I think that those ads ABC ran last week said a lot about what has happened to their soaps. It's only my opinion, but to run ads for your entire week which focuses solely on overexposed, and in some cases, extremely abusive, couples -- do viewers want to see this?

If promos are supposed to draw people in, I honestly think those drove people away. I can't speak about TnT but Rylee has been going on for years and they have yet to work. Frons needs to stop trying to make that mess happen. If you're a casual viewer and you see a promo for a couple that sucked five years ago and three years ago and 18 months ago why would you tune in?

Of course you are wrong, but typically, you can't bring yourself to admit it.

In "The Complete Directory of Prime Time Network and Cable TV Shows" it explicitly says in the listings for both "Golden Girls" and "Full House" that both aired re-runs on NBC Daytime and gives the years in which both aired.

Here is a link to the Wikipedia page I was talking about.

http://en.wikipedia....ision_schedules

Click on the "Weekday" listing for 1989, 1990, and 1991 and you will plainly see repeat episodes of "Golden Girls" and "Full House" airing on NBC mixed in with the NBC Daytime gameshows.

Of course, I'm sure none of these FACTS will dissuade you from your already predetermined conclusion that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

You got this one right.

With that being said I'm really enjoying OLTL right now as I've been on the edge of my seat with that show. I can definitely see a better week coming for it this week. It still needs to catch on as I see with new viewers.

Sure, the drama of the Evil Eli and Hannah climaxes were edge of your seat but overall October's been the best OLTL's been written since summer of 2009. I am barely FFing (only Ford scenes who I detest makes me FF finger twitch). I am hooked on multiple stories not just one for my fave Todd/Tea. I want to watch Natalie/Marty showdowns and ClintAsa/Matthew/Bo stuff rocks. While not a fan of the teen stuff, Starr & James are more tolerable than Starr & Cole who wore out their welcome a long time ago. Echo waltzed into town and breathed new life into a very tired Viki and Charlie.

While I agree the lighting is too dark, the directors ARE taking chances again. The show doesn't feel a cookie cutter soap anymore... there's innovative overhead shots, there's an ambiance and unique feel to the show again which I welcome.

Compared to GH, OLTL's been Steven Spielsberg thriller exciting. GH is one crashing bore right now and that shocks me as last time Guza introduced Brenda with a huge BANG. This time it's a whimper and the entire show drones and drones.

The next few weeks should be interesting. The Talk should find it's footing quickly enough but at the same time, we're now in sweeps so the stakes are high for OLTL but Ron's usually been able to pull together a decent sweeps so the next month will probably come down to promotion for both shows. If The Talk gets a few really amazing guests or generates a little controversy they could do some damage but I really think the numbers we're seeing now are going to be the norm.

I'll be the lone voice of dissent here. I think those numbers for The Talk were poor. Usually a new show as heavily promoted as I saw this one was, debuts higher.

Ron's last May sweeps came in 3rd in demos and I'll be interested to see how he scores this November. His October average so far is higher in viewers but lower than demos than.

OLTL 2010 Monthly viewer/demo averages:

Jan 2010 2,489,000 708,000 --- 2nd

Feb 2010 2,599,750 772,000 --- 1st

Mar 2010 2,395,266 716,400

Apr 2010 2,326,818 662,800

May 2010 2,375,000 725,250

Jun 2010 2,300,467 665,600

Jul 2010 2,358,524 653,400

Aug 2010 2,273,000 657,250

Sep 2010 2,344,750 675,250

Oct 2010 2,454,667 675,000* --3rd viewers

Thru 10/22

I'll be the lone voice of dissent here. I think those numbers for The Talk were poor. Usually a new show as heavily promoted as I saw this one was, debuts higher.

Ron's last May sweeps came in 3rd in demos and I'll be interested to see how he scores this November. His October average so far is higher in viewers but lower than demos than.

OLTL 2010 Monthly viewer/demo averages:

Jan 2010 2,489,000 708,000 --- 2nd

Feb 2010 2,599,750 772,000 --- 1st

Mar 2010 2,395,266 716,400

Apr 2010 2,326,818 662,800

May 2010 2,375,000 725,250

Jun 2010 2,300,467 665,600

Jul 2010 2,358,524 653,400

Aug 2010 2,273,000 657,250

Sep 2010 2,344,750 675,250

Oct 2010 2,454,667 675,000* --3rd viewers

Thru 10/22

OLTL has picked up or regained quite a few viewers over the last two months. I didn't start watching until late September but the show moves at a good pace with the stories slowly building up towards a reveal. I'm used to Oakdale speed in which entire story arcs are told in 44 minutes. Also, I am loving Hannah and like the fact that she is not a one dimensional villian of the month. As for The Talk, the ratings have been really poor. CBS has a bad track record with this sort of format as a network with The Early Show being an example: Years back Early was presented as a The View clone. Also, I have never seen a worse looking, less attractive audience on any show! They do a fair amount of audience shots, more than most shows, and must be trying to send an 'every day people' message but no one fits the target demo.

GH has also had consistent declines, and this with a lot more money spent on it. For GH to actually lose ratings (I think including the valued demos) when Vanessa Marcil is back -- that takes some work.

I liked VM's last return though I was never a big fan of hers but this current story is a dud. I can't even blame her for failing as real blame lies 95%in Guza's horrid writing. Guza also failed JJ with some horrible Lucky writing, too, last year. Guza used to get energized by returns of his pets, but now he seems sunk in this morass that has swallowed Port Charles. It's a dark, dreary show.

I think something is fundamentally wrong with OLTL, especially in it's male characters and in its shame towards its best assets, but unfortunately that seems to be true for most soaps today, except for B&B, which for better or worse rigidly sticks to its core format.

JFP shattered OLTL's heart and soul from 98-2000. Malone was supposed to repair it back to his vision but instead replaced it with some god awful rewrites, maxi-pad tumor and Santi hell. I see RC making some attempts to repair/mitigate all the damage inflicted, notably with Bo/Nora and Todd/Tea reunions but RC's style is too plot driven. Frons blocked any real Buke resurgence by vetoing Kevin/Kelly/Joey so that sank GT's return from the start.

I disagree that OLTL's male actors/characters are so "fundamentally wrong." The male stars outside of early Bob Woods and Howarth's 93-98 run were never OLTL's best assets. OLTL was always famous for its female stars & their characters always outshone the males and drove more story. Rauch tried to flip that with shoving Bukes down our throats but Viki, Dorian and Tina remained far more popular then Asa/Clint/Bo. We remember Karen Wolek not Larry's acting. We remember Viki's multiple DID stories not Clint's response. Asa was larger than life and PC was a good actor but he never matched the caliber of RS' Dorian Lord.

I'm no fan of JPL's acting but I don't find him any worse than JdP who was a mugging fool a lot, too. ME can be one dull actor, but hey so was Clint Ritchie 95% of the time, frankly. My main complaint with TSJ is when he's bored, he practically yawns onscreen but I'll take him over Howarth's last GOOFY comedic Todd crap.

I find GH's males are in far worse shape than OLTL.

Marty did bring in a sustained ratings increase, and I'm not a fan of this character. It was only when the show told us that rape is love and that the rapist is the real victim that the ratings fell.

Looking at ratings archives, OLTL 2008 season was down -.2 from 2007. OLTL did spike in Nov 2008 when Marty was rescued and Todd arrested. But one month after Todd was freed, OLTL scores its best 2009 numbers for March sweeps that year.

2009 Monthly averages:

Jan 2009 2,453,947 808,600

Feb 2009 2,513,750 769,500

Mar 2009 2,691,950 820,000

Apr 2009 2,446,917 748,600

May 2009 2,353,900 780,600

Jun 2009 2,531,864 766,500

Jul 2009 2,515,571 745,800

Aug 2009 2,365,400 745,800

Sep 2009 2,477,000 740,400

Oct 2009 2,430,400 741,800

Nov 2009 2,532,750 736,500

Dec 2009 2,430,400 648,400

Edited October 31, 201015 yr by TeamEric

OLTL has picked up or regained quite a few viewers over the last two months. I didn't start watching until late September but the show moves at a good pace with the stories slowly building up towards a reveal. I'm used to Oakdale speed in which entire story arcs are told in 44 minutes. Also, I am loving Hannah and like the fact that she is not a one dimensional villian of the month. As for The Talk, the ratings have been really poor. CBS has a bad track record with this sort of format as a network with The Early Show being an example: Years back Early was presented as a The View clone. Also, I have never seen a worse looking, less attractive audience on any show! They do a fair amount of audience shots, more than most shows, and must be trying to send an 'every day people' message but no one fits the target demo.

Here's the 2009 vs 2010 OLTL monthly averages for comparison. The demos are down year over year but the viewership for October is up.

2009 Monthly viewer/18-49 demo averages:

Jan 2009 2,453,947 808,600

Feb 2009 2,513,750 769,500

Mar 2009 2,691,950 820,000 --- 1st

Apr 2009 2,446,917 748,600

May 2009 2,353,900 780,600

Jun 2009 2,531,864 766,500 --- 3rd

Jul 2009 2,515,571 745,800

Aug 2009 2,365,400 745,800

Sep 2009 2,477,000 740,400

Oct 2009 2,430,400 741,800

Nov 2009 2,532,750 736,500 --- 2nd

Dec 2009 2,430,400 648,400

2010 Monthly averages:

Jan 2010 2,489,000 708,000 --- 2nd

Feb 2010 2,599,750 772,000 --- 1st

Mar 2010 2,395,266 716,400

Apr 2010 2,326,818 662,800

May 2010 2,375,000 725,250

Jun 2010 2,300,467 665,600

Jul 2010 2,358,524 653,400

Aug 2010 2,273,000 657,250

Sep 2010 2,344,750 675,250

Oct 2010 2,454,667 675,000* --3rd

Thru 10/22

Now compare GH's trends:

Oct 2009 Averages

Oct 2009 2,596,750 887,000

Oct so far with Brenda (thru 10/22)

Oct 2010 2,491,667 800,333

GH is down in both viewers and demos. Worse news for Frons, GH is down from pre-Brenda July averages:

Jul 2010 2,538,600 806,400

We focus so much on OLTL's and AMC's failures, when GH (crown jewel MY ASS) is the real story here..

We focus so much on OLTL's and AMC's failures, when GH (crown jewel MY ASS) is the real story here..

A 1.6 and Vanessa Marcil was brought back....lol......Big Failure on her return.

I disagree that OLTL's male actors/characters are so "fundamentally wrong." The male stars outside of early Bob Woods and Howarth's 93-98 run were never OLTL's best assets. OLTL was always famous for its female stars & their characters always outshone the males and drove more story. Rauch tried to flip that with shoving Bukes down our throats but Viki, Dorian and Tina remained far more popular then Asa/Clint/Bo. We remember Karen Wolek not Larry's acting. We remember Viki's multiple DID stories not Clint's response. Asa was larger than life and PC was a good actor but he never matched the caliber of RS' Dorian Lord.

I'm no fan of JPL's acting but I don't find him any worse than JdP who was a mugging fool a lot, too. ME can be one dull actor, but hey so was Clint Ritchie 95% of the time, frankly. My main complaint with TSJ is when he's bored, he practically yawns onscreen but I'll take him over Howarth's last GOOFY comedic Todd crap.

I don't think Clint Ritchie was dull, I think he was understated, and he had good chemistry with the people around him. I have never really seen that with John, not since his first few years anyway.

OLTL used to be about women but most of those women have either been driven away or have been reduced to silly roles. Nothing is about them. Everything is about what the man feels. These men either don't care about anything, or they are repulsive/empty characters played by lousy actors. That OLTL revolves around Todd, John, Rex, the Fords -- I don't believe any of these people can carry a show.

If you're going to make a show all about men, at least make the men interesting. ABC soaps do not know how to do that.

Edited October 31, 201015 yr by CarlD2

I agree with most of the criticisms about OLTL. One thing that I think separated OLTL from the other soaps was its diverse cast (another reason I liked NBC's short-lived "Generations", whose cast was half minority). Now, however, OLTL is just as "lily white" as every other soap. Most of those actors/characters who have recently departed have been minority roles, while most of those actors/characters introduced recently (the Ford family, etc.) have been white.

In addition to the decline in diversity at OLTL, the storylines seem to be recycled (OLTL may be trying to be more "green", but this is ridiculous). How many times has the character of Robert "Bobby" Ford been beat up? How many characters have been kidnapped or held against their will? Every (prominent) male character is either an idiot or a jerk, or both. Rex may be somewhat of a comic relief character, but his attachment to a "Deal or No Deal"-style briefcase is absolutely absurd. This character is supposed to be a private investigator, but the way he acts, I don't know how he can find his own shadow.

OLTL may be gearing up for a change in direction. With ABC bringing ex-ATWT head writer Jean Passanante on, I wonder how long before she and current head writer Ron Carlivati are sharing head writer duties or Passanante promoted to head writer and Carlivati demoted to her assistant.

OLTL has been the every-soap. They've gone through a lot of changes. The Rauch era was almost entirely white, but very highly rated, until his last few years. Higley's time on the show seemed to get ratings for a few years and from the little I've seen, that was very exclusionary. What probably disappoints me most is, and I think Vee has talked about this before, is that there's a lack of "other" and of wrong side of the tracks, which is something else OLTL used to do well. I don't know if the Fords are supposed to fit this bill, but it doesn't really work. It would have been like casting Jameson Parker as Marco Dane.

I think some of their problems are down to the decline of the entire ABC lineup -- considering how many years OLTL has been called the least wanted of the main three ABC soaps, to see them about the same as AMC and GH in numbers is still a bit strange sometimes. But the rest is just that the show has become very generic and probably what annoys me the most is the lack of strong female characters. It's pretty shocking, if you sit back and look at it from afar, at what has been done to a lot of the female characters over the last decade, and more and more the last few years. I think OLTL is a show which if it needs anything, needs strong female characters.

A 1.6 and Vanessa Marcil was brought back....lol......Big Failure on her return.

But ATWT was STILL...canceled.

ALL of ABC is in a shambles. It doesn't matter which show you watch they're all screwed up. AMC is stuck in the demos, OLTL is anemic at best and Brendapalooza did nothing for GH.

The problem is the management[.

.

LOL at your Brendapalooza comment....haha..so true.

Edited October 31, 201015 yr by Soapsuds

I agree with most of the criticisms about OLTL. One thing that I think separated OLTL from the other soaps was its diverse cast (another reason I liked NBC's short-lived "Generations", whose cast was half minority). Now, however, OLTL is just as "lily white" as every other soap. Most of those actors/characters who have recently departed have been minority roles, while most of those actors/characters introduced recently (the Ford family, etc.) have been white.

What? You don't count the Dayplayer Evans family as diversity?! And don't the Fords have a Latino great-great grandcousin twice removed? What more do you expect? This isn't BET for God's sake!

We focus so much on OLTL's and AMC's failures, when GH (crown jewel MY ASS) is the real story here..

ALL of ABC is in a shambles. It doesn't matter which show you watch they're all screwed up. AMC is stuck in the demos, OLTL is anemic at best and Brendapalooza did nothing for GH.

The problem is the management.

Edited October 31, 201015 yr by marceline