HBO: Game of Thrones

[Cheap21]

confused by the end. Does this mean that White Walkers are former humans that are transformed into monsters?

Dani has been travelling for years. Im ready for her to finally reach her destination. This is so repetitive.

Marjeroy wastes no time! Didnt see the twist of Olenna implying she had Joffrey killed. If so, why didnt she wait till at least after the marriage was consumated so there wouldnt be any debate on her place as Queen?

[DRW50]

Maybe she was afraid Joffrey would rape or kill Margaery, or that his child would be evil.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

She'd be damaged goods if she had done the deed with Joffrey I think and if shes to be Queen I think tradition is that she has to be a virgin.

[Vee]

It's been four seasons - it's taken you this long to give up on a show you've said you've always hated?

I don't see where the characters are failing. And I don't see what's supposed to be so wrong with Bran's story - I like the new twist in things, there's actually people to interact with and things going on, whereas last year was a lot of table-setting for Bran and friends.

I personally think the Jaime/Cersei situation last week wasn't supposed to be anything more than tortured, rough and only barely consensual sex in a broken relationship - a liaison she really didn't want but reluctantly ceded to. But I did think the scene this week between them deftly straddled the line regardless of our interpretation. She's drinking heavily, she shut him down, called him "Lord Commander" and told him to get out. For whatever version of events the viewer subscribes to, including all the stuff prior to last week, Cersei is clearly affected and their affair is done. I think that's more than enough, especially in a medieval world where nobody's going to sit down for a long discussion about their boundaries.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vee

[Juliajms]

Because then Margaery would have been as powerless as Cersei when Robert died. Actually, even less powerful because she wouldn't be the mother of the next king, but she would be "damaged goods" unable to marry Tommen. Pushed aside while Tommen married someone else and that woman became Queen. Notice how they made such a big show of claiming her virtue was intact before Joff agreed to marry her.

Now she is still a virgin (lol), can marry Tommen, rule through him and have his children, while not suffering Joff's sadism.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I never said I "hated" the entire show. I just hate certain aspects of it....

And for me personally Seasons 1 and 2 were pure gold. Nothing major was changed that I can recall....

[Antoyne]

It just seems you've been complaining for two years, despite knowing that the show is not going to follow the books to a t. But I literally read through the entire thread over a few days and literally your posts were the same over and over again. Book this book that. It appears you're torturing yourself by watching something you don't even seem to care for at all because its not identical to the books.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Antoyne

[YRBB]

Very good episode! It was a surprise to see Dany's story open the episode. It was a lovely moment when she declared she was going to answer injustice with justice and you could just see the effort to remain determined, powerful. She's really trying her best but still is very young and knows very little.

Jaime giving Brienne the sword and armor and then the oathkeeper scene really got to me. I'm confused as to why people claim they never saw anything between them. If you watched season 3 and season 4, how could you not pick up on it? lol I squealed at Podrick going along with Brienne.

Glad to see they stuck with the way Joffrey was murdered in the book. When they didn't mention the missing stone last week, I thought they might have changed it. Petyr marrying Lysa is a great twist. Oh, I cannot wait for that dysfunction to hit our screens again!

Olenna's (presumably) final scene was another diamond and how absolutely perfect was Margaery's visit to Tommen? They had to make her put Tommen out of her spell but without crossing that line and, indeed, great execution. Tommen (what a little actor he's growing up to be) played those smitten moments amazingly. Of course, I don't trust it for a minute. Something is bound to go horribly wrong.

Jon is really showing truly remarkable abilities and I love how he's actually starting to talk more. Kit Harrington can give all the speeches he wants.

Super excited by the stuff with Bran/the mutineers. The lovely Burn Gorman is the absolutely best at these types of character and what a horribly twisted scenario that was over at Craster's Keep. Really loved that Bran, Jojen and Meera were captured. And how exciting with the White Walkers!!! Since season 1 I've had the impression those kids were eaten or something but instead, we get this ritualistic scene and, suddenly, everything changes. Wonderful.

I could have sworn Sam told him he saw Bran?

Are you really asking why she didn't let nasty sociopathic pig Joffrey f.uck her beloved granddaughter?

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Understandable....I say positive things and negative things about the show. But if you guys don't want me to comment cuz I'm too negative then just say so. But I like characters and I like this world and I like discussing the show (even if its mostly flaws and a hot mess at the end of the day).

If you want to pretend like the show is perfect go right ahead but I think I have a right to voice a dissenting opinion if I want to.

[DRW50]

One of the things that strikes me about some of these recent episodes is how much darker the Lannisters are getting (and they've always been dark...). I don't know how much is intentional and how much isn't, but, for instance, that Tommen and Margaery scene. I saw some fans saying she was almost grooming him. And I really don't think she was, I don't think that was the intent of the scene, and I know that age issues (Natalie Dormer is about 31 I believe) play a part compared to the ages they were in the books, but I do wonder, if genders were reversed, if that scene would have made the air at all.

I know some fans think Margaery is a lesbian. I don't think the show is saying that, but it would be an interesting twist.

Edited April 29, 2014 by DRW50

[DRW50]

http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/game-of-thrones-natalie-dormer-interview-margaery-virginity-ser-pounce-mockingjay.html

[Juliajms]

Of course you do.

What can I say, I just don't see it. I had absolutely no idea I was supposed to think Jaime was into her beyond as someone he admires. I'd certainly rather see them together than twincest though.

I think she's grooming him, just not for sex. I don't think we have any reason to think Margaery is a pedophile, although using the phrase "our little secret" was cringe worthy. They could have used that scene with the genders reversed if they wanted to, but it definitely would have come across as more menacing, unless we were already sure the character was a good guy. Maybe that's fair and maybe it isn't, but it's certainly true, imo.

[Vee]

I think it's both.

The fact is, this show is set in a medieval fantasy era. People's ways of life, their priorities, their society is profoundly different than ours. Women are often treated like chattel. The priority of the crown is for Tommen to marry and breed, which Tywin indicated Tommen would need to do very soon; the priority of the Tyrells is for Margaery to wed and bed him. It doesn't matter how old he is or isn't, it doesn't matter that she's much older - she is aiming to charm him, wed him and have his child. That's it.

The fact is that yes, Margaery was seducing him AFAIC. That is her role. That's exactly what Olenna told her to do. She was charming him first - becoming his friend, bonding with him over his cat, getting to know him, but, I felt, very clearly intimating the promise of romance and beneath that, of sex. That was all over her body language, her dialogue; it was all over the way he reacted to her, too. The scene straddled that line very carefully, but very clearly IMO - there was sex between the lines, but it wasn't just about sex. She was seducing him in other ways and implicitly promising the rest, and he was clearly smitten with her. That is Margaery fulfilling her role for House Tyrell and to become Queen. Those are the facts of life in a medieval society - I don't think Margaery has a thing for children, but she is there to befriend and seduce and wed a King. And that King is Tommen, who is a young teenager, and as far as she's concerned that is exactly what she's going to do. And that's that. The show's not set on Earth in 2014 - people on the Internet debating whether Margaery is a threat to children is, IMO, completely ridiculous. She's there for one young boy king.

The fact that this is Westeros and not Earth is, IMO, the same reason Cersei and Jaime didn't bother to talk about their nasty interlude last week. That's not what these people in this world, particlarly those two people with their twisted rapport and decaying relationship, do. Instead she ordered him around, called him by his title and ordered him out of her sight. That is this world. And sure, it can be unseemly.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Vee

[rhinohide]

[Antoyne]

I didn't realize we were supposed to see more than a deep platonic bond between Bree and Jamie. I think there's a mutual respect and yes love between them, but I don't see the two being in love at all.