I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I do wonder if they transferred any of those qualities to Margo, unless they planned for an entire family of "loose" (as they used to say) women (and loose Craig). Then again once Anne Sward took over as Lyla, that side of her personality seemed to fade. 

Such a lost opportunity due to Helen Wagner being driven off ATWT as we never got to see Nancy react to Tom being with a woman with had been kept by James Stenbeck. (a few scenes for the wedding weren't going to cut it)

The show lost so much with the years Nancy and Chris were sidelined (the Dobsons would trot them out to have one line and then disappear..) I would have loved to see judgey Nancy looking down at Margo, and Chris being more open to her as his own sister was screwing Ellen's very married dad. They actually had DM still on contract when Margo worked for Tom and they missed an opportunity to have him be grandfatherly to her and run interference with her and Tom.  Margo could be..abrasive at that time, so it would have been cool to see a softer side with Chris. Though we NEVER got to see Lisa's reaction to Tom being with John's daughter...especially since Margo and Lisa would both be stubborn, but they made Lisa such a silly flighty thing then. 

1 hour ago, Vee said:

How long/often did they play Andy (DeFreitas or otherwise) with his grandparents before Chris died? I'm assuming Andy was not seen much at all before Wagner and McLaughlin first left pre-Marland/Horgan in '81, so was it only over the course of the prior year or two before McLaughlin's death?

 

Yes, it was not long...at first Andy was freaked out by having to deal with "old" people (as no one on soaps besides the core seems to have grandparents..) and Nancy was still being played as her strong willed no nonsense self (except of course with Lisa, who could have blown Judge Lowell on Main Street and Nancy would be mad at people for being mean to a girl with a zest for life.) 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I still would love to know who "K.C. Collier" was.  I've never seen that name pop up anywhere else.

Someone had posted they thought it was Taggert???

2 hours ago, Khan said:

I still would love to know who "K.C. Collier" was.  I've never seen that name pop up anywhere else.

Yes pretty sure it was Millee Taggart as witnessed by the fact that she and Tom King were long timer writing partners and she was listed on their next  writing stint.

Wasn't it the case that P&G didn't want actors on their shows to be recognized as writers? hence Don Hastings was CC Matthews etc - but once Millee left SFT she could use her own name.

On 1/7/2024 at 5:23 AM, Paul Raven said:

To me that was the worst of the Dobsons - it just wasn't ATWT. That zany ,larger than life stuff was a turn off.

My thoughts exactly 

4 hours ago, Vee said:

I remember seeing a few instances of that. How long/often did they play Andy (DeFreitas or otherwise) with his grandparents before Chris died? I'm assuming Andy was not seen much at all before Wagner and McLaughlin first left pre-Marland/Horgan in '81, so was it only over the course of the prior year or two before McLaughlin's death?

Only a couple of years at most and the chess matches were sprinkled throughout the last year or so, which is enough to establish a bond between characters. It’s the reason why I think when soap fans make excuses for these writers who can’t even write a decent story that sees family members interact on a regular basis, I always see them as being full of sh*t. It doesn’t take a superbowl budget to write a handful of mini scenes and sprinkle them in on occasion. Yes, you have to plan them but it’s not rocket science.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Unfortunately, finding a lot of that time frame is spotty. 

I've been impressed with what I have seen of how Hank was handled, especially given the era and P&G's conservative views and audience. We see explicit homophobia, but not done in a cartoonish manner, and they don't try to do what, say, AMC later did with Michael Delaney and make sure we know that he's a macho sports loving broski - through his run he remains closest to characters like Iva and Barbara, and on the outskirts of Oakdale. 

I do think it might have been more interesting if Hal had been homophobic (initially, anyway) instead of having him as accepting mostly to generate conflict between Paul and Hal.

I do think Marland may have been trying to write against type, go against the expected route. Hal would have been the expected choice-beer loving, bowling and avid sports fan, a blue collar cop who openly was unrefined and often felt awkward about fitting into Barbara’s world. I think that’s why Paul was probably made the homophobic one in the piece. No one would really expect the son of a fashion designer, especially one so young (with the assumption that his youth and milieu would make him more socially progressive). I also think, Marland probably realized that because Paul was so callow, he could more easily reform Paul’s prejudices without permanent damage to the character, whereas with Hal, who knows? I think that the Kirk Anderson character was able to reform from his homophobia but he was a jerk at that time, he wasn’t supposed to be seen as the kind of guy that Hal was.

 

@DramatistDreamer That's very true about Hal. (I can't remember if Ben Hendrickson was gay or not - that also may have been a factor)

@Soapsuds Thanks. Never seen that news clip before. Given the other recent thread it's fitting to hear Marland talking about soaps being ashamed of themselves.

Edited January 10, 20241 yr by DRW50

7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

@DramatistDreamer

@Soapsuds Thanks. Never seen that news clip before. Given the other recent thread it's fitting to hear Marland talking about soaps being ashamed of themselves.

I hadn't seen it before either. Maybe back in 86? Helen Wagner sure comes off gruff at times in the interview.😂 Resembles the Nancy people described before SBH and Douglas Marland arrived as HW to change her attitude.😂

7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

@DramatistDreamer That's very true about Hal. (I can't remember if Ben Hendrickson was gay or not - that also may have been a factor)

i've always heard he was and assumed that was part of what he'd long been dealing with. But I'm hesitant to make assumptions about a personal history that was so troubled with someone who passed away under such tragic circumstances.

Edited January 10, 20241 yr by Vee

7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

@Soapsuds Thanks. Never seen that news clip before. Given the other recent thread it's fitting to hear Marland talking about soaps being ashamed of themselves.

nor had i. appreciate it!

Thanks @Soapsudsthat was truly a joy to watch. Excellent find.
Seeing the set pieces made me a little misty-eyed. It was also great to see a great conversation between actors and the head writer- they genuinely seemed to enjoy sitting down and talking about their show. And yes, that clip of Marland talking about daytime soaps acting ashamed of their roots seems especially relevant like @DRW50 said. Someone needs to send a clip of that discussion, especially that snippet across social media and to every soap vlogger out there.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

i've always heard he was and assumed that was part of what he'd long been dealing with. But I'm hesitant to make assumptions about a personal history that was so troubled with someone who passed away under such tragic circumstances.

Wasn’t Hendrickson also a caregiver to two family members who were gravely ill? As someone who was a caregiver to loved one who passed away less than a year ago, I can tell you that it can leave a deep and painful impact that you struggle with, it can also be depressing and if you don’t get help, devastating, I would imagine.

@DramatistDreamer

It got me tear eyed too.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Wasn’t Hendrickson also a caregiver to two family members who were gravely ill? As someone who was a caregiver to loved one who passed away less than a year ago, I can tell you that it can leave a deep and painful impact that you struggle with, it can also be depressing and if you don’t get help, devastating, I would imagine.

yes — his mother and brother. after he died, his nephew released a few of the notes he left to people magazine, one of which said something to the effect that “every aspect of his life was tinged with sadness.”

it sounded as though he had been depressed for some time. 

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Seeing the set pieces made me a little misty-eyed. It was also great to see a great conversation between actors and the head writer- they genuinely seemed to enjoy sitting down and talking about their show. And yes, that clip of Marland talking about daytime soaps acting ashamed of their roots seems especially relevant like @DRW50 said. Someone needs to send a clip of that discussion, especially that snippet across social media and to every soap vlogger out there.

So true. Sadly many of those same people who could have used this clip (some of whom went on to write for soaps themselves) would likely say that failed camp and ludicrous plots are what soaps should be.

6 hours ago, DRW50 said:

So true. Sadly many of those same people who could have used this clip (some of whom went on to write for soaps themselves) would likely say that failed camp and ludicrous plots are what soaps should be.

I am not a fan of most social media platforms these days but there is something about the inherent nature of the public forum that can make people reconsider their views when confronted by the actual words on video, even if it doesn’t get them to eat their words.

Some amazing set pics: