Core of the Cast - Vets Speak Out

[Paul Raven]

Core of The Cast

This is the second in a series of frank discussions with daytime performers who pla 'core characters”. These characters have been the nuclei of their respective shows and are a part of the family structure that is so important to daytime television. Barbara Berjer (now ex Barbara GL) Don MacLaughlin (Chris ATWT) and Don Hastings (Bob ATWT) discuss the changes they've witnessed while they've been onscreen. The actors talked about this at an informal gathering at Mary Stuart's apartment.

As Barbara sat between her former ATWT co-stars, all three reminisced- and expressed their views on the changes in soap opera. Barbara played Claire Lowell on ATWT- Ellen's mother! But even before that, Barbara and Ann Flood (Nancy EON) were on the soap 'From These Roots'. “Ann was the good character and I was the bad one”, Barbara related. The actress went on to do Edge for a short stint and then played Claire on ATWT for six years. She was on GL for eleven.

Since it's premiere in 1956, Don has been playing Hughes family patriach, Chris. He's the 'Father Knows Best' of daytime television! Along with Helen Wagner (Nancy), Don helped guide the lives of children don, Bob and Penny, while heading a respected law firm.

One of Chris' sons is Bob Hughes, Oakdale's #1 good guy. He's a trusted doctor, good friend and a good listener. Don started his soap career on EON. “I said the first line in 1956. Then, in 1960, I joined ATWT. I heard how much money MacLaughlin was making”.

SOD What has been the biggest change since you started your soap career?

DM Getting old!

DH Me too!

BB Getting old!

DM And when you get old, they put you on an ice float and you go out to sea. That's the way it goes.

DH The whole content of the shows has changed. They're much more sensational now.

SOD How do you feel about the changes in storylines?

DH The first double bed with a couple in it was seen on daytime. Years ago, you couldn't have a double bed on television. Someone always had to have a foot on the floor.

BB One scene I did On GL involved the parting of Barbara's son Andy-he was going to jail. The interesting thing was that was when one of the young actresses on the show said to me, “You know, it's very sad that we're no longer relating to human situations any more. It's all so terribly superficial. We'll never get a chance too know that character.” That's true. All that's important today is the story. You don't see the development of a complete human being.

DH I think it's very tough on the young people, because they don't have longevity. We know our characters very well and the have depth. But so little background is being written for characters today.

SOD Have you been able to influence the writers?

DH Only by what they've seen on the screen.

BB I find it unusual to see that young actors are in contact with the writers.

DM I'm amazed.

DH The only time we talk to a writer is when they call us. And when they call, it's to say goodbye.

BB That's right.

DH No news is good news.

DM I remember when Irna Phillips and I were in the elevator and she was chiding me for changing my words. I said,”Irna, you write wonderful ideas”. I didn't tell her that I thought her dialogue stank sometimes. But I did say, “I like your ideas. But if you expect me the words verbatim. Now is our time to part.” And she agreed with me-it's the idea that's important. That was my contact with the writer.

DH It used to be a lot easier on the writers when the shows were a half hour. Each character was given a lot more color and a lot more depth and involvement. Whatever involvement you had was legitimate. Now I find myself gossiping and delivering messages and I'm the head of the hospital! They drag you in instead of involving you with the people you should be dealing with. One of the problems we have on our show is with the writing of events and incidents. We jump from one thing to another, like dot to dot-and sometimes the dots don't connect. We have a wonderful company who can do stories about real people. There's lots of mayhem and murder and bed to bed but our strong suit is family. We've lacked that for a long time and hopefully we'll get back to that. If we do, I think we might be number one someday. But if we try to copy other shows, we're doomed. Talking about the lack of seeing the family together on our show, GH did a 4^th of July picnic and we didn't and we're supposed to be a family show.

DM Thanksgiving and Christmas used to be sacred moments on ATWT. But in the last few years, we've all turned atheist.

BB On GL, the Bauers and the Norrises were basic families. Now they're bringing on new families. There is no reason to forget the basic families.

SOD Most of the new family members are young people. How do you feel about the youth explosion on soaps?

DM it's a fact they're putting young performers on to grab ratings. Some are very good and some aren't good at all. But they're all beautiful and there for a purpose.

BB It's a shame when the shows start to eliminate the older characters. I mean the characters who've been on the shows a long time. So many of the young people are inexperienced and, if they don't have people around them to learn from, how to act and professionalism, then the structure begins to shatter and fall. They can't go to school and learn this.

DH There's no time for directors to teach them.

BB They've got to learn from us. So when they eliminate us, they eliminate a whole training section.

DH ...a wealth of talent and technique

DM And experience.

BB Most of the people who grew with this medium worked in the theater and radio. We all had enormous media experience before we came on the soaps. Some of the younger people have no experience.

DM And earn a fortune!

DH Born too soon!

DM They've changed the rules on us!

DH We have it easier now than we did then, because the shows were live. You could separate the men from the boys. If you could do a live soap, you could do any job a director or producer asked of you. So you wound up with wonderful acting companies, Now we get kids who've only done commercials.

BB They've never been exposed to anything.

SOD What changes would you like to see on the soaps?

DH I'd like to see a smorgasbord on the show, since we have an hour now. We have to stop eliminating age groups. Most shows are cutting characters off until the oldest person is thirty three years old and that's not what America wants to see. If they watch, they're watching to see a novel unfold.

DM we're supposed to reflect life in America. And it looks like the towns consist of, as Don says, No one over the age of thirty three.

DH Someone told me the average age on one of the shows is 25. That's great for a ball club but not to tell a story on a soap.

BB And those viewers that are 25 aren't necessarily buying the products that are advertised on the show.

DH I think young people want to see what it's like to be 40 and 70-to see what problems those people face.

SOD Do you keep in touch with performers who've left your show?

DH I try to, but it's tough. You think of each other and run into each other once in a while.

BB when someone leaves a show, it's a difficult time for everybody. It's hard for the people on the show to keep in contact with those who have left.

DH In Barbara's case, she went immediately from ATWT to GL and we did keep in touch. But it's usually not easy because schedules are usually different.

SOD Is it hard for you to adjust to a new performer playing an established character?

DH it can be.

DM It depends on the rapport between the actors. It can be good or awkward.

BB I've had two experiences like that. First, when I replaced the actress who had been playing Claire on ATWT. The company spirit was incredible-very kind and gentle. On GL, I had a little difficulty, because the girl who had been playing Barbara was let go and everyone was fond of her.

DH I did the audition with Barbara when she was trying out for ATWT, Irna Phillips, the goddess of daytime television, was at the audition and said,”Miss Berger, would you please take off your hat?” Barbara said no! That was the end of that, but Barbara got the job. Irna was tough to work for,but she knew the business.

SOD To Don Maclaughlin. Now that Helen Wagner has left and Nancy is no longer on the show, how do you feel about Chris' role on the show?

DM It's a little puzzling, frankly. I work in the office,I don't go home. There's no Nancy at home. I feel it's not a complete picture. I'm a little unhappy, but what am I going to do? I miss having some valid family position on the show.

At this point,Barbara revealed she had been let go from GL. The actress' eyes were misty as she expressed her feelings about her departure from the soap.

BB Today I received my notice that I'm no longer on GL.I am the beginning of the elimination of the older people on the show. So what we're talking about is very pertinent. I have no rancor. We have a joke on the show,”We get fired and they get to hire two young bodies”

Barbara will be missed by her many GL fans. We hope she returns to the daytime scene soon. Perhaps ATWT's newest writers will realize that family, specifically the core characters like Chris and Bob Hughes, are important to the structure of the show. Its performers like these who can benefit the soap opera medium by sharing their knowledge and experience with young performers.

[DRW50]

Thanks for posting this! I'm sure it was a lot of work. I didn't realize Chris stayed on the show when Nancy left. I thought they both just disappeared.

Poor Barbara Berjer. I didn't know she wasn't the first Barbara on GL.

Many of their comments are even more pertinent today than they were then. It's funny to think even what we may see as a good period was not seen that way at the time, especially for GL, which I think was great then from what I've seen, yet even one of the young women on the show (I wonder who it was) said the show wasn't about people anymore.

You can see the sense of humor and bond that the two Dons had.

I can see why she would feel this way, since it was her family, but I wonder if you could ever call the Norrises a basic family.

[Paul Raven]

I have to agree, Carl re the Norris family. They were a big part of the early 70's but then it was just Holly from 75 on,and once she left,there really wasn't much for Barbara to do.

Augusta Dabney was the first Barbara. She replaced Elizabeth Lawrence as the lead in A World Apart. It seems that after she was dropped from GL,she went To AWA.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I liked Augusta so much on Loving -- it's a shame her ATWT and GL experiences weren't happier.

The family always seemed odd to me, Holly had father issues, Ken went crazy, Andy was a sleaze. I do wish we could see their early years, to see what type of family they were then.

I wonder how Barbara felt when GL had her come back in 95-96 for a few appearances. Of course at that time she was being killed off AW, which was such an awful mistake. Perhaps Laibson was doing her a favor at GL since he had worked with her at AW for years. I wish Rauch had been as kind -- I would have loved seeing Barbara interact with Ken in his brief return a few years later.

She was such an underrated actress.

[remos]

This is what I've been saying forever. The so-called "Glory Years" of daytime pushed all the core characters at that time back the the edges or off completely. It brought on a whole new slew of character who were then in their 20's/30's and basically took over. The complaints people have today are incredibly a-histsorical and fail to realize the vets of today WERE the new lauded characters a few decades ago, and are getting the same treatment they gave. It's not punitive, it's merely cyclical.

[Sylph]

WIN.

People are full of [!@#$%^&*]. As usual.

[All My Shadows]

This is a very interesting article with some good insight from the actors. I wonder where Mary Stuart was, considering they were at her place. I know she was vocal about the changes in that era.

It's a good reminder for those who act as if the early 80s were high times to be a soap fan. I don't see how, with most shows dropping long-running characters left and right and dramatically changing tone to fit with what other shows were doing. AMC spent what had to be loads of cash on a huge wedding for two characters who had been on the show for like a year.

[DRW50]

On this same topic, from a March 82 SOD, an interview about AW firing Beverly Penberthy. I often thought she left on her own because I can't believe how stupid it is to fire a very good actress who is still beautiful, has a long history on the show, was part of a very popular family, and who had connections to many characters. This is the type of thing which helped send AW to the ratings basement.

BEVERLY PENBERTHY LEAVES "ANOTHER WORLD"

Is It The End Of An Era?

By MEREDITH BROWN

It is never pleasant for viewers when a beloved actress leaves their show. But it is especially upsetting when that actress has been on the show for some 14 years, and the decision to leave is not her own.

For that reason, Beverly Penberthy (Pat Randolph, "Another World") decided to call a press conference at famed Sardi's Restaurant to explain to the public why she had left the soap.

Beverly looked spectacular in her black velvet knickers suit. It was hard to believe such a good looking woman might be cast aside because of the wave of youth on the soaps. However, that did seem to be one of the reasons she was written off.

Since April 1967 Beverly's Pat Randolph has killed two people, had an illegal abortion, drank too much too often, yet managed to raise her two children and cut out a fabulous career for herself. She was the pivotal moral force on "Another World"; Pat was always the "good" woman.

With ex-castmates Dorothy Lyman (Gwen Frame, now Opal Gardner, AMC) and Jennifer Leak (Olive Randolph) cheering her on, Penberthy, both poised and a bit nervous explained that "The new writer (Corinne Jacker) said she couldn't write for me anymore. You have to understand - and I'm not saying this is the reason I was written out - that a writer gets a financial residual for every new character she creates. Lots of new characters have been created on our show in recent months. There was no money if I stayed."

When asked if she had any plans for the future, Beverly laughed. "Do you know of any plays?" she asked. Then seriously, she admitted it would take some time to get Pat out of her system, she had no plans for the immediate future.

Finding work should not be difficult for Beverly. Aside from her television work, Penberthy has quite a list of theater credits. On Broadway she starred in "Plaza Suite," "Nobody Loves An Albatross," and "But Seriously." Her national tours include, "Barefoot in the Park," "Absurd Person Singular," and "Angel Street."

We at Soap Opera Digest are aware of the void that exists on AW without Beverly. For years she added a certain spark, beauty and vitality to the show. It was always a joy to watch her and we can only hope that she will show up on some stage, screen or film soon to entertain the rest of the world.

Below is an excerpt from Ms. Penberthy's speech:

"I'd like to say goodbye to my old friends and ask all of you to express my thanks to the loyal viewing audience with whom you have close contact. 'Another World' is a very different show today than the one I joined in 1967. The concept then centered on the Matthews family and the problems they managed to get involved in. It was a half-hour long, and it was life. The cast numbered about 15, we had two directors, one writer, and the stories had beginnings, middles and endings; the wrongdoers got their comeuppance.

"Everyone thinks that losing his/her job is a significant event, so you'll forgive me if I say that my leaving AW is the end of a concept and style that, until a couple of years ago, was the formula for success that made other shows emulate us.

"I find it difficult to say in one sentence what AW is about today. What it is not about is painfully clear. It is not about the Matthews or Randolph families. It is in a transitional period where there is at this time, no core, no center. I am not saying anything new to mention that the show is in trouble. Everyone has a reason for that. Procter & Gamble blames NBC, NBC blames Fred Silverman, and AW, in frustration, looks to the shows with higher ratings and copies them. For the last two years AW has hoped that sex, youth, and violence would put them back on top, So far, however, it hasn't worked. By going in that direction, we lost a large percentage of our faithful viewers, but at the same time, failed to gain the percentage we hoped of teenagers. Long-time viewers were tuned out when they saw their favorite characters slighted and their scenes reduced to recapitulation of teen escapades.

"I don't mean to say that soaps or any drama for that matter, should not deal with sex, youth, or violence. As an actress, and a viewer, I believe we can deal with any subject as long as it is done with some intelligence and taste.

"It will take some time for me to get over not being a part of that cast. I have been emotionally involved, not only as an actress, but with the whole production. But now I am told the show is going in a different direction. I wish all my fellow actors good luck - and I will just have to find a new direction for myself."

[Aaron]

Wow, a press conference at Sardi's...

Shows how much times have changed.

[MichaelGL]

I agree, the Norris family did seem like an odd family, perhaps ahead of its time, not your cookie cutter type of family you'd see in the early 70s. Stanley was this greedy and unfaithful business mogul in Springfield, and Holly was the daughter from the family Stanley had left behind. It was a family where I don't assume fans were meant to root for very much, not even for the long and suffering Barbara. From the synopsis and recaps I've read, it seems as if even though Ken, Andy, and Holly were all raised by Barbara, and not by their manipulative father, they still weren't subjected to the best of parenting. Sometimes Barbara would come down very hard on her children, perhaps even controlling and very judgmental; thus affecting her children Ken, Holly, and Andy greatly.

It makes one wonder, if not for the Norris's, who were we supposed to root for? Interlopers such as Janet Mason and Ed Bauer?

[YRBB]

You are absolutely right. A show could never survive without the influx of new characters. But it's somehow easier to accept the change when the writing is far better (which it usually was, compared to today's soaps) and the characters are more real, multidimensional and interesting.

[remos]

Was it truly better though, or did they just have more money to pull off ridiculous stories and no internet to dissect their every move within seconds? Somehow I think stories like the Ice Princess would have been panned just as badly as Toxic Fumes AND TPTB of the day might have done knee-jerk rewrites that totally ruined what was possible. I look back now and if you haven't got a lens of nostalgia, most of the "Glory Days' was really, really bad. Occasionally every show has wonderful dialogue/story, but we have that today too - it's just inconsistent and I think a large part of that is the entertainment culture we live with. Back in the day GM could have given the networks a big "up yours" and been allowed to do her thing. Sometimes I wonder what todays' writers would be able to pull off if the suits weren't breathing down on them all the time.

[DRW50]

The main difference is that the stories at the time made you care. A lot of people at the time cared about Luke and Laura, or they cared about the people back in Port Charles. What is there to care about now? Thugs. There is no interest now in actually caring about what fans might want. It's gone from trying to gain a new audience to trying to just go with the whims of the writer or producer or daytime executive.

[Vee]

Of course it's cyclical, and of course these things will always happen; soaps regenerate. But in the best of circumstances, they take the most essential parts of themselves along during the process. When Harding Lemay took over AW and purged much of the cast people thought it was the end of the world; today, Lemay's tenure is regarded as a golden age. A similar thing happened under Gloria Monty at GH who, for better or worse, saved that program and re-branded it into the show it is today; you could make a case for James Reilly doing that at DAYS, but I'd rather focus on, say, Pat Falken Smith or Sheri Anderson in that case. Linda Gottlieb re-made OLTL, Agnes Nixon renovated AW and GL, the Dobsons had their hands in everything, and Claire Labine took over from Monty. The list goes on and on and I'd be remiss to leave Marland out, who of course brought Don McLaughlin and co. back to ATWT and made Don Hastings and others very happy for years, while also using a new youth set and several new families.

Their complaints then are as valid as our complaints now. The times and the quality of product are simply very different, and/or much degraded. Procter & Gamble has now divested itself completely of the fierce investment in daytime drama that it once had. We have a sense of history. I know how good some of these people had it back then, in retrospect (though to be fair I think this was around the time that Bob Hughes, in a baffling move, married an international jewel thief played by Elaine Princi or something). But to them it was a sea change. And in the end, bad is bad is bad. There's no excuse for most of the daytime product currently being churned out.

[remos]

But we as a society cared about things. Today everything is disposable including our show allegiance.

I can remember my good Scotch Presbyterian grandmother actually stamper her foot in anger about something on a show, but when challenged by my father to stop watching if it bothered her, she was completely bewildered by the concept - you stayed loyal to Your Stories.

We don't do that today, so to blame that on writers/characters/stories fails to miss the point that as a North American society we're pretty emotionally bankrupt.