6 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Do you hate the Tale of 2 Romans as much as I do?  Do you feel like it went on forever and explained nothing?  Do you think making John not Roman is one of the worst mistakes Days has ever made?  Do you find Isabella unbearably obnoxious?  Probably not, but these are all the things I think of when watching that crap story.  It's like Days had gold when they got Dee and Wayne back and that was the story choice.  Plus, they just decided to not use them for about a year until Marlena decided she wanted to [!@#$%^&*] John again.  I know there is a lot of talk about just writing a soap yourself if you hate things and I am not a writer, but I legit could have crafted a better return story for two icons in the early 90's.

I've hated most of DAYS' story choices for the last 30+ years. I don't think the current writers on any soap opera are capable of telling erudite, thoughtful, well-crafted stories. Nor are they capable of writing three-dimensional, intelligent, believable characters. To be honest, I'd rather the shows come to an end than continue indefinitely in their present, crippled state, although this sentiment always invokes a chorus of protest ("I don't care if the show is a steaming pile of doo-doo. You would just shut up and accept it the way it is, if you were a REEEEEEAL FAN!")

Grunt, LOL.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

No, she's definitely no Charity Rahmer.   

DHogestyn is capable of delivering better performances as well, but I think he and Dee suffer from the same issues that plague most soap actors today: OTT writing and little (or no) direction.  Nothing will EVER save bad writing, but if you give a director more time to work with his/her actors, they can at least help them modulate their performances - here's a hint: the more OTT the writing, the smaller your performances should be - and find the emotional throughline in every scene.

How do you figure out how to play a devil Possession?  I have never thought Drake was good.  Charming, good looking, and likable?  Yes.  He has that innate ability to generate good chemistry with co stars as well and the man has a rocking body for someone who is in his 60's.  But he has recently taken his performances from older, hot action hero to wacky grandpa and I can't....Marlena and John are a fabulous supercouple and still have great chemistry.  I still think their 70 year old asses get it on all the time lol, but they lean into the cheesiness too much.  Marlena had excellent scenes with Will the other day and it showed ability but then she hams it up with John a day later.  I adore the fact the DH's still want to act and be on our tv screens everyday, but I also wish they wouldn't pander so much to the Jarlena fanbase and to be clear I am in the Jarlena fanbase🤣

2 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

I've hated most of DAYS' story choices for the last 30+ years. I don't think the current writers on any soap opera are capable of telling erudite, thoughtful, well-crafted stories. Nor are they capable of writing three-dimensional, intelligent, believable characters. To be honest, I'd rather the shows come to an end than continue indefinitely in their present, crippled state, although this sentiment always invokes a chorus of protest ("I don't care if the show is a steaming pile of doo-doo. You would just shut up and accept it the way it is, if you were a REEEEEEAL FAN!")

Grunt, LOL.

I am going to probably get hate on this but I think the Tale of 2 Romans is the worst story Days has ever done.  Sure there are failed stories like "Garden of Eden" and what not, but this messed with such iconic history it's ridiculous.  I know Days had a renaissance and bump in popularity in the 90's, but I don't see how you can't point to that story and say this is where it all got bad lol.  To this day, if you asked me to explain it I couldn't.  

11 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I am going to probably get hate on this but I think the Tale of 2 Romans is the worst story Days has ever done.  Sure there are failed stories like "Garden of Eden" and what not, but this messed with such iconic history it's ridiculous.  I know Days had a renaissance and bump in popularity in the 90's, but I don't see how you can't point to that story and say this is where it all got bad lol.  To this day, if you asked me to explain it I couldn't.  

Knowing that I have watched soaps for several decades, someone asked me recently what I thought were the WORST storylines ever told on daytime TV.

I tried to compile a list, but became overwhelmed quite quickly, because there were so many to choose from. The Tale of the Two Romans, The Garden of Eden, Melaswen, Marlena's Possession, Princess Gina...DAYS has had a lot of absolute, painful stinkers

20 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Knowing that I have watched soaps for several decades, someone asked me recently what I thought were the WORST storylines ever told on daytime TV.

I tried to compile a list, but became overwhelmed quite quickly, because there were so many to choose from. The Tale of the Two Romans, The Garden of Eden, Melaswen, Marlena's Possession, Princess Gina...DAYS has had a lot of absolute, painful stinkers

I just don't see how anyway you look at the tale of 2 Romans it makes sense.  It is the jumping off point for the endless Days ridiculousness.  It made Marlena and the entire Brady family look like idiots and they still haven't reconciled who John really is.  I don't think anyone came off likable in the story at all.  It really started the trend of RealRoman being an ass to Marlena.

6 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I just don't see how anyway you look at the tale of 2 Romans it makes sense.  It is the jumping off point for the endless Days ridiculousness.  It made Marlena and the entire Brady family look like idiots and they still haven't reconciled who John really is.  I don't think anyone came off likable in the story at all.  It really started the trend of RealRoman being an ass to Marlena.

I truly don't think they even care about anything "tracking" or making sense, as long as they get eyeballs in front of the TV (which...they are failing at, anyway, so whatever!🙄)

Drake seems like the nicest guy in the world, but his pairing with Deidre was the worst thing for me as a fan (along with the writing) because of his acting.   I know I'm in the minority with current viewers, lol.  Marlena was one of my favorites before that and I still have affection for her.  I was starting to enjoy her again when John was killed off.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Deidre has not been Emmy nominated since their pairing.

50 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

I've hated most of DAYS' story choices for the last 30+ years. I don't think the current writers on any soap opera are capable of telling erudite, thoughtful, well-crafted stories. Nor are they capable of writing three-dimensional, intelligent, believable characters. To be honest, I'd rather the shows come to an end than continue indefinitely in their present, crippled state, although this sentiment always invokes a chorus of protest ("I don't care if the show is a steaming pile of doo-doo. You would just shut up and accept it the way it is, if you were a REEEEEEAL FAN!")

Grunt, LOL.

 

56 minutes ago, carolineg said:

 

I am going to probably get hate on this but I think the Tale of 2 Romans is the worst story Days has ever done.  Sure there are failed stories like "Garden of Eden" and what not, but this messed with such iconic history it's ridiculous.  I know Days had a renaissance and bump in popularity in the 90's, but I don't see how you can't point to that story and say this is where it all got bad lol.  To this day, if you asked me to explain it I couldn't.  

 

22 minutes ago, jam6242 said:

Drake seems like the nicest guy in the world, but his pairing with Deidre was the worst thing for me as a fan (along with the writing) because of his acting.   I know I'm in the minority with current viewers, lol.  Marlena was one of my favorites before that and I still have affection for her.  I was starting to enjoy her again when John was killed off.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Deidre has not been Emmy nominated since their pairing.

I get it as a fan.  I am not sure it's doing either of them any favors, but I literally think they are iconic and in love-so I am not objective lol.  My feeling is Drake would have been dumped years ago without the pairing, so good for him.  I think the pairing is more a disservice to her more than him.  Unfortunatley they boxed Drake in by not making him Roman and you can't go back now with Shawn/Belle and Brady/Thersea having kids.  No writer has ever nailed down John's origins.  I have no idea why they didn't make him Roman's twin.

Edited March 20, 20223 yr by carolineg

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

How do you figure out how to play a devil Possession?

Again, you "play it small."  You don't go immediately for camp.  You play it as realistically as possible, because the more natural it comes across to the audience, the more terrifying it'll be for them to watch.

And that goes not just for the actor who's supposed to be playing the one who's possessed, but for everyone else involved in the story, too.  Look at how Katherine Helmond handled Jessica's climactic confrontation with the devil, who had possessed her newborn grandson, on "Soap."  In that moment, she didn't go for high camp or wacky histrionics.  She played it absolutely straight, as a woman who is fighting to save her family from evil itself.  IMO, her performance in that one scene was better than all the performances in Possession 1.0 or 2.0 COMBINED.

20 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I have no idea why they didn't make him Roman's twin.

IMO, it would have made the most sense, but I feel TPTB were more concerned with shocking and surprising the folks at home with that story rather than simply telling a good story.  I mean, at the end of the day, no one really CARES who John Black really is or how he became Roman Brady, but they care about how those revelations impact his life and those of Roman, Marlena and their family and friends as well.  THAT's what you play, and play up, not some b.s. about Romulus and Remus and some damn coins in a knapsack tucked inside a Mayan temple or whatever.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I am going to probably get hate on this but I think the Tale of 2 Romans is the worst story Days has ever done.

Well, if you get any hate, just send them my way, and I'll take care of it.   

Edited March 20, 20223 yr by Khan

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

I tried to compile a list, but became overwhelmed quite quickly, because there were so many to choose from. The Tale of the Two Romans, The Garden of Eden, Melaswen, Marlena's Possession, Princess Gina...DAYS has had a lot of absolute, painful stinkers

I give Possession 1.0 a (slight) pass, because I feel like there was a point to the story, even if it was a point that I didn't exactly understand or agree with, lol.  But one of the WORST things you could do as a writer is tell a story with NO point, and I'm afraid that's the category where the others you've mentioned belong.  If crap like Virtual Eden or Melaswen had a point, then it totally passed me by.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

I give Possession 1.0 a (slight) pass, because I feel like there was a point to the story, even if it was a point that I didn't exactly understand or agree with, lol.  But one of the WORST things you could do as a writer is tell a story with NO point, and I'm afraid that's the category where the others you've mentioned belong.  If crap like Virtual Eden or Melaswen had a point, then it totally passed me by.

Agree 100%.  Even if you didn't agree with the point, the Possession had one.  It was a very clear lovestory underneath it all.  JER gave it a very obvious beginning, middle, and end-even if I suspect it changed half way through to make it more Marlena/John centric.  It will never be a story I like, but it was well crafted overall.  

Hogestyn works in 1986. He's inexperienced as an actor and John Black is nervous, pretending to be something he's not, so it totally fits. And Hall played Marlena as a strong, confident individual at the surface, good at masking her fears. She's a believable therapist at this point.

I thought Hogestyn continued to do pretty good work through 1988ish. After Genie Francis leaves, Roman doesn't really have a direction, nor anybody really experienced enough to carry him.

There's a couple of good scenes in Two Romans - the rainy night where Roman and Marlena are warned that John could self destruct. And Hogestyn pulls it off in a solo scene. Two Romans might could have worked, if they'd just left John's past as an Alamain. Instead of their wont for the past 30 years, tieing him to every half-assed idea they want to push as the new truth.

I thought both Hall and Hogestyn did wonderfully well for the first two weeks in 2008(?) when John was back from the dead. Hogestyn toned down a bunch of his annoying trademarks and for the first time in a while, Marlena was back as a cool, strong leader. But of course, their story was nothing more than a prop for that ridiculous Santino and Colleen crap and John had no direction for months after. Until they finally decided to just drop the RoboJohn thing.

35 minutes ago, Titus Andronicus said:

Two Romans might could have worked, if they'd just left John's past as an Alamain. Instead of their wont for the past 30 years, tieing him to every half-assed idea they want to push as the new truth.

TBH, I never cared even for that original retcon, as it felt random to me.  It was as if the writers had already exhausted all their other options and couldn't find one that was entirely satisfactory, so they just settled on making him Forrest Gump Alamain so they could move on.

28 minutes ago, Titus Andronicus said:

Hogestyn works in 1986. He's inexperienced as an actor and John Black is nervous, pretending to be something he's not, so it totally fits. And Hall played Marlena as a strong, confident individual at the surface, good at masking her fears. She's a believable therapist at this point.

I thought Hogestyn continued to do pretty good work through 1988ish. After Genie Francis leaves, Roman doesn't really have a direction, nor anybody really experienced enough to carry him.

There's a couple of good scenes in Two Romans - the rainy night where Roman and Marlena are warned that John could self destruct. And Hogestyn pulls it off in a solo scene. Two Romans might could have worked, if they'd just left John's past as an Alamain. Instead of their wont for the past 30 years, tieing him to every half-assed idea they want to push as the new truth.

I thought both Hall and Hogestyn did wonderfully well for the first two weeks in 2008(?) when John was back from the dead. Hogestyn toned down a bunch of his annoying trademarks and for the first time in a while, Marlena was back as a cool, strong leader. But of course, their story was nothing more than a prop for that ridiculous Santino and Colleen crap and John had no direction for months after. Until they finally decided to just drop the RoboJohn thing.

This is a great post.

His inexperience and natural nervousness worked so well in 1986.  Not to mention his rocking chemistry with Marlena.  And Marlena had been alone for a minute, so it felt okay. Marlena's fear that John was Stefano, but  still was into it works perfectly.  I can't complain about John's intro story at all.  I still think it was A LOT to believe Drake and Wayne were the same person, but whatever lol.  One is just six inches taller lol.

I thought John/Rojohn was a natural as Roman.  He had chemistry with everyone.  He was just very earnest.  Drake has good chemistry with women, friends, kids etc.  The Diana story got a little weird and I am not convinced the entire Isabella story wasn't rushed, but he worked. 

I liked the RoboJohn stuff initially.  Dee did some great work around John's death.  The back and forth got tiresome.  Some days Marlena was all in with RoboJohn and the next day she wanted a divorce.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

TBH, I never cared even for that original retcon, as it felt random to me.  It was as if the writers had already exhausted all their other options and couldn't find one that was entirely satisfactory, so they just settled on making him Forrest Gump Alamain so they could move on.

I think the Alamain stuff just didn't age well.  The show was going for that family to be the next Kiriakis's or Dimera's and then they faded out, so no one cares now.  It probably goes back to the fact they wanted Carly/CC to be the next big lead and she up and left.  I liked John/Vivian together though.

I have said my piece about Drake before, so I won't again, except for this: I've always liked him, he always delivers what they want from him and he has always had incredible chemistry and warmth with people, from his love interests to young children like Christie Clark back in the day. He's unfairly slated, and he probably should've stayed Roman. You can say a lot about Drake but you can never say he doesn't give 100%.

Edited March 21, 20223 yr by Vee