Fanboi and fangurl alike, unless they suffer from mental illness, cannot deny the sh!tstorm we're in now. We just lived through 15 days of it. I think the only real differences among people here is that some people have a wider tolerance...a longer patience...they differ in when they will finally accept what has happened to their show. Eventually, though, there is no denying what stage we're in.

Here again, there are individual differences. The pessimists (probably realists) say "C'mon, it's over. It's dead. There's no fixing it.". The optimists say, Gatsby-esque, "Maybe someday it will rise again." But the pessimist/realist is probably right. The doomsday clock (for daytime) is ticking, and the business model for these shows no longer holds. There is very little time left to repair these descents into dreck.

And there are just as many, if not more, who would welcome Tammin Sursok back. But neither Sursok nor Leon were as popular as Fonseca, who pretty much everyone liked. Fonseca was the original, the one who played her the longest and the one who made 'Jolleen' so popular. An O-T-T story like Colleen returning would only be worth the effort for Fonseca.

But let's not put this idea into the universe, please! No more doppelgangers, unless we've decided Genoa City is located on some cosmological rift that is a portal to an alternative mirror universe. Really, I keep hoping for some semblance of a return to credibility. No, scratch that. Relatability. Stories that seem like they might happen to actual people, and characters who seem like they might actually grow from their experiences.

I hope Vail is coming back and that they write in her pregnancy. Can you just imagine Victoria or Nicholas running into Heather and remarking how pregnant she is, Adam must be the father. She could say that he's not and refuse to take any DNA testing. Could the Newman's stand the idea of one of their family running around not under their thumb?

I hope Vail is coming back and that they write in her pregnancy. Can you just imagine Victoria or Nicholas running into Heather and remarking how pregnant she is, Adam must be the father. She could say that he's not and refuse to take any DNA testing. Could the Newman's stand the idea of one of their family running around not under their thumb?

They'll probably use the kid to whitewash Adam's crimes and say fatherhood caused an immediate change in his sociopathetic tendencies.

I hope Vail is coming back and that they write in her pregnancy. Can you just imagine Victoria or Nicholas running into Heather and remarking how pregnant she is, Adam must be the father. She could say that he's not and refuse to take any DNA testing. Could the Newman's stand the idea of one of their family running around not under their thumb?

That's another one we don't need to put out there. With Amelia Heinle pregnant, I'm living in terror that the Newmans -- like the Forresters -- are about to have a Deacon baby. Simultaneous pregnancies with dubious paternity....

Fanboi and fangurl alike, unless they suffer from mental illness, cannot deny the sh!tstorm we're in now. We just lived through 15 days of it. I think the only real differences among people here is that some people have a wider tolerance...a longer patience...they differ in when they will finally accept what has happened to their show. Eventually, though, there is no denying what stage we're in.

Yes, how true. I have a VERY wide tolerance and alot of patience. Anyone who has watched a Bill Bell show for 35 years HAS to have it. Much of the bickering is one fan (me) thinks the show is 50 percent crap, while others think it's 95 percent crap. But just because half is bad, doesn't keep me from enjoying the other half. I'm just not persnickety that way.

They'll probably use the kid to whitewash Adam's crimes and say fatherhood caused an immediate change in his sociopathetic tendencies.

Sarcasm aside, I wouldn't hate that. That could be what redeems Adam.

They'll probably use the kid to whitewash Adam's crimes and say fatherhood caused an immediate change in his sociopathetic tendencies.

Or in a bit of poetic justice, some of Adam's misdeeds are discovered and Heather gains full custody of their child. She decides that her child would be better off never knowing his manipulative father and does not allow Adam visitation with his child. Hence, Adam caused Ashley to lose her child, stole Sharon's child and because of his misdeeds loses his own child. Heather leaves town to raise her baby.

Going back to Thom Bierdz. I remember a number of us really questioned, before the story aired, if it was wise to create a story around a man who was no longer an actor and hadn't acted in 20 years. It seems the story came about because Maria Bell is friends with Thom Bierdz and he expressed an interest in returning in some way. Then they give this cancer story to Christel Kahlil. Come on, even many Lily fans understand that she was not ready or talented enough to carry a cancer story.

This really makes me wonder how qualified this crew is if they would write stories for actors that even their viewers realize are not capable or prepared to handle.

Edited October 12, 200916 yr by lmfan

Sarcasm aside, I wouldn't hate that. That could be what redeems Adam.

But we all know being a sociopath is not something curable by something like fatherhood. It's a similar mentality that women in abusive relationships have by thinking that having a child will better their husbands/boyfriends, and it almost never works.

Fatherhood will never excuse burning a woman's fetus or making Sharon think her kid is dead and giving it to Ashley. I don't care how much light a child could bring into his life, his actions are inexcusable. He needs to be held accountable for them.

Fanboi and fangurl alike, unless they suffer from mental illness, cannot deny the sh!tstorm we're in now. We just lived through 15 days of it. I think the only real differences among people here is that some people have a wider tolerance...a longer patience...they differ in when they will finally accept what has happened to their show. Eventually, though, there is no denying what stage we're in.

Here again, there are individual differences. The pessimists (probably realists) say "C'mon, it's over. It's dead. There's no fixing it.". The optimists say, Gatsby-esque, "Maybe someday it will rise again." But the pessimist/realist is probably right. The doomsday clock (for daytime) is ticking, and the business model for these shows no longer holds. There is very little time left to repair these descents into dreck.

I don't think Y&R's problems involve a doomsday clock for daytime. Unless the clock is named Paul Rauch or Hogan Sheffer, or incompetent MAB. Daytime has been dying for years and yet a number of soaps with much lower budgets and much less praised people manage to churn out better quality material than I've seen at Y&R recently.

Even if daytime is in its last days, the stories don't have to revolve around perversion and ugliness, around misogyny, around half-hearted cliches, around uninspiring, vaguely drawn new characters who all dance to the beat of a different plot device every month. Even if the budget is slashed, even if vets can't be used as much, even if they can't afford what they used to take for granted, there's a lot they could do.

I'm a pessimist about THIS team, but I can't justify their crappy writing because daytime is dying. I truly believe that someone else can come along and can improve Y&R. I can't believe that someone like Hogan Sheffer, who has destroyed 3 soaps, is the best this show can find.

Edited October 12, 200916 yr by CarlD2

But we all know being a sociopath is not something curable by something like fatherhood. It's a similar mentality that women in abusive relationships have by thinking that having a child will better their husbands/boyfriends, and it almost never works.

Fatherhood will never excuse burning a woman's fetus or making Sharon think her kid is dead and giving it to Ashley. I don't care how much light a child could bring into his life, his actions are inexcusable. He needs to be held accountable for them.

But he won't because these writers just think Michael Muhney is such a fine actor (which I think is a bit overcomepensation for their Chris Egan dislike/hate) and will have a long run on this show. Every time we turn around they are threatening to get rid of another vet, but Muhney is being assured a long run.

This show could be fixed in one month’s time with good writing. This is why I haven't completely quit, because once I do I'm done, and hearing they have improved won't be enough to get me sucked back in.

Adam can't be redeemed by a child. The reason why I want Heather to have Adam's is that it would tie together two core families and allow great potential long term. Heather could have other relationships which are not always easy for a single mother struggling to have a career. It would also be good if she found being ADA too hard with motherhood and quit that job and returned to Jabot. I'm actually curious to see what kind of chemistry Vail would have with Billy Miller. There is a lot of potential for this character and none of it has to involve MM's Adam. Actually there is a lot of potential for most of the characters on cast but the current writing team is either incapable or unwilling to explore that.

A big no to writing in AH's pregnancy. Deacon is one of those examples of brining on unnecessary new character to avoid writing for their existing characters. He can move back to B&B if the Bell's love him. Victoria should go to Europe to find herself and come back with a refreshing new face.

This show could be fixed in one month’s time with good writing. This is why I haven't completely quit, because once I do I'm done, and hearing they have improved won't be enough to get me sucked back in.

Adam can't be redeemed by a child. The reason why I want Heather to have Adam's is that it would tie together two core families and allow great potential long term. Heather could have other relationships which are not always easy for a single mother struggling to have a career. It would also be good if she found being ADA too hard with motherhood and quit that job and returned to Jabot. I'm actually curious to see what kind of chemistry Vail would have with Billy Miller. There is a lot of potential for this character and none of it has to involve MM's Adam. Actually there is a lot of potential for most of the characters on cast but the current writing team is either incapable or unwilling to explore that.

A big no to writing in AH's pregnancy. Deacon is one of those examples of brining on unnecessary new character to avoid writing for their existing characters. He can move back to B&B if the Bell's love him. Victoria should go to Europe to find herself and come back with a refreshing new face.

All they need to do, if they don't want to fire a pregnant woman.... is to send Amelia over to B&B, and bring the cabbage patch doll back to Y&R. Problem solved.

All they need to do, if they don't want to fire a pregnant woman.... is to send Amelia over to B&B, and bring the cabbage patch doll back to Y&R. Problem solved.

Well, here's the thing. Katie Logan on B&B now has a bona fide story. And Katie's slowly morphing into a slightly nicer/more innocent Katie. And her "partner", Bill Spencer Jr., is slowly morphing into Brad.

Translation: the character now needs some energy and passion, because Katie's turning into a little spitfire.

AH can't handle that--not on either show.

Well, here's the thing. Katie Logan on B&B now has a bona fide story. And Katie's slowly morphing into a slightly nicer/more innocent Katie. And her "partner", Bill Spencer Jr., is slowly morphing into Brad.

Translation: the character now needs some energy and passion, because Katie's turning into a little spitfire.

AH can't handle that--not on either show.

Exactly! And I'm sure there are hundreds of perfectly capable actresses out there who would LOVE to play Victoria. Heather Tom and Amelia Heinle aren't the only options. Bringing Heather back to Y&R at this point would totally screw up a good thing on B&B.

Y&R should have snapped up Gina Tognoni when they had the chance. Oh well, OLTL might be cancelled next year so...