Y&R Episodes Discussion, Week of October 5, 2009

[alphanguy74]

And you know, besides Michael and Lauren not being there.... where was RAFE? Colleen was his hag, wasn't she? At least they showed us them out together more than once, trolling for dick.... so he should have been there.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

They hung out like what? twice?

Rafe hasn't been on since, what August? But he's also a recurring character they had no plans for so they made him "gay" in an attempt to "shock" the audience with that lame Adam screwing Rafe story.

I thought you would be disappointed by how gays are treated on this show, alphanguy74. It's October, where's your "gay storyline" that you said you'd be pissed if it didn't happen by September?

[bellcurve]

[lmfan]

You know I liked Rafe even though I hated his storyline with Adam, but I think there is a bigger problem when long time popular vets like TEB and CLB are getting the shaft rather than a character like Rafe. Sure Rafe and Colleen went out a few times, but Lauren has known the Abbotts for 25 years.

it now looks like Rafe was a ploy to get some free publicity for the show. Now if they were serious about a gay storyline, I would be all for Rafe working for Michael, the show bringing back Scotty and having a relationship between two young professionsals - one out and one in the closet. But since it looks like Michael, Lauren and Rafe are on the do not write for list I don't think a storyline like that has a chance of happening.

[DeeeDee]

[alphanguy74]

Well, Paul and Nikki's romance took place mostly off screen... so I'm assuming that everyone elses stuff took palce off screen, too. (I'm being sarcastic here)

[Paul Raven]

Rafe was on this week,talking to Sharon at the hospital.

I would like him to befriend Heather(will she ever be seen again?)Maybe the two of them could team up to uncover Adam's misdeeds.

I wonder if there will be any follow up on Nikki spilling the beans on Adam being gay.Victor simply accepted it and that was that.Does he still believe his son is gay?

What's with Chance suddenly being some simple 'ol country boy?He spent most of his childhood in LA,where Nina was working on screenplays,so I doubt he grew up in the sticks.

Chance could be an appealing hero,but the writing isn't there,so far.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Vail Bloom was dropped to recurring recently, which means we probably won't see much of her from now on.

[MarkH]

Interesting, and definitely better than what we go (see my avatar). Thanks to OLTL and ATWT, it's not so original at this point though. I think the next "gay" storyline needs to be closet-free...and just be a good old fashioned tortured soap romance. Or maybe -- seriously -- we don't need any gay storylines for the forseeable future. Especially not on this show. For me (and I'm not being original here) I think the next big need is a regular out-and-fabulous designer over at B&B.

I agree with everything you write here. But the writing for "legacy" characters Chance and Heather has been so abysmal...I don't see any of the fixes you mention. I think the whole Adam-is-gay stuff is now fully dropped. It may never be mentioned again.

[BadZoe]

I think we'll be seeing a gay storyline on Y&R around the same time as Neil or the Winters other than Lily get a storyline.

[MarkH]

Honestly, sincerely, I hope the Winters get one first. This show needs to stop dabbling in too many different things...focus on core assets, and throw away the rest.

And, of course, stop threatening the whole d*mn franchise by throwing away the show's most recognizable marquee players.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

The Winters will get a story about the time Maria and her band of hacks are ready to kill Neil off.

I probably shouldn't have said that, as they'll probably read this and decide to go with it even sooner. Wouldn't be the first time posts on SON predicted storylines 4-6 months ahead of them coming on the air with this writing regime.

[DRW50]

I think I said this around the time Nelson and others started hyping the sure to be groundbreaking/look out ATWT/etc. storylines, but I don't have ANY problem with Y&R not including gay characters. Bill Bell made a conscious decision not to include gay characters after the backlash against the Katherine/Joann story. Fine. Just don't mislead fans when you have no intention of doing anything beyond shock value. Then even more insulting is we get to hear Yani Gellman and Thom Bierdz blamed for the stories ending, as if any story on Y&R is not made up as it goes along, as if they had years of story built up for Phillip and then somehow suddenly changed their minds because goodness knows that there's no mediocre acting allowed on Y&R these days.

I don't know what they have to do but I do know that for a show which has spent the last year trying so hard to reinvent itself, they should be sobered by the fact that some viewers, like me, have often only found emotional resonance in stories that involve middle-aged women who aren't exactly runway models. Nikki, Traci, Nina, or, in her infrequent appearances, Doris. The more they try to reshape their canvas to make us accept the hip and the new, the more the only ones left standing are the old warhorses. But then I think they are almost ashamed of letting characters truly show emotion, which is why a lot of the younger characters seem so glib. That was most striking for me at Colleen's funeral. I actually did mourn Colleen, but only because of Traci. Things like seeing Daniel obsess over a stolen painting and then in the next episode we hear, "Oh, look at Daniel's lovely drawing -- it comes from the heart." That makes me mourn for Y&R, not for Colleen.

[MarkH]

I don't feel anything for Doris...but I would for Liz Foster who was, in some ways, her predecessor.

We have established that the network and production house will never greenlight anything with this incredible actresses you mention. Traci is amazing because she is expressive and she still conveys that underlying insecurity and sweetness, even though she is now a woman of a certain age. She is a great counterpoint to most of the canvas. Nina is amazing because she is utterly and completely real in her reactions, and although she is now more grounded, her trademark sass is still right below the surface. You get the sense that she won't hold back...she'll tie you up in a closet if you seem remotely like you're going to get out of line.

MTS is not the world's best actress, but she is perfect -- such perfect -- as the aging boozy floozy who is still locked in the youthful love of her life. As a character, we know how this craving for attention and the love of a paternal man stems from her damaged youth. As an actress, MTS is able to so quickly summon her emotions that we instantly feel what she is feeling...solely because she telegraphs it so well.

I understand if these actresses cannot be front-burner driving stories (because CBS/Sony won't allow it), but they can be front-burner supporting. That requires, however, their progeny to be well cast and written for. Unfortunately, Traci's daughter is dead, and both Nikki and Nina's offspring are -- at present -- lacking. That means we can't even rely on there being good story for these women to support.

It is ironic that, for some time, the real-seeming girls and the heavy set girls have been among the most popular in daytime. Clearly, that links to their "relatability", but for some reason these shows have decided to eschew relatability. Take Mac. She could be the sensible, plucky heroine that the audience identifies with. Instead, she seems relegate to back burner supporting, while non-actresses like Cristel Khalil are given front burner.

I like Adrienne Frantz a lot -- and madcap Amber -- but only when she is balanced by other young heroines who seem more real.

[MarkH]

In the Cristel Khalil thread in DTS:Spoiler, I talked about TGVN making amends.

Obviously, current contractual stuff may mean that we never see that...

But, if we did, how could it happen? How could the Victor character be returned to something like redemption? (And please don't tell me this miserable writing regime is not interested...pretend with me for a minute ).

I had always hoped the Rec Center would be better than it was. When Devon was first introduced, I had hoped that HE would be the next Victor Newman. Rough, a bit thuggish, definitely "feral" in the sense that he had to make his own way through life due to abandonment. Just like Victor. It first looked like (when Victor slept at the Rec Center to give Devon a home) they might go in that direction. But then it became clear that Devon was intended for Rowell's Foster storyline, and that was a fine direction too.

But I had hoped that the Rec Center would be used as a way to introduce kids whose start in life was like Victor's...and that he would use his resources and wisdom to bring them along. This was never done. In the end, all Victor really did was contribute finances to build the place, served his sentence, and then never thought of the place again. Which, honestly, is probably authentically what a billionaire like TGVN would do.

The Victor of today has so much to make amends for in just the last 18 months, though:

• - his abominable behavior surrounding Sabrina...he utterly disregarded Victoria's pre-existing friendship with her
• - his murder -- let's be honest -- of Walter Palin. Some of us totally connect with vigilante justice...but it is seldom right
• - his failure to accept the blame for bringing David Chow to town
• - his abominable treatment of Nikki in the post-Sabrina era, down to leaving her sobbing on the beach and wishing her dead
• - his exile of his entire family in the post-Sabrina era. "I vant to be alone!"
• - though Adam did a lot of his own bad stuff in the Sabrina and post-Sabrina era, Victor was a cold fish to him even then. Victor took Adam into his business, but then promptly left him to fend for himself against the graceless entitled Newman heirs...he did nothing to protect, defend, support Adam
• - Adam did bad things while Victor was "dead", but Victor did nothing to try to understand any of that. There was no conversation. There was a summary dismissal, and then a ruination of Adam's repututation, so he could never work again
• - Victor's initial re-connection with Ashley was a selfish one...he used her for his healing (something Ashley now seems to recognize was nothing but her reaching out to Victor out of 'obligation')...but it was initially selfish and one-sided. And then, once she got blood flowing to his privates again, he didn't let her go
• - The vengeful hiring of Mary Jane/Patty, for malfeasance that even now we don't fully know
• - His exorcism of the capable Brad Carlton from his Board of Directors, solely for personal reasons
• - His leaving Brad essentially unemployable in the wake of the BoD dismissal
• - His insensitive appearance at Brad's funeral, where he had no business being
• - His utter lack of welcome and mentorship for Colleen on the Board, solely because he didn't like her dad, he didn't like her uncle, and he wanted Ashley on the board
• - His machinations during the last confusing "ownership of Jabot" phase (I still don't understand what all happened there), where he effectively got Jack and Ashley trounced from the company in favor of Billy. In the process, he also horribly used/manipulated Jill and Billy
• - His leaving of Gloria/Jeff and Jill destitute. Regardless of what you think about these folks, Victor had no right to leave them penniless. That was pure spite.
• - His setting up of Colleen, via GloJeff, to be "Colleen Gone Wild"...leading to her excision from the board...and her inability to get subsequent employement (e.g., GCU decided not to hire her)
• - His dismissal of JT, solely because JT refused to be his unquestioning lackey
• - His rude tone--each and every time--with Michael Baldwin, even though Michael has emerged as his most tireless supporter
• - His indirect responsibility for his granddaughter's brain damage
• - His indirect responsibility for Colleen's death
• - His abominable treatment of Estella and Rafe...Estella is still cast out
• - His abominable treatment of Adam in his home during the house arrest--for most of the time he was cold and punishing...making to attempts to thaw relations or get to know his son better. Yes, in behind, Adam was scheming...but Victor never even TRIED
• - His ugly treatment of Patty when she was before him...when it was clear that she was unhinged. Rather than try to get her help, he simply tried to ship her out of town. This only escalated her decompensation further, and led directly to her full psychotic break
• - His offer of a ransom for Patty, solely to try to avoid prosecution

I'm thinking I'm missing some of his resolute evil from the last 18 months. Suffice it to say he has been colder, more nasty, more selfish, more single-minded in vengeance than he has been since the early 1980s...and that has essentially erased any character growth from the last 30 years. It doesn't help that the actor has become more and more habitual, relying more and more on stock phrases and emotional expressions, rather than acting what is really in the script.

So, when this is all put together, can Victor be saved? What would it take? How could the character be repaired without becoming sappy?