I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

31 minutes ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

perhaps. i just can’t recall any head writer getting the same deal. i mean is jill farren phelps getting royalties because she created the coopers on gl?

i expect there’s more to the sam hall/abc deal. 

Pam Long created the Coopers - NOT Jill Farren Phelps

1 hour ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

a couple of HWs told me that was not the case. it’s been a couple of years since i last spoke with him, but tom phillips, irna’s son, told me was still receiving royalties because she co-created days…

as for sam hall, why abc would have agreed to such an arrangement. 

Creating a show is different from creating characters.  So some show creators (and their estates) might receive royalties, depending on their original agreements/contracts. I don't believe soap opera creators are covered by the writers' guild rules, so creators are free to negotiate any kind of agreement then can get.  

If the story about Sam Hall is true, that would have been an extremely unusual contract, and well beyond the expectations of the writers' guild. Perhaps ABC offered him that as sort of a "signing bonus" to get him to take the head-writing job, but not for creating particular characters.   I have read comments from many former soap opera writers who claim the legend that writers receive on-going royalties for characters they create is absolutely false.  So I believe them.  

On 8/26/2025 at 11:15 AM, Reverend Ruthledge said:

It always baffled me why new writers were so reluctant to bring back old characters. Then, I read that writers always wanted to introduced new characters because they would be paid future royalties for their own creations. 

Back in 1987, Sheri Anderson was the head writer for Guiding Light, and she slowly started to expand the Bauer family. She introduced distant cousin Johnny Bauer. Then she added his parents, Lainie and Jack Bauer, to run "Company." Finally, Lacey Bauer was added as part of the Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael quadrangle. But Sheri Anderson wasn't done expanding the Bauer clan. On the drawing board was Johnny's brother Todd Bauer, and Frank Dicopoulos was hired for the part.

Then Sheri Anderson was abruptly fired, and Pam Long was reinstated as head writer. Pam promptly removed the majority of Sheri Anderson's characters. Frank Dicopoulos was no longer Todd Bauer. Instead he became mechanic Frank Cooper. The character of Lacey Bauer was dropped, and Frank's sister, Harley Cooper, became the fourth member of the Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael quadrangle. Lainie and Jack Bauer no longer ran "Company." Instead, Reva's mother, Sarah Shayne, came to town, was seeking employment, and promptly started running "Company," working alongside her ex-husband, Hawk Shayne.

This is one example of where one head writer would AXE characters created by their predecessor. In favor of inserting their own characters, they created.

Edited September 2Sep 2 by TheyStartedOnSoaps

1 hour ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

Back in 1987, Sheri Anderson was the head writer for Guiding Light, and she slowly started to expand the Bauer family. She introduced distant cousin Johnny Bauer. Then she added his parents, Lainie and Jack Bauer, to run "Company." Finally, Lacey Bauer was added as part of the Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael quadrangle. But Sheri Anderson wasn't done expanding the Bauer clan. On the drawing board was Johnny's brother Todd Bauer, and Frank Dicopoulos was hired for the part.

Then Sheri Anderson was abruptly fired, and Pam Long was reinstated as head writer. Pam promptly removed the majority of Sheri Anderson's characters. Frank Dicopoulos was no longer Todd Bauer. Instead he became mechanic Frank Cooper. The character of Lacey Bauer was dropped, and Frank's sister, Harley Cooper, became the fourth member of the Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael quadrangle. Lainie and Jack Bauer no longer ran "Company." Instead, Reva's mother, Sarah Shayne, came to town, was seeking employment, and promptly started running "Company," working alongside her ex-husband, Hawk Shayne.

This is one example of where one head writer would AXE characters created by their predecessor. In favor of inserting their own characters, they created.

In this case, it worked.

Ditto. The Wisconsin Bauers were epically bad. The actors who played Jack and Lainie weren't bad actors, but written badly. The girl who played Lacey was green as grass and beyond wooden. 

(Good Lord, who named these people, not realizing Ross' sister was also Lainie? Granted, she wasn't a huge character...but it's not like there weren't a multitude of other names to pick from.)

Another 1993 episode. This is May 24th, which has been up in part through a 14 minute fragment and a few scenes focusing on Lily disaffirming her adoption, but not in full that I'm aware of.

@Soapsuds @rsclassicfanforever 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Another 1993 episode. This is May 24th, which has been up in part through a 14 minute fragment and a few scenes focusing on Lily disaffirming her adoption, but not in full that I'm aware of.

@Soapsuds @rsclassicfanforever 

Thanks @DRW50

The show trying to make Martha look like Heather. 

17 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

Pam Long created the Coopers - NOT Jill Farren Phelps

i so connect jfp with bringing justin deas as buzz, i forget the coopers were created by and earlier regime. 

13 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

This is one example of where one head writer would AXE characters created by their predecessor. In favor of inserting their own characters, they created.

many, if not most head writers, brought on new characters and maybe didn’t axe previous characters, but rearranged storylines to make room for the newcomers — thinking douglas marland and the synders. 

but, the abc/sam hall is an outlier. i don’t know of any head writer who ever received royalties. 

2 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

but, the abc/sam hall is an outlier. i don’t know of any head writer who ever received royalties. 

Considering how Pam Long moved so swiftly to axe the Wisconsin Bauer clan to install the Cooper family, that she might have negotiated a royalty payment to return to Guiding Light.

This is speculation. But as a condition of her returning as head writer, she would receive a lifetime royalty for any new family she creates on the show. This is a show BUSINESS; people are always looking out for themselves. So while writers might not receive a royalty for any new character they create, some head writers might have the clout to negotiate a contract that has nothing to do with the writers guild.

Sam Hall could have recognized the value ABC was gaining from his creation of the Buchanan clan and likely made it a condition of his return to receive a lifetime royalty. Pam Long might have done the same. After seeing how her creation of the Shayne family took off, she wasn't about to ripped off a second time. She might have stipulated in writing that if P&G wants her back as Head Writer, she requires a lifetime royalty if a new family she creates becomes successful (The Coopers).

Edited September 2Sep 2 by TheyStartedOnSoaps

Watching some 2002 episodes and I feel like they wasted Colleen Dion on a throwaway temporary character like Dahlia. I'm not familiar with any of her other roles but apparently she's been on a lot of soap operas but none of them very long-term. I wonder why it never stuck. She gives me really good energy and of course she has the looks. She looks like she would have fit in with the cast. 

21 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

Back in 1987, Sheri Anderson was the head writer for Guiding Light, and she slowly started to expand the Bauer family. She introduced distant cousin Johnny Bauer. Then she added his parents, Lainie and Jack Bauer, to run "Company." Finally, Lacey Bauer was added as part of the Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael quadrangle. But Sheri Anderson wasn't done expanding the Bauer clan. On the drawing board was Johnny's brother Todd Bauer, and Frank Dicopoulos was hired for the part.

Then Sheri Anderson was abruptly fired, and Pam Long was reinstated as head writer. Pam promptly removed the majority of Sheri Anderson's characters. Frank Dicopoulos was no longer Todd Bauer. Instead he became mechanic Frank Cooper. The character of Lacey Bauer was dropped, and Frank's sister, Harley Cooper, became the fourth member of the Cameron/Dinah/Alan-Michael quadrangle. Lainie and Jack Bauer no longer ran "Company." Instead, Reva's mother, Sarah Shayne, came to town, was seeking employment, and promptly started running "Company," working alongside her ex-husband, Hawk Shayne.

This is one example of where one head writer would AXE characters created by their predecessor. In favor of inserting their own characters, they created.

Sorry to go off-topic in the ATWT thread, but this is not accurate. Johnny was introduced in the summer of 1986 during the Mary Ryan Munisteri period. The Joe Manetta/Sheri Anderson period brought back Bea Reardon to run Company, introduced Sarah and Rusty Shayne, and then added Lacey around June 1987. Lacey and Bea were dropped around the time Pam Long returned. The Pam Long period introduced Jack and Lainie and had them run Company until Pam wrote them out. I think they only lasted a year at the most.

2 hours ago, Markjeh said:

Watching some 2002 episodes and I feel like they wasted Colleen Dion on a throwaway temporary character like Dahlia. I'm not familiar with any of her other roles but apparently she's been on a lot of soap operas but none of them very long-term. I wonder why it never stuck. She gives me really good energy and of course she has the looks. She looks like she would have fit in with the cast. 

I think Colleen generally preferred shorter runs. She left B&B repeatedly and she was popular on there.

23 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

Sorry to go off-topic in the ATWT thread, but this is not accurate. Johnny was introduced in the summer of 1986 during the Mary Ryan Munisteri period. The Joe Manetta/Sheri Anderson period brought back Bea Reardon to run Company, introduced Sarah and Rusty Shayne, and then added Lacey around June 1987. Lacey and Bea were dropped around the time Pam Long returned. The Pam Long period introduced Jack and Lainie and had them run Company until Pam wrote them out. I think they only lasted a year at the most.

My mistake: Johnny Bauer was created by Mary Ryan Munisteri. My point about Sarah Shayne was that Pam booted Jack & Lainie from running "Company" and replaced them with Sarah & Hawk running "Company." As Pam eventually wrote out Jack & Lainie in favor of elevating Sarah & Hawk.

17 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think Colleen generally preferred shorter runs. She left B&B repeatedly and she was popular on there.

That's definitely possible. It was an assumption that the shorter stints were against her will. I didn't know she left B&B voluntarily. 

17 minutes ago, Markjeh said:

That's definitely possible. It was an assumption that the shorter stints were against her will. I didn't know she left B&B voluntarily. 

Weirdly, I inquired about her a few weeks ago in the B&B classic thread. Did she leave B&B voluntarily? I thought she was great as Felicia until they asked her to play confrontation scenes opposite Bobbie Eakes (as rivals in a love triangle) and all those scenes fell flat.