of the Lucinda and Barbara material in the last year, and I do appreciate that dearly. I especially liked Barbara and Kim talking about Barbara's mother.

The last few months of ATWT felt very barren to me. Not only were there few returns, but longtime characters were not even mentioned. It was as if they never existed. It was like that Next Generation episode where people kept vanishing from the Enterprise and only Beverly Crusher remembered them. Nancy died and there was no mention of Don, Penny, Andy, Frannie, or Sabrina. I liked the episode, in spite of this, because there were some nice touches (mentions of Susan, and of Nancy being a teacher), but they ended the episode on Katie, in a weak performance by Terri Conn, talking about how hard this was for her. Poor Katie!

The Holden/Lily stuff was strange. I honestly don't think most fans had an interest in them reuniting with Noelle Beck in the role. I truly truly think they should have ended with Holden/Molly. Instead they half-heartedly hinted at a Lilden reunion.

I also disliked the music - I really disliked that, as I've bitched about many times. It drowned out the scenes and I had never heard this on ATWT before. I wonder if they paid out for that music and didn't have the money for returns.

Seeing Holden and Lily on that farm in some deleted scenes from the finale, with no mention of Emma, just made me feel sad. It was so empty.

The only scenes that I enjoyed were the goodbyes with Barbara/Henry, Jack/Carly, John, Lucinda, Kim, Bob, Susan, Susan and Emily seeing Allison off. Nothing for Lisa. That $3 glow in the dark globe got more airtime.

Edited by CarlD2

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How do you get everybody back in Oakdale? A retirement bash party for Bob. Hell they do it every year at my work....with coworkers and family members attending. It could have been an easy way to bring so many fan favorites back. They could even have brought back a character from the past that was gay to be introduced to Luke. Giving us a hint that maybe Luke might get his happy ending.

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