As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Mitch]

I think the fans as usual over reacted. In the original storyline, Lisa left Tom to go to Chicago to start a new life didnt she? It was entirely possible for the Lisa of that time to abandon a child. I think that Marland and Co. wrote the reasons well and as was stated, Lisa wasnt the same person she was back then. For the first time Lisa actually had to deal with her past bad behavior..(and I am not one of those people who thought Marland was a god...that scene was so creaky and unnatural "Well, hello father, grandmother, and who is this beautiful woman?" plus the Scott actor was too old to be playing this part..(IMO)

The background music was freaky!!!

[Khan]

I thought so, too.

Doug Marland was my all-time favorite writer, precisely because he was extremely meticulous whenever it came to history and character. Yes, I could have done without some of the Lily-worshipping (LOL!), but I feel confident in saying he never had any character behaving inappropriately w/o providing a reasonable and accurate motivation first.

[Soapsuds]

love the clip...nice to see Brock on there too. Em and Barbara were the best. Things werent the same when Melanie left.

[saynotoursoap]

For all of Doug Marland's attributes as a writer, he had a remarkably bad sense of dialogue. His dialogue was probably the worst of the most talented soap writers, managing to be even more expository and monotonous than Irna Phillips' which was some feat.

I disagree regarding Scott Eldridge. Joseph Breen, the actor playing Scott, in real life is six years younger than Scott Holmes, who played half-brother Tom. The ages would be almost perfect. I think people assume Scott should be so much younger because Our Private World aired in 1965, but if the writers followed SORASing and character history, Scott should have been much older. Also, I think Joe Breen looked older than his actual age because by this time HIV affected his appearance, which was part of the reason P&G dumped him. This never sat well with me, and was a prelude to injustice that would befall Michael Zaslow a few years later. I loved Scott's reticence at being part of Lisa's life and the problems it created for Tom and Margo, particularly Tom, who could be an annoying, stuffed shirt, tightass. I felt the family needed something to shake it up a bit. When Scott returned with a younger, hunkier actor, to me it did not work. He seemed more of a pest than a real threat to Tom.

Edited June 9, 2011 by saynotoursoap

[saynotoursoap]

I am in love with Marie Masters! She drew me to ATWT in 1972, and I was beyond thrilled that she returned a year later. The later stories, in 1973 and 1974, truly showcased her abilities. She was so phenomenal, it did not matter that John Colenback was no longer playing Dan. Marie was mesmerizing. I cannot applaud her talents enough.

I really do not have an opinion of Dean Santoro's Paul Stewart. Dean was written out within three or four months of my involvement with the drama. Paul was a rather thankless character. Irna Phillips men were usually milquetoasted wimps. You watched for the incredible women like Marie, Eileen, and Kathy Hays. The only thing that ever really rubbed me wrong about the Stewart boys was that they were far too old, as was Tom Hughes; however, you had to accept that inconsistency in order to enjoy an Irna soap.

You are correct. ATWT was very underrated in the 70's. Personally, I would watch the 1972-77 era before I would watch Marland's era from the 80's. There was much good about ATWT in the 70's, and particularly in the 1974-76 years.

Edited June 9, 2011 by saynotoursoap

[OldSchoolSoapFan]

Thankfully, we saw the emergence of men of substance in the 1970s with RYAN'S HOPE, GENERAL HOSPITAL and ONE LIFE TO LIVE. ABC was truly a pioneer in that regard.

[saynotoursoap]

Paul Raven, I just saw this. I did not intend to ignore your questions, sorry.

The Amy storyline was not handled well at all. The first mention of Amy came just as the Susan/Dan/Liz story was winding down. Penny contacted Chris and Nancy out of the blue with news that her marriage to Anton was troubled. If I remember correctly, she sent a letter stating that there were problems between Anton and a young girl named Amy. I had only watched ATWT for about six months at this point, but I do not believe Amy had been mentioned previously. From my memory, it was played ambiguously, as if Anton may be having an affair with a younger woman. Chris and Nancy went to Europe to intervene. When they returned, they had a young Asian woman with them, whom they referred to as their granddaughter. Apparently after Phoebe Dorin's Penny left Oakdale in 1971, Penny married Anton offscreen. I am not sure whether she adopted Amy before or after her marriage. I assume it was before since her surname was Hughes, but Anton and Amy did not have a close relationship. Amy felt that Anton was not accepting of her, and she was insecure about living with the couple.

Amy's mother had been an American and her dad Thai. They were killed, and Amy went to an orphanage, where Penny found her. Amy knew that her mother's parents were living in San Francisco. I think their last name was Cummings. Amy wanted to find them. Shortly after she arrived in Oakdale, she began to use her father's surname. She was interested in hunky med student Peter Burton. Peter's mother Grace was a friend of the Hughes family, but she was also somewhat bigoted and a snob. Remember, the U.S. was still involved in Vietnam, which was a very touchy subject, with prejudice against persons of any Asian descent. Grace's reaction hurt Amy terribly.

Irna Phillips introduced Amy shortly before being fired for the last time in 1973. It is my feeling that she was attempting to tell the Mia Elliott story from Love is a Many Splendored Thing, the soap she created in 1967 and left when one of CBS's objections was the romance between Amerasian Mia and an American. Like Love Is, Amy's story was ultimately truncated quickly.

The Hughes family helped Amy track down her grandparents. In an unrelated story, Bob Hughes was having problems with Rick Ryan, who resented Bob's relationship with Jennifer. Rick was a med student, cocky and a loose cannon. He had an older patient named Mrs. Parsons. Rick ignored Bob's conservative approach to Mrs. Parsons' treatment for his own, which endangered her life. Bob had Rick put on probation at the hospital. When Bob went off to Florida and had a one night stand with Kim, back in Oakdale, Rick was laying the charm on Mrs. Parsons to get her to speak up for him with Memorial's administrators. She did, and Bob was furious when he returned and found Rick off probation.

As it turned out, Mrs. Parsons was actually Amy's grandmother. After Amy's mother Elaine had died, Mrs. Cummings had divorced her husband, who had been the one to object to Amy's father being Asian. She remarried a man named Parsons and moved to Oakdale. Mrs. Parsons and her new husband welcomed Amy with open arms, insisting they wanted to be a real family to her. By this point, Irna had been fired and replaced by the Soderburgs. Amy just vanished from the scene during the summer of 1973, and later, Chris and Nancy mentioned that she had returned to live with Anton and Penny overseas.

Edited June 10, 2011 by saynotoursoap

[DRW50]

That's fascinating. It's kind of pathetic to sit back and look at how many times over the years soaps chickened out of telling stories about Asian characters.

Were you surprised when they had Amy make a few appearances in the late 80's? Did you think she'd just been forgotten?

In her last appearance, at Nancy and Mac's wedding, there was this strange moment, a way she looked at Paul, or her being nervous, that made me wonder if they were planning story for her that never materialized.

Did it seem true to Penny's character that she would marry some race car driver (did viewers ever see him) and then spend the rest of her life in Europe with him?

[Paul Raven]

Thank you so much for that information regarding Amy Hughes.That is something I have never seen detailed before.

According to old cast lists Irene Yah Lung Sun played Amy. In the late 70's she was on Love of Life as Kim,the lost love of Tony and an obstacle to Bambi and Tony's romance.

I believe that Wiliam Prince and Augusta Dabney played Mr and Mrs Parsons. Christopher Hastings was Peter,Eugenia Rawls was Grace and Laurie Heinemann was Marion Graham Burton.

What was Marion's connection to Peter and Grace?

When the Soderbergs took over what characters were dropped and introduced?

It seems Amy,the Burtons and Rick were dropped and Grant,Joyce,Giland Jay Stallings were introduced. Am I missing any?

Konrad Matthei was the first Grant.How long did he last? It seems odd he was cast as he had played Roy McGuire for a few years in the late 60's and surely viewers would still remember him.

[Mitch]

Total agreement on Marland's dialogue...my god was that scene creaky and just plain unnatural. But then again, my main problem (really only problem) with Marland's writing is that he it was so damn cold and waspy. I always loved ATWT but I "liked," GL better in that the characters were warm and emotional and more "real," even the BIG characters like Alexandra, Reva and Roger. Again, my dream writing team would have been Marland and Long...he would have kept her in line and true to history and she would have made the characters more vibrant and alive and warm and yes, sexy.

Loved Breen as Will but hated him as Scott, never felt he was Lisa's kid, but then, Scott Holmes Tom didnt seem like a kid of Lisa and Bob. I am in the minority in that I liked the hunky younger Scott with the great chest. I think he came off more as Lisa's kid, funny, flirty, sexy, selfish but not mean spirited, and someone to drive stuffy Tom nuts.

[DRW50]

I wonder if Marland knew some of his limitations and that's one of the reasons that Liz Hubbard got to have so much leeway over the dialogue. Looking back at those episodes she really does seem to have such a reign over a lot of her scenes that she didn't have after he passed away...the closest was probably the show's last year, when Goutman probably didn't give a crap and she got to go back to the Lucinda I knew.

I think I would have liked Wert more if they'd had him in more story with Lisa, instead of the quad with Mike, Rosanna, and Carly.

Mitch, did you see the Digest 1988 critique of ATWT I posted a few days ago?

Edited June 10, 2011 by CarlD2

[Mitch]

I did, and I love that they dissed Lily and the line that Castle McKecknie doesnt fit in with Oakdale anymore (did it ever???) with the various "eaves dropping families," LOL. I remember the writer for the "Civil War," was a big fan of ATWT during that time, and he would take a break from his writing to see what was up in Oakdale and he would tell his wife that "Doorways and Windows," was on, as all the characters were constantly hanging out in doorways and at windows to happen upon the news of who their real father was.

[DRW50]

SOD covers the 1989 ATWT Christmas party.

[saynotoursoap]

Marion Graham was Peter's girlfriend. Mrs. Burton approved of Marion wholeheartedly, whereas she did not feel the same for Amy Hughes. However, Marion's family expressed concern about Peter's background. Peter had been adopted by the Burton family and never knew his real parents. There was somewhat of a stigma about adoption in this era. Part of it came from the idea that "criminal" genes could passed down from parents to offspring, and many people worried that children could inherit "bad seed" tendencies. Peter wanted to find out more about his background. Bob suggested that he discuss these feelings with Wally Matthews, a doctor who assumed Dan Stewart's medical practice. Wally was also a minister. However, something about Wally rubbed Peter the wrong way, and in Soapland, we know what that means. Wally was Peter's biological father. Wally had loved his first wife more than life itself, and when she suffered a heart attack and died while giving birth to their child, Wally fell into a horrible depression. He blamed the infant for his wife's death and gave Peter to an orphanage, where he was later adopted by the Burtons. Over the years, Wally had turned his life around through faith and regretted giving up his son.

Peter was very confused and impatient. He felt that Marion's family might be more accepting of him if he could offer her an easy life of wealth and privilege. When he received a cushy job proposal from an advertising agency, he considered changing careers, as he would be a low-paid med student for at least another decade. Marion attempted to convince Peter that such a move would later make him resent her. Wally spoke to Peter about how making rash decisions could have devastating effects in the future. Attempting to reach Peter, Wally told the story of his wife's death and how embittered he became to the point of blaming a son that he now loved. Wally's impassioned argumemnt ended with him confessing that he was in fact Peter's real father. Peter rejected him initially, but after talking things over with Marion, he accepted Wally. Peter married Marion, and they all left Oakdale so that Peter could continue medical school in another state.

I do not remember exactly how long Konrad played Grant, but I would estimate about three months. Grant first appeared in the autumn of 1973 when the Soderbergs began to wrap up Irna's stories and refocus the series. I believe that James Douglas took over as Grant circa February 1974. This is the date in my head, but without checking my references for verification, I may be wrong.

I will think about your other questions about stories/characters dumped and started by the Soderbergs. 1973 is a difficult year to keep straight in my head because there were so many changes in daytime that year: the cancelations of Love Is a Many Splendored Thing and Where the Heart Is, a WGA strike, and weekly preemptions of soaps for television coverage of the Watergate hearings. Everything seems to run together.

[saynotoursoap]

Yes, your cast is correct. Prince & Dabney were the Parsons, Irene Yah Ling Sun was Amy, and Chris Hastings (no relation to Don and Bob) and Laurie Henemann was Marion.

Edited June 11, 2011 by saynotoursoap