•They can't be too negative or villain-y...

•They can't be too put-upon or tragic...

•They can't date other black characters because that's keeping them "isolated," but if they date interracially then some see it as them being put up for validation from a great white hope (and Lord forbid if they lose lose in an interracial love triangle) ...

•If they neck roll, aggressively get in peoples faces or drop a slang phrase, that's too stereotypical...but then if they're too wholesome, polite or upper crust, then they're "not black enough."

That's too many contradictions, and it's probably easier for soap writers to stick with their tried and true than it is to introduce 'minority' characters and have them scrutinized in ways that no soap character ought to be.

While its true that you can't please everyone I don't think complaints about minority characters being both too villianess and too bland or too much of a victim are necessarily contradictory. In the past and arguably the present there was a greater tendency to write minority characters as either evil villians or saints with little in between or to give those characters less dimensions.

Edited October 8, 200916 yr by RomeAt50

While its true that you can't please everyone I don't think complaints about minority characters being both too villianess and too bland or too much of a victim are necessarily contradictory. In the past and arguably the present there was a greater tendency to write minority characters as either evil villians or saints with little in between or to give those characters less dimensions.

And "black villains" shouldn't just be street pimps, petty criminals, and jive-talking crime lords. While the character wasn't perfect, I liked what Dirty Sexy Money did with Blair Underwood. He was a Victor Newman type, powerful and ruthless, and yet his blackness wasn't swept under the rug either. He even knocked up the show's (white) lead female character.

One of the best African American "villains" was Marshall Travers on ATWT. The character was wonderful and played by the beautiful Lamman Rucker. Marshall was a high power attorney working James Steinbeck and had a hot affair with Jessica. Instead of getting him involved with Bonnie and have him cause more problems for Barbara and Paul, Hogan Sheffer had Marshall rape Jessica which doomed the character. An African American man cannot be a rapist on a soap in a society that fears the sexuality of African Americans. It goes to show that some headwriters and EPs have no clue.

It doesn't surprise me Van has not returned, because it's like, what do you write for Miss America?

Would writing her as Miss America be that different than their writing for Tea, or Marty, or Gigi?

I don't disagree with your observations about Evangeline. I just don't believe that she was written out because of black fans who are never happy and who demanded too much. If it were some type of fear of the black viewer, then OLTL would have no black characters whatsoever, aside from small bit parts.

I love me some Evangeline and I know that she isn't everyone's flavor but that is the joy in having many different types of characters on the show for the audience's delight. For me she was as close to a real personality that a soap character has been in a while,a strong educated career woman who has some sense of self-respect and we was learning about her insecurities little by little. I wasn't looking for another Dru when I was enjoying her character, but I agree the writers during and after the whole John competition started making her a softer character. Was it to make her more acceptable to the white audience or not I can't say, but as a female of color she was a character that I could relate to and enjoyed her on screen. To me this was OLTL last attempt at honest diversity for black characters. What we have now seems like a response to the many complaints of no diversity that the show stuck a bunch of black people on screen to placate the cries without any real thought or plan for the characters. Layla is still in the same place as she always has been best friend cheerleader with a somewhat romance on the side, the Evans their family dynamic changes with the wind and interact with no one but themselves and Matthew who interacts with no one but the Evans and his parents. Rachel for someone who had such a rich history to be such a dud now is insane.

Would writing her as Miss America be that different than their writing for Tea, or Marty, or Gigi?

Yes - those characters may be shined up at times, but they all have some deeper layers and other facets. Tea especially is an absolute terror in the courtroom and has been dysfunctional and borderline unstable for years. She got results defending Todd earlier this year, and fans loved her obsessive drive and her lack of fear to get ugly. She was a love-to-hate antagonist. Evangeline was never allowed to be like that. Marty had her own rebel years and deeper layers, and even Gigi has a bit of a bite to her at times.

I don't disagree with your observations about Evangeline. I just don't believe that she was written out because of black fans who are never happy and who demanded too much.

That's not what I was saying and I agree it wasn't about that.

Yes - those characters may be shined up at times, but they all have some deeper layers and other facets. Tea especially is an absolute terror in the courtroom and has been dysfunctional and borderline unstable for years. She got results defending Todd earlier this year, and fans loved her obsessive drive and her lack of fear to get ugly. She was a love-to-hate antagonist. Evangeline was never allowed to be like that. Marty had her own rebel years and deeper layers, and even Gigi has a bit of a bite to her at times.

The simple solution would be to allow Evaneline deeper layers to come through, the problem is not with the character but with the writing for the character.

My aunt tells me that Jason became a more interesting character to her after his accident which allowed his character different oppurtunities.

Edited October 9, 200916 yr by chyti

The simple solution would be to allow Evaneline deeper layers to come through, the problem is not with the character but with the writing for the character.

You're right, and I would have liked to see that happen. But while I don't think it's a race thing, I do think certain couple-centric elements of her fanbase would have a serious problem with seeing Evangeline taking that kind of moral fall. If you ask them, her treatment of Cristian, John and Todd was beyond reproach and totally above-board. She could do no wrong and all the men wanted her.

You're right, and I would have liked to see that happen. But while I don't think it's a race thing, I do think certain couple-centric elements of her fanbase would have a serious problem with seeing Evangeline taking that kind of moral fall. If you ask them, her treatment of Cristian, John and Todd was beyond reproach and totally above-board. She could do no wrong and all the men wanted her.

Maybe, maybe not but the thing is writing has to come from a writer and not a fan's perspective. There are just too many fans with different views to please everyone, a good storyline and a well written character has a greater chance of being appreciated by the masses. Beside she doesn't have to become a criminal, some of the most beloved characters for me are honest ones who display their faults. For me the story is in the struggle whether internal or by some outside force.

You're right, and I would have liked to see that happen. But while I don't think it's a race thing, I do think certain couple-centric elements of her fanbase would have a serious problem with seeing Evangeline taking that kind of moral fall. If you ask them, her treatment of Cristian, John and Todd was beyond reproach and totally above-board. She could do no wrong and all the men wanted her.

I love Evangeline when she first came on. No nonsense lawyer. I like her scenes with RHTodd in the elevator. I didn't see how she hook up with RJ & ended up with John. But having her go up agianst Natalie for John effection might have done something to the character. But I also didn't mind that Because I love their chemistry. But the writers made it seem like they wanted Natalie to win because they was trying to make her the next big thing. Anyway Evangeline will always have more layers to her then Lily from Y&R. I just don't get the comparison.

I loved Evangaline. She was the kind of African American character that I wanted to see. I loved her chem with Cristian. They sizzled.

Just because I'm Native American/American Indian(either term works for me) myself but nobody and I mean nobody ever attempts to portray us. Or when they do it's done very horrendously. I doubt this will ever change. I can't think of any NA/AI characters on daytime ever.

Just for the sake of soap trivia...Seneca Beaulac on Ryan's Hope. Obviously, this was a long time ago and I don't think they made much of it beyond his first months/year on the show. Seneca was a mixture of French-Canadian and Seneca Indian. He had various artifacts around his apartment and would talk about his background. I wished they had delved into it further or continued to make it a core part of his character.

James Franco is being teamed with

Las Vegas alum Marsha Thomason has been cast as a "mystery woman"

involved in James Franco's story on General Hospital,

according to Soap Opera Digest.

Thomason recently appeared in the pilot episode of USA's White Collar.

http://img.tvfanonline.com/data/523/SGG-087213.jpg

So? Ummm can't wait to see how she'll be written a real storyline

or this passing through like they usually do...

Speaking of ATWT, it's bad, but when I heard Bonnie was leaving ATWT, I was surprised they were even giving her an exit story (instead of a "okay bye" or disappearing) and Jessica would appear, my expectations for ATWT have become so low on the racial diversity front. I chalked even the presence of an exit story to the addition of Kreizman/Gold to staff.

Unfortunately, Bonnie really didn't get an exit. She broke up with Dusty and walked out of Metro without a word. Are we to assume she is still sitting in the Caribbean somewhere?? With that being said, supposedly Chautnee Schuler stated that Bonnie isn't gone, just laying low for a while. Too bad I have zero expectations of her returning.