And that, my friend, is why I think General Hospital is even remotely successful in the demos. It comes on at 3pm in most places. By that time, most junior high and high school students are out of school. I know that in my days of high school, we were out at 2 and home by 2:18. Of course, while I was watching my AMC tape, I knew others in my class were watching GH live. So, it's not like the mob is General Hospital's magic formula to grabbing the 18-49 demo. It's just they have the luxury of being in a timeslot when most 14-17 teenagers are home, looking for something other than kid shows after school... and then take their viewing habit with them into college and so forth.

No lie, I'm playing Cafe World as I type this!

Yup, that's exactly when I got into OLTL (always caught the tail end, I was a Magnet student and had a longer commute than the walkers) and especially GH. GH was well-watched by girls and guys alike when I was in high school. I remember hearing a couple of girls talking about GL around the time I started to get into it, the Roger/Dinah, Alan/Tangie/Alexandra, Alan-Michael/Lucy/Brent a.k.a. Marian era, but I got the impression that more kids saw GL as fuddy duddy and GH was more youthful and hip. Which it was. There was also a lot of heart and soul in the show at that time with plenty of angst, depression and whatnot, teens dig that, and one helluva teen s/l with Robin and Stone. But also that family element with paents and grandparents, generations, that Lemay talks about.

DAYS and Y*R were the two top soaps when I went to school--and here in our market DAYS came on at 4pm, and Y&R at 5. (Days is now on at 2 here, and I know a LOT of people who were VERY upset--but they won't bother taping it, they've simply dropped it).

DAYS and Y*R were the two top soaps when I went to school--and here in our market DAYS came on at 4pm, and Y&R at 5. (Days is now on at 2 here, and I know a LOT of people who were VERY upset--but they won't bother taping it, they've simply dropped it).

Y&R was most popular when I was in school. It was the days before us po folks had a VCR (I got my first VCR 6 weeks after graduation, in 1987) so I audio taped every day (had my mother do it). and then I had this group of fag hags at school who would pump me for updates every day before class. Lauren/Traci was the THANG... but Dickson and Cooper and all the backstabbing in THOSE SL's, especially the "puzzle" SL was real tittilating for us teenagers at the time.

Cable is a different beast all together. Mad Men's ratings have climbed year after year but they're TINY. They're soap opera small. Mad Men is a prestige show, pure and simple (and I love it, don't get me wrong). It put AMC on the map as a viable tv network, wins tons of awards, and as you say actually has a buzz and gets people talking and fashions influenced etc, despite tiny numbers and so they wanna hold on to it.

Isnt it down like almost 20% from last season?

Mad Men can also sell ad time at a higer rate than soaps.

DAYS and Y*R were the two top soaps when I went to school--and here in our market DAYS came on at 4pm, and Y&R at 5. (Days is now on at 2 here, and I know a LOT of people who were VERY upset--but they won't bother taping it, they've simply dropped it).

Days was the only one when I was in school. I think it was because NBC was the closest thing to a local network we had. Supposedly the affiliate has one one of the highest local news ratings shares in the country because its only competition is a very low rent Fox station.

I'm currently working on my second college degree and have a class called Race, Gender, & Media, which has class discussions. Soap operas were part the material from the book we had to read last week (two badly written articles/chapters). This class had a very lively discussion a few weeks ago about their porn viewing habits, but none of the 40 of us in the room - myself included - would admit that we watched soaps.

In high school we were gung ho about it to the point that when one teacher was delayed because of a campus blood drive, we started watching Days while he was gone. Nobody laughed, nobody made fun of it. And to our credit, we were smart enough to turn it back to the usual station, The Weather Channel, when it ended. I can't remember if Passions or Another World was in the 2:00 slot at that time, but nobody wanted to see it.

Soaps aren't really worth watching much anymore, I find myself only watching in periodic stints when they have stories that hold my interest. The writing is a big part of it and the increased accessibility to spoilers has given more viewer the option to find out what is happening up to a week or two in advance. If it sounds cruddy, many viewers just don't bother.

The UK tends to let people make up their own mind and has a much wider variety of programming and channels which really do have their own identities and outlooks. The UK has trash and I'm sure a lot of viewers there feel like there is too much trash but there is still something of a full palate.

I'm not sure, when even the BBC now relies on trashy reality shows... There was a great piece in the Guardian recently that interestingly enough went on about why American tv was SO heads and shoulders superior to UK TV. Obviously saying either point is over the top, but, soaps aside, I don't think UK tv is significantly better. When I spent 6 months there I was shocked at how much waste there was on their tv.

Isnt it down like almost 20% from last season?

Mad Men can also sell ad time at a higer rate than soaps.

Right, Mad Men's ads tend to all be for fairly high end items like BMWs.

I only know the premier ratings: Broadcast dates Premiere viewers

(in millions)

1[41] July 19 – October 18, 2007 0.90

2[43] July 27 – October 26, 2008 2.00

3[45] August 16 – November 8, 2009 2.80

4[46] July 25 – October 17, 2010 2.92

I'm not sure, when even the BBC now relies on trashy reality shows... There was a great piece in the Guardian recently that interestingly enough went on about why American tv was SO heads and shoulders superior to UK TV. Obviously saying either point is over the top, but, soaps aside, I don't think UK tv is significantly better. When I spent 6 months there I was shocked at how much waste there was on their tv.

It's not so much about UK TV not having trash as it's about a diverse output. That is in the UK. The US has very, very generic shows now.

The other problem is that some UK reviewers tend to gawk at American shows and overrate them because they like the stupid caricatures. I can't see any other reason why a prominent UK paper would list The Sopranos, of all shows, as the best TV show ever.

Uhm just no.

What's killing soaps is recycled hack writers, idiots in charge who don't give a damn about the genre, recycled storylines and more

Combo of factors--hack writers being the most important factor. Also, the social stigma of soap watching has gotten pretty bad. Recently been thinking about how the soaps are so out of touch with 2010 society. Gen X and Y are waiting till well into their 30's to get married; meanwhile, on soaps, teenagers are getting hitched and divorced at a record pace. Also, people are waiting to have kids. On your average soap, stars are popping babies out faster than puppies. On ATWT, the female 'star' Carly has four with one on the way at 35. Soaps need to focus on more 'sex in the city' type issues--single women looking to make a mark on life while seeking Mr. Right.

It's not so much about UK TV not having trash as it's about a diverse output. That is in the UK. The US has very, very generic shows now.

The other problem is that some UK reviewers tend to gawk at American shows and overrate them because they like the stupid caricatures. I can't see any other reason why a prominent UK paper would list The Sopranos, of all shows, as the best TV show ever.

I think too that they are envious of the much larger budgets...

This thread has really spiralled into... Anyway, UK gawks at the stupid caricatures? That's why their most prominent writers praised many US shows (and with every reason to do so) and several articles have been written about the sad state of UK TV industry while American TV is flourishing?

Nevermind. Do not reply. I do not want to know.