I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

On 10/16/2021 at 8:46 PM, Vee said:

I think Finn is actually great, but until recently I'd never seen her in anything other than Tremors which I've loved for decades so I'm a bit biased.

Speaking of which, a couple years ago when she got into that legal trouble, I went to look for information on the conclusion of that case and stumbled upon (much to my chagrin) legions of fanboys lusting over those scenes in Tremors where she was down to her skivvies. There were GIFs and guys gushingly expressing their long-held crushes for her. So the implications of a poster that Finn was not attractive enough to somehow 'compete' with Emily for Tonio, which never happened, by the way, (although I think there is some confusion with Jennifer Ashe, who was sporting a short 'do during that storyline), but there are clearly fanbases of dudes who'd disagree with that assessment.

I'm actually glad that ATWT was never really one of those soaps were just looks were an avatar for desire or attraction. I mean, if a character like Hal Munson (no offense to dearly departed BH, who was a highly talented actor with vast range) could be desired by three women in the course of a year (two which expressed a willingness to fight for him), I think people should use that same lens when discussing the spectrum of attraction and desire for the women characters.

I remember the original Rick Ryan, Con Roche (for some reason I seem to think his name was pronounced Ro-SHAY, but that might be wrong), an angry young man who did not want his mother Jennifer (Gillian Spencer) to marry Bob Hughes. I thought he was convincing in the role and was surprised when they wrote out this troublemaking character, although this was part of the era when odd and unfortunate character exits were common.

I also liked Donna Wandrey as the original Barbara Ryan, recognizing her of course as Roxanne Drew from DS. She was quite lovely. I recall a scene where she asked her mother, "Do you think it would be odd if a woman were interested in the same man as her mother?" and Jennifer replying, "I wouldn't be surprised if she were interested in the same kind of man." I got the impression TPTB hadn't decided if they were going to turn Barbara into a schemer, but they switched to a Bob/Jennifer/Kim triangle and wrote out Barbara and Rick, to my disappointment.

 

 

  

Edited October 22, 20214 yr by victoria foxton

I believe Rick Ryan was an intern, but that might not be right.

I also saw the infamous two episodes where, unknown to most of us viewers, Irna Phillips had stepped in preparatory to writing out just about everyone connected with the Stewart storyline. Susan found out that her new husband Bruce Baxter had had a vasectomy, so she got the marriage annulled and in days to come would sashay around Oakdale proclaiming, "I'm not Mrs. Bruce Baxter any more, I'm Mrs. Dan Stewart," calling herself by her previous husband's name.

The other part I recall is that Bob was doing some routine surgery on a patient named Maria, but she died during surgery and her distraught husband shot Bob, injuring his arm so that Bob feared he might never be able to perform surgery again. From Maria needing surgery to hubby shooting Bob happened in two days, rather than the two to three weeks it would normally have taken. It was all very herky-jerky.

Before Irna became upset that Jane House was appearing on stage in LENNY--and thanks to those who provided this background information--it made absolutely no sense to me as a viewer at the time--Jane House was a delight as the warmly sympathetic Elizabeth, who had a lovely English accent. She was a good friend to Lisa, the reformed though still impulsive Lisa. I never got to see the bad Lisa who made Eileen Fulton a star.

At a time when it was highly unusual to see promos for upcoming soap episodes, I remember seeing a promo which a voiceover called "A scene between brothers" as Paul Stewart (Dean Santoro) confided to his brother Dan (John Colenback) that he had had married Elizabeth knowing that she was carrying a child by another man. The other man, of course, was brother Dan, though Paul didn't know or suspect this.

Paul would be killed off. Elizabeth would be killed off on the stairs; Susan had left the child barrier open after her visit, and Elizabeth, rushing to rescue her daughter, injured a vital organ and died. Off to England went Elizabeth's brother Ronnie (Curt Dawson), who had a shy and gentlemanly crush on Lisa; Dan and his daughters; and baby nurse Peggy Reagan, played by the wonderful Lisa Cameron. All of these actors were good, and eliminating these characters made no story sense.

@Nicholas BlairThank  you for the details that synopses can't cover. 

I felt betrayed when P&G/Valente dumped many of my favorite characters in 1995, so much so that I never fully connected with the show again. Yet I can at  least step back and acknowledge many of them had reached a natural end or needed a rest. That does not seem to be the case here. 

It's a shame so many have no interest in soaps beyond the basics, as Irna's  brief  return to ATWT is a story  that would be fascinating  to see in a docuseries form. I guess at least we will always have the tribute episode GL did  for her in 2007. 

1 hour ago, Nicholas Blair said:

The other part I recall is that Bob was doing some routine surgery on a patient named Maria, but she died during surgery and her distraught husband shot Bob, injuring his arm so that Bob feared he might never be able to perform surgery again

It was Dan Stewart who operated on Maria and was shot by her brother Joe.

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

It was Dan Stewart who operated on Maria and was shot by her brother Joe.

Thank you, Paul. I had forgotten that Dan was a doctor, too.

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

@Nicholas BlairThank  you for the details that synopses can't cover. 

I felt betrayed when P&G/Valente dumped many of my favorite characters in 1995, so much so that I never fully connected with the show again. Yet I can at  least step back and acknowledge many of them had reached a natural end or needed a rest. That does not seem to be the case here. 

It's a shame so many have no interest in soaps beyond the basics, as Irna's  brief  return to ATWT is a story  that would be fascinating  to see in a docuseries form. I guess at least we will always have the tribute episode GL did  for her in 2007. 

Though it wouldn't have the appeal of the making of WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE?, a dramatized version of the story of Irna's return and her anger over Jane House's appearance in LENNY could be a fascinating look at the conflict over changing moral values at the time.

At least John Colenback was brought back for another run on the show, and Dan Stewart and his daughters became part of the ongoing story.

22 hours ago, Nicholas Blair said:

Elizabeth would be killed off on the stairs; Susan had left the child barrier open after her visit, and Elizabeth, rushing to rescue her daughter, injured a vital organ and died. 

Liz was trying to save Emily, not Betsy. Betsy was not a toddler then. Emily was. 

Who introduced the Dan/Susan/Elizabeth/Paul storyline?  Could it have been Irna’s daughter writing under a pen name?  That would have been an interesting twist if Irma resented a storyline her daughter created.  This plot was intriguing but seemed to drag on.  There seemed to be a fascination during this time period with brothers involved with the same woman (Mike/Ed/Leslie on TGL; Bill/Mickey/Laura on DOOL)

Who knows if Irna had issues with the morality of these characters (which is hard to believe since she gave us the Bob/Kim/Jennifer thing) or more likely just had issues with the Liz character and actress

The storyline I loved during this era was Michael Shea.  His marriage to Claire, affair and child with Lisa, marriage to Lisa, and murder and trial. There were so many facets to this plot including Ellen being revealed as Dan’s mother and his protege John Dixon was introduced.   Great storytelling 

21 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

Who introduced the Dan/Susan/Elizabeth/Paul storyline?  Could it have been Irna’s daughter writing under a pen name?  That would have been an interesting twist if Irma resented a storyline her daughter created.  This plot was intriguing but seemed to drag on.  There seemed to be a fascination during this time period with brothers involved with the same woman (Mike/Ed/Leslie on TGL; Bill/Mickey/Laura on DOOL)

Who knows if Irna had issues with the morality of these characters (which is hard to believe since she gave us the Bob/Kim/Jennifer thing) or more likely just had issues with the Liz character and actress

The storyline I loved during this era was Michael Shea.  His marriage to Claire, affair and child with Lisa, marriage to Lisa, and murder and trial. There were so many facets to this plot including Ellen being revealed as Dan’s mother and his protege John Dixon was introduced.   Great storytelling 

21 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

Who introduced the Dan/Susan/Elizabeth/Paul storyline?  Could it have been Irna’s daughter writing under a pen name?  That would have been an interesting twist if Irma resented a storyline her daughter created.  This plot was intriguing but seemed to drag on.  There seemed to be a fascination during this time period with brothers involved with the same woman (Mike/Ed/Leslie on TGL; Bill/Mickey/Laura on DOOL)

Love Ia Many Splendored Thing also had Laura/Mark/Iris around  that time

The Dan/Paul/Liz/Susan seemed to take off in 69 when Irna was still there. Everything I have read says she left in early 70. That means she was responsible for the Dan fathering 2 kids story which she later was reported to be against.

Seems odd that when she returned in 72 she continued the story for months and then started decimating it by killing off Liz and Paul and writing off Dan and Susan. Unless she thought the whole thing was too convoluted and she got bored and wanted to write for other characters?

Katherine Babecki is listed as an ATWT writer in the 60's and there is a belief that this was actually Katherine Phillips.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Katherine Babecki is listed as an ATWT writer in the 60's and there is a belief that this was actually Katherine Phillips.

yes, katherine phillips’s first husband was steve babecki. 

In addition to Bruce Baxter's vasectomy, this era also had Lisa's hysterical pregnancy. Lisa thought she was pregnant by Don Hughes (Peter Brandon), and when her friend Elizabeth (Jane House) found Lisa collapsed and bleeding, she said, "Lisa, did you have an illegal abortion?" (There may previously have been some discussion about whether Lisa was going to have a legal abortion; I don't recall.) However, this was only a hysterical pregnancy, and the blood was the result of the periods which had been suppressed, and this was mentioned in the dialogue.

All in all, this was a good era of ATWT. Peter Galman was perhaps the most charming and likable of all the actors who played Tom Hughes, and I certainly liked Gregg Marx and Justin Deas as well. Galman was stuck with the pure and priggish Carol Demming (Rita McLaughlin), and a measure of his skill was that he showed us how Tom could appreciate Carol's better qualities while accepting and moderating the less attractive qualities. When C. David Colson took over, Tom and Carol quickly became the most boring couple in all soapdom, as the writers realized, for they soon let Tom be seduced by Natalie (Judith Chapman), who managed to make Colson almost interesting, no small accomplishment. Meanwhile Carol became fascinated by diamond-in-the-rough Jay Stallings (Dennis Cooney), and for the first time I began enjoying McLaughlin's scenes.

8 hours ago, Nicholas Blair said:

In addition to Bruce Baxter's vasectomy, this era also had Lisa's hysterical pregnancy. Lisa thought she was pregnant by Don Hughes (Peter Brandon), and when her friend Elizabeth (Jane House) found Lisa collapsed and bleeding, she said, "Lisa, did you have an illegal abortion?" (There may previously have been some discussion about whether Lisa was going to have a legal abortion; I don't recall.) However, this was only a hysterical pregnancy, and the blood was the result of the periods which had been suppressed, and this was mentioned in the dialogue.

All in all, this was a good era of ATWT. Peter Galman was perhaps the most charming and likable of all the actors who played Tom Hughes, and I certainly liked Gregg Marx and Justin Deas as well. Galman was stuck with the pure and priggish Carol Demming (Rita McLaughlin), and a measure of his skill was that he showed us how Tom could appreciate Carol's better qualities while accepting and moderating the less attractive qualities. When C. David Colson took over, Tom and Carol quickly became the most boring couple in all soapdom, as the writers realized, for they soon let Tom be seduced by Natalie (Judith Chapman), who managed to make Colson almost interesting, no small accomplishment. Meanwhile Carol became fascinated by diamond-in-the-rough Jay Stallings (Dennis Cooney), and for the first time I began enjoying McLaughlin's scenes.

It seems that ATWT wasn't as "conservative" as it was made out to be.

Pictures of Colson make him look pretty sexy..it didn't show up on screen? Carol was an interesting character to pair him with in terms of..she was dull as dishwater.  I can't imagine that the writers didnt see the value of Tom being like his dad and falling for a Lisa type, (which he eventually did) and Lisa being put in the position of concerned mother. Was she extremely bitchy to Natalie as the synopsis don't show that.  I know that later Lisa adopted all the wayward youth of Oakdale, especially the vixens but I don't see her being cool with her son hooking up with one. As others said they aged Tom too soon and should have had shown him as a rebellious teen, college student.

Interesting that the Dobsons killed off Jay and immediately hooked Carol up with bad boy Steve (and that whole marriage soon to be never mentioned once Betsy enters the picture.)

48 minutes ago, Mitch said:

It seems that ATWT wasn't as "conservative" as it was made out to be.

When I saw scenes a few years ago on YouTube of Susan's "open marriage" with Dan Stewart in the 70s, that told me that ATWT was not as conservative as many had made it out to be. It could be pretty risqué at times, but it was often so subtly done, it could be easy for viewers to overlook this.