I take it you're the type who won't be satisfied until there are no more white faces on television, right? Only black ones. Then "diversity" has officially been accomplished, yes?

Whether they do or they don't... Say your piece, defend it to a rebuttal or two, and then if you haven't reconsidered or changed your opinion based on the ensuing discussion, then just stand behind it. Say that it is what it is and people can take it or leave it and go on posting somewhere else. Saves going around in circles and just frustrating yourself more. It's like the old abortion debate. Everything that can be said has already been said so you quickly just start beating a dead horse.

how the hell do you make so much sense! LOL you're right, of course..now Alvin.. honey child... I was HOPEFUL and OPTIMISTIC last year, thre is nothing wrong with that, and yes you DID rub it in my face, but I forgave ya! I suppose we have to accept that nobody can please everybody, and your'e gonna piss someone off no matter what you do.

Nothing wrong with pissing someone off no matter what you do, but Y&R no longer tries when it comes to minorities, anyone can see that.

Look at how a veteran actor like Kristoff St. John has only appeared like twice a month for like the past 3 years...

Look at how poorly the gays were treated on Y&R last year and then written out a few months afterwards.

Look how pathetic the women are on Y&R these days and lack a general backbone. Once strong and fierce characters like Jill have been turned into a pile of steaming and desperate crap.

Something is wrong with that picture, and the show needs to be taken to task for it, as does daytime as a whole.

No one wants one particular ethnic or minority group to dominate a show, but when the show acts as if minorities don't exist or barely tries with them, it's just disrespectful and telling. For that matter, why don't Asian, Jews, and Latinos exist on any soap or most soaps currently?

Edited July 26, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Nothing wrong with pissing someone off no matter what you do, but Y&R no longer tries when it comes to minorities, anyone can see that.

Look at how a veteran actor like Kristoff St. John has only appeared like twice a month for like the past 3 years...

Look at how poorly the gays were treated on Y&R last year and then written out a few months afterwards.

Look how pathetic the women are on Y&R these days and lack a general backbone. Once strong and fierce characters like Jill have been turned into a pile of steaming and desperate crap.

Something is wrong with that picture, and the show needs to be taken to task for it, as does daytime as a whole.

No one wants one particular ethnic or minority group to dominate a show, but when the show acts as if minorities don't exist or barely tries with them, it's just disrespectful and telling. For that matter, why don't Asian, Jews, and Latinos exist on any soap or most soaps currently?

But here's another question, if black viewership makes up a majority of daytme soap fans like Rowell claims, then why didn't Generations take off like a rocket? none of it makes any sense. Does she have any Neilsen statistics to back up her claims, or is she just pulling stuff out of her ass?

But here's another question, if black viewership makes up a majority of daytme soap fans like Rowell claims, then why didn't Generations take off like a rocket? none of it makes any sense. Does she have any Neilsen statistics to back up her claims, or is she just pulling stuff out of her ass?

Then again, no new soap since B&B has taken off...

And that was probably due more to B&B being sandwiched between Y&R and ATWT in most major markets.

Various studies have been done on black viewership on daytime and posted on this same board over the years, I wish I could dig them up again. It's known that African American women in particular make up a big chunk of daytime viewers. I guess you could Google some of that research...

Nothing wrong with pissing someone off no matter what you do, but Y&R no longer tries when it comes to minorities, anyone can see that.

Look at how a veteran actor like Kristoff St. John has only appeared like twice a month for like the past 3 years...

Look at how poorly the gays were treated on Y&R last year and then written out a few months afterwards.

Look how pathetic the women are on Y&R these days and lack a general backbone. Once strong and fierce characters like Jill have been turned into a pile of steaming and desperate crap.

Something is wrong with that picture, and the show needs to be taken to task for it, as does daytime as a whole.

No one wants one particular ethnic or minority group to dominate a show, but when the show acts as if minorities don't exist or barely tries with them, it's just disrespectful and telling. For that matter, why don't Asian, Jews, and Latinos exist on any soap or most soaps currently?

+1.

Unless it's the common thug, the dayplayer doctor, the sandwich maker, the diner owner, these minority groups have no place in daytime. And that is sad.

Glenn Beck called, he wants his act back.

More like Sean Hannity...

Now I just thought.. Alvin, you know i'm not jaded, most of our past disagreements were from me being an eternal optimist, if anyhting that's the opposite of Jaded. now, you wanna call me an oversexed polyanna... i'll accept that label!

Edited July 26, 201015 yr by alphanguy74

But here's another question, if black viewership makes up a majority of daytme soap fans like Rowell claims, then why didn't Generations take off like a rocket? none of it makes any sense. Does she have any Neilsen statistics to back up her claims, or is she just pulling stuff out of her ass?

Then again, no new soap since B&B has taken off...

And that was probably due more to B&B being sandwiched between Y&R and ATWT in most major markets.

Various studies have been done on black viewership on daytime and posted on this same board over the years, I wish I could dig them up again. It's known that African American women in particular make up a big chunk of daytime viewers. I guess you could Google some of that research...

Exactly!

Also, alphanguy, consider THIS: Generations was going up against what was, at the time, either the #1 show among black viewers in daytime or nearly close to it(I think AMC and Y&R were neck-to-neck in that demo back then). You talk to some black soap viewers and they've barely even heard of Generations.

Another thing, asking why Generations didn't take off like a rocket is like asking why more black people didn't watch UPN in its infancy. Just because shows like "Homeboys in Outer Space" and "The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeifer" have black people in them doesn't mean black people will want to watch them, especially if black characters in those shows are being stereotyped and used to manipulate a black viewing audience into watching them. There has to be more to it than "Oh, look, black folks show" to get not only black people, but EVERYONE interested and wanting to tune in.

That's why these pathetic attempts at diversity fail(i.e. Malcolm, Tyra, Roxanne, Rafe, Phillip III, and soon-to-be Sophia): because TPTB want to say, "Oh look, we have diversity. Here, here, and here" and never want to take the time to develop these characters.

Now I just thought.. Alvin, you know i'm not jaded, most of our past disagreements were from me being an eternal optimist, if anyhting that's the opposite of Jaded. now, you wanna call me an oversexed polyanna... i'll accept that label!

You did seem quite jaded about Y&R when they kicked Bierdz's ass off the show again...

You did seem quite jaded about Y&R when they kicked Bierdz's ass off the show again...

Or maybe he was upset that we didn't anoint his feet with extra virgin olive oil.

You did seem quite jaded about Y&R when they kicked Bierdz's ass off the show again...

No, "Dissolutioned" is the word. and THANKS., Bellcurve, for bringing up my "Anoint the feet with oil" comment!! you all remember my best stuff, don't ya!

Exactly!

Also, alphanguy, consider THIS: Generations was going up against what was, at the time, either the #1 show among black viewers in daytime or nearly close to it(I think AMC and Y&R were neck-to-neck in that demo back then). You talk to some black soap viewers and they've barely even heard of Generations.

Another thing, asking why Generations didn't take off like a rocket is like asking why more black people didn't watch UPN in its infancy. Just because shows like "Homeboys in Outer Space" and "The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeifer" have black people in them doesn't mean black people will want to watch them, especially if black characters in those shows are being stereotyped and used to manipulate a black viewing audience into watching them. There has to be more to it than "Oh, look, black folks show" to get not only black people, but EVERYONE interested and wanting to tune in.

That's why these pathetic attempts at diversity fail(i.e. Malcolm, Tyra, Roxanne, Rafe, Phillip III, and soon-to-be Sophia): because TPTB want to say, "Oh look, we have diversity. Here, here, and here" and never want to take the time to develop these characters.

But from what I saw... Generations was GOOD, certainly good enough for Kristoff to be on it. My main point is that soap viewership in general is a huge mystery, nothing seems to make sense on ANY front.

I take it you're the type who won't be satisfied until there are no more white faces on television, right? Only black ones. Then "diversity" has officially been accomplished, yes?

Far from it! Not that I should have to defend myself, but look at the list of my all-time favorite shows:

GUIDING LIGHT

KNOTS LANDING

THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW

THE ROCKFORD FILES

SCTV NETWORK 90

All fantastic shows (IMO), rich with memorable characters and strong writing...but not exactly shining examples of ethnic and racial diversity.

I don't want producers and network/studio execs shoehorning Black faces, or faces of any minority, onto my TV screen just for the sake of having them on there. It should be purposedly and meaningfully; otherwise, it's just tokenism.

if black viewership makes up a majority of daytme soap fans like Rowell claims, then why didn't Generations take off like a rocket?

Because, bad soap opera is bad soap opera, regardless of color.

But from what I saw... Generations was GOOD, certainly good enough for Kristoff to be on it.

That's one opinion. Also, if we go by your logic, then PASSIONS, which (at one time) had Andrea Evans and Robin Strasser in its' cast, was GOOD, too.

Look how pathetic the women are on Y&R these days and lack a general backbone. Once strong and fierce characters like Jill have been turned into a pile of steaming and desperate crap.

Did you really think Jess Walton was going to be the second coming of Brenda Dickson??

With soaps on television withering faster than your favorite plant on a hot, dry, sweltering day, does it really matter how women have changed on soaps? And men for the matter? These days, the women are either simps, immature dolls, backstabbers, drama queens or pretensious divas. The men are milquetoasts, eunuchs, rapists, murderers, mobsters or infidels. Character development is a non-entity in soaps today. So every time I see a post that reads, "She's supposed to be strong and independent..." or "What happened to the days when the women were in control of themselves?", I just roll my eyes and scroll down to the next topic.

Edited July 26, 201015 yr by OldSchoolSoapFan