Was it ever said why Marland wanted his co-creator credit removed from the show?

The beginning years written by Marland seemed the most focused the show ever was, sadly.

And ironically the most like 1970s AMC (though you do get glimpses of some classic Marland elements too). There's that terrific episode from 1985 on youtube where nothign major happens, but it's just solid soap.

Agnes remained friends with marland till his end, it seems, so I dunno what happened. It was per his request (some have said that when he left, he didn't really feel he had created it as much since he came to the project after it had largely been sketched out by Nixon and Wakefield). Marland was also pretty busy around this time--his Showtime cable soap New Day in Eden was around the same time I think--and I think he was asked to do ATWT while at LOV, which he prob saw as a better opportunity (also it was a show he was familiar with).

Actually, I think "generic" (ugh) was kind of what AN was going for, even evidenced in her choice of the most blah soap title ever. She was going for a return to classic soap: romance, family, a little intrigue. I don't think 1980-anything was the time to return to the nuts and bolts of a genre. The country wanted wham-bam-swanky-glam and Loving was too Zzzzzz, even with its brittle, moneyed Aldens. "Ya gotta have a gimmick", look at Capitol and Santa Barbara, even Generations. Loving seemed like a watered down version of AMC and OLTL, nothing she couldn't have done on either one of those shows, so yes, perhaps the show needed a stronger identity. What that could have been, well, that's up to Agnes Nixon's imagination.

Exactly. Schemering comments on this in his Soap Encyclopedia when it was still a new show (as a soap fan, he of course sees this as a hugely refreshing change, particularly when even AMC was starting to move into the 80s theme for soaps). FOr various reasons too Loving never really got the recognition for dealing so early on with AIDS, their gro8undbreaking incest storyline, etc

Because, Sylph, if I were the head of ABC Daytime, it would make perfect financial sense to court the man who was responsible for huge successes with CBS (with Y&R) and NBC (with DAYS). Charlie Sheen: "Duh!"

Would Bell have done a soap for another network? I know it's not unheard of, but it just would have seemed odd to me (remember too he was VERY busy with Y&R right at this time trying to get it back up after a brief dip in the ratings when it was restructured).

You know, I remember seeing Agnes Nixon's archive interview and I was disappointed. It's not really a fun interview to watch as this woman who has created two of my favorite soap operas and some of the most memorable characters comes off a bit flakey...but come to think of it, show me a genius who isn't. Nixon sort of gives the interviewer heck during certain points of the interview. I can't tell if the interviewer wasn't prepared or Agnes was having a bad day but it's not like all the other interviews that were pleasant and interesting to watch like Erika Slezak's or Ruth Warrick's. Has anyone else seen the interview?

LOL no surprise to anyone here, but I think she's loively in the interview. The interviewerer (Marlena Delacroix, no less lol) asks some DUMB questions and misses the point with some bits, but I think Agnes is pretty patient. LOL. But maybe I cut her too much slack--it is at least an interesting interview ounlike Bell's which is hard to sit through because of the way he talks.

That said Agnes suffers, as does Susan Lucci (which is why I'll never buy her memoirs) from being too... Nice? Proper? She doesn't want to ruffle feathers. It's obvious from the interview and all we know that she had issue with the creator of Search for Tomorrow (Roy Winsor?)--a show she wrote the first 13 weeks of, for example but she'd rather say nothing than not say anything nice. So there's absolutely no juicy stories there, and we never find out about specifics with Loving, etc. That said, the Lily incest story seems to have been as much her idea as Marland's to pick one example.

I have a soft spot for Loving... but, yes, it did seem like a watered down version of All My Children.

I thought Michael Weatherly was so f*cking hot as Cooper... loved the glasses.

Me tooo. I hated how Cooper pretty much didnt get much love in favor of the show's new pet, Casey at the time

Edited March 16, 201114 yr by Cheap21

I loved Cooper too--I always forget he kinda went on to be a (sorta known) TV star. Loved Cooper and Steffi (Heinle back when I liked her ). Actually I quite liked the young teen/college scene around that time, and like I said I thought Nixon's return as HW in 94 was GREAT (even the bizarro gothic stuff she likes to do--in this case Dante having Curtis his "pet" in a cage lol, and comic stories like the Alden patriarch popping up in disguise as a worker), as well as B/E's stuff of course the next year with the Murders (who'd have thought they'd go on to be one of the least liked HW teams...)(

Would Bell have done a soap for another network?

If the deal were tempting enough, I think he would have, sure. Of course, it would have been understood that he still kept watch, if you will, over Y&R, even if it meant handing off the daily HW'ing chores to someone like Kay Alden or Jerry Birn. Remember, too, we're talking about before B&B, and at that time, Bell was looking for the opportunity to work more with his family and groom them to continue on with the "family business," so this would have been the chance to do it.

Right, but I always thought one reason CBS gave Capitol's slot to B&B was they were so eager and anxious to keep Bell on their network.

Yeah, they were eager to keep Bell in the fold...in 1987. But we're talking 1982/1983, and at that point, "Capitol" was new-ish, and CBS really had no room for another soap.

And Bell was so busy still restructuring Y&R that he would have had no time either

(even the bizarro gothic stuff she likes to do--in this case Dante having Curtis his "pet" in a cage lol, and comic stories like the Alden patriarch popping up in disguise as a worker)

Well, there again, and I am only engaging friendly banter is another way how LOVING was AMC...Palmer got caught at the chicken shack before Cabot was found flipping omelettes on the short order grill...So yeah, Chicken before the Egg...

Also wasn't there a storyline where the college set...Cooper, Ally, Casey, Hannah, Steffi, Kent and Staige all went to a mansion on the outskirts of Cornith to make it over as a fraternity or something and they held a late night seance with a ouija board and Ally became possessed (not like Marlena on Days, but to some effect)? Also, remember the character of Janie played by I think Alise Neal? She was soooo cool, and then they wrote her off it was like...NOOOO she is actually a good find and looked good with Frankie Hubbard. Also I love how Frankie rapidly aged, then came back to AMC and was still the same age as he was in the 90's. I also hate how they just brought Jesse back from the dead on AMC, but got rid of Jacob his doppelganger from LOVING/THE CITY. I always that was a mistake.

Erik

Regardless of how you feel about Loving from a qualitative standpoint, ABC kept this show on the air far longer than its ratings merited. I believe that Loving would have been cancelled far earlier if it was created by somebody other than Nixon, just like Passions would have been cancelled far earlier if it was created by somebody other than Reilly. ABC and NBC wanted to show their gratitude to each show's creator (for their past successes), and thus were much more reluctant to pull the plug when it became apparent that neither soap would have the potential to become a major hit (or even be able to rise into the middle tier of the ratings).

Edited September 20, 201114 yr by Max

I don't think it was down to loyalty to Agnes. For a while, the ratings were OK. Then the show was on at a time when the ABC network was doing well. When the lineup began faltering, they had bigger problems to focus on (mainly saving GH).

Wait So Angie & Frankie appeared On AMC in 93 before going To LOVING? How Long was their Visit & What Brought them to LOVING?

I don't think so John. Maybe, but I don't remember that. The first time I saw Angie back, it was on Loving and she and Frankie and Pat were unpacking in the new house.

She didn't appear on AMC before crossing over to Loving, which confused me to no end. I have the feeling many AMC and Angie fans probably had no clue that she was on Loving at all.