51 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Personally, I loathed Roxie. I hated all things Reva: Reva herself, Roxie, Cassie, Rusty, Hawk, Minnie Pearl. To me, the Shaynes were to TGL what the Dingles are to EMMERDALE. Of course, to each his own.

 

37 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

By the time I really started watching it was just Reva, Sarah and Hawk so I didn't see the full group until Youtube. The Dingles have had a chokehold on Emmerdale for 20 years though -  I think the Coopers may be closer to them. 

 

When I started watching GL, there were no Shaynes on the canvas (as I started as a young child about 92-93). 

 

I agree with @DRW50 that the Coopers were more like the Dingles than the Shaynes. I felt the Coopers (mainly Harley, Buzz, and later Marina) ate up the show from the '90s to the bitter end. Out of the bunch, I didn't mind Lucy (at times), Frank, or Coop. The other 3 (Harley/Buzz/Marina) annoyed me to no end. Only time I liked Harley was when she was with Phillip. Once she got paired with Gus, I grew tired of her ass. 

 

I didn't mind Reva. Yes, she was overkill but I just felt she was a character that needed direction in the later years. I've said this before, but Reva needed a damn career! That was her problem. I grew tired of her constantly having stories of her and Josh going backwards and forwards. It grew tedious and restricting to both characters. Reva hardly ever interacted with anyone outside her clan, but she was so beloved by everyone, which boggled me. The last decade sucked for Reva as she was isolated if anything. Reva was her most appealing when she was interacting with people she normally didn't interact with.

 

I never minded Cassie and I always enjoyed her during Laura Wright's stint minus the time she was sniffing around Danny. One thing Cassie did better than Reva in the show's last few years was not be isolated. She was well threaded throughout the canvas. 

 

Looking back at older episodes, I can see why older fans would loathe Reva as she totally sucked airtime from the Bauers and Reardons, who were beloved. The Shaynes don't bother me though for some odd reason. 

49 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

By the time I really started watching it was just Reva, Sarah and Hawk so I didn't see the full group until Youtube. The Dingles have had a chokehold on Emmerdale for 20 years though -  I think the Coopers may be closer to them. 

 

I must say, I did not like the Coopers (except possibly for Frank), but I absolutely hated the Shaynes. I loathed them even more than the Dingles.

 

In fact, Reva's grating clan goes down in my personal hall of shame (or hall of...Shayme, LOL) as the soap opera family that I despised most in all my decades of watching daytime TV. (The Santos and Winslow families also rank on that list, by the way.)

Just now, vetsoapfan said:

 

I must say, I did not like the Coopers (except possibly for Frank), but I absolutely hated the Shaynes. I loathed them even more than the Dingles.

 

In fact, Reva's grating clan goes down in my personal hall of shame (or hall of...Shayme, LOL) as the soap opera family that I despised most in all my decades of watching daytime TV. (The Santos and Winslow families also rank on that list, by the way.)

 

 

WHY?!!!!!

 

Y'all gonna stop messing with my Santos & Winslow clans. I loved Richard, Danny, Tony, Carmen, and Edmund (at times). 

 

Those were the days...

 

Minus the time they shot up the Bauer kitchen as I felt (like many) that was sacrilegious. 

8 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

Looking back at older episodes, I can see why older fans would loathe Reva as she totally sucked airtime from the Bauers and Reardons, who were beloved. The Shaynes don't bother me though for some odd reason. 

 

Reva was slightly less loathsome when written by Pamela K. Long, because at least Long understood the character and tried to give her some depth. No other writer ever managed to write effectively for Reva, however, and the jaw-droppingly idiotic stories they foisted upon her were just painful to endure. Reva the Ghost! Reva the Amish Amnesiac! Reva the San Cristocrapian Queen! Reva the Clone! Reva the Blind! Reva the Illegal-Immigrant Savior! Reva the Time Traveler! Reva the Portly Object of Every Man's Desire!

 

Egads!!!!!

4 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

 

WHY?!!!!!

 

Y'all gonna stop messing with my Santos & Winslow clans. I loved Richard, Danny, Tony, Carmen, and Edmund (at times). 

 

Those were the days...

 

Minus the time they shot up the Bauer kitchen as I felt (like many) that was sacrilegious. 

 

I hated, hated, hated, hated, hated all the characters you mentioned. Even the great Claire Labine could not make me stop retching my way through seeing them on-screen.

 

If I had been writing the show, all traces of the Shaymes, Santoses, and Winslows would have been purged from Springfield in MY VERY FIRST EPISODE!

 

I used to dream about how I would kill them all off in deliciously satisfying ways, LOL!

8 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Reva was slightly less loathsome when written by Pamela K. Long, because at least Long understood the character and tried to give her some depth. No other writer ever managed to write effectively for Reva, however, and the jaw-droppingly idiotic stories they foisted upon her were just painful to endure. Reva the Ghost! Reva the Amish Amnesiac! Reva the San Cristocrapian Queen! Reva the Clone! Reva the Blind! Reva the Illegal-Immigrant Savior! Reva the Time Traveler! Reva the Portly Object of Every Man's Desire!

 

Egads!!!!!

 

I hated, hated, hated, hated, hated all the characters you mentioned. Even the great Claire Labine could not make me stop retching my way through seeing them on-screen.

 

If I had been writing the show, all traces of the Shaymes, Santoses, and Winslows would have been purged from Springfield in MY VERY FIRST EPISODE!

 

I used to dream about how I would kill them all off in deliciously satisfying ways, LOL!

 

 at you naming all of Reva's arcs upon her return. I do agree that they were all stupid and over the top. I know KZ has to roll her eyes playing all of this. 

 

No! You can't kill them!!! I don't think they needed to be killed. Many of them just needed to be revised or written off IMO. 

 

By the end of the show, the Winslows were gone. I do hate that they undid Edmund's death and had this stupid arc where Shayne had a baby with Edmund's deceased long lost daughter, Lara. 

 

I always wanted Danny (and Michelle) back with Danny now being some FBI officiant. The Santos mob clan didn't bother like the Corinthos' do on GH. I guess b/c Danny and Tony were more romantic leads than actual mobsters, I took to them. 

 

Again, I didn't mind the Shaynes. They just needed to not drive all the stories on the canvas.

 

I used to dream of re-centering the show around the Bauers and Reardons if anything. I wanted Quint & Nola back with J, Stacey, and about 2-3 younger kids for the young adults/teen part of the show. I wanted them back at Thornway Road. Nola would be an author or journalist (as she was nosy as f-ck). Quint would be an archeologist/professor, much like his idol, Professor Renfield at Springfield U. Quint and Nola would be the comedic, stable couple of the show, who'd constantly worry about their flock of kids, who were all screw ups. 

 

*sighs*

 

A boy can dream...

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

She was probably holding out for A Martinez too...

 

I finally finished the '85 Thanksgiving episode. Just as it seemed to be ending on an optimistic note (as soap Thanksgivings should), Kyle flounced out the door.

 

Sigh...what an odd way to end a holiday show. 

 

From what I saw of TGL in 1985 (and I didn't see much), it seemed like an odd YEAR.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Reva was slightly less loathsome when written by Pamela K. Long, because at least Long understood the character and tried to give her some depth. No other writer ever managed to write effectively for Reva, however, and the jaw-droppingly idiotic stories they foisted upon her were just painful to endure. Reva the Ghost! Reva the Amish Amnesiac! Reva the San Cristocrapian Queen! Reva the Clone! Reva the Blind! Reva the Illegal-Immigrant Savior! Reva the Time Traveler! Reva the Portly Object of Every Man's Desire!

 

Exactly. It seemed no one but Long could write effectively for that character. Yes, Reva had popular stories post-Long (the whole Annie saga, of course), but no one seemed to serve that character justice throughout most of her tenure. Kudos to Zimmer for working with that material.

11 minutes ago, zanereed said:

 

From what I saw of TGL in 1985 (and I didn't see much), it seemed like an odd YEAR.

 

I'd tend to agree - the Infinity, Charlotte Wheaton, etc. stories I've seen parts of, and things I haven't seen and have no desire to see, like Kyle having sex in Alaska with amnesiac prostitute Roxy (????). 

 

I remember watching the Kurt/Mindy wedding and it's just gorgeously, stunningly filmed (the shot of Reva walking into the gardens is superior to anything I've seen of things like the Luke/Laura wedding, which I mostly remember for Lesley's brothel madam dress), but I just end up wondering why they blew that much money on material that just wasn't worth it and in many ways likely actively chased away viewers. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

But thinking of Sarah's funeral, I've always felt the same way about the Reardons not being shown during Maureen's funeral. It was so odd for them to mention that the Reardons decided to go to the boarding house instead of showing them. I would've loved to have seen some powerhouse scenes with them being divided on the issue of Ed causing Maureen's death. While GL was firing on all cylinders with that story, it could've been so much better to have Jim, Tony, Chelsea, and Nola chewing Ed out while Bea tries to calm matters. 

 

Now that would have been good drama to play out. Unfortunately, I doubt JFP had any thoughts regarding that when she decided to kill off Maureen. It also would have given Peter Simon some good material to work with moving forward, even if you could only have a couple of Reardons on at the time (Bea and Nola would be been great, but was Lisa Brown even available in 1993?).

Edited December 14, 20168 yr by zanereed

5 minutes ago, zanereed said:

 

Now that would have been good drama to play out. Unfortunately, I doubt JFP had any thoughts regarding that when she decided to kill off Maureen. It also would have given Peter Simon some good material to work with moving forward, even if you could only have a couple of Reardons on at the time (Bea and Nola would be been great, but was Lisa Brown even available in 1993?).

 

She was on ATWT so I imagine she could have crossed over. 

16 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

As I recollect. one fan favorite did return around the 50th anniversary week: Rick Bauer. Rick had left Springfield earlier that year and then returned in late June/early July. Around that time, the soap press made a big deal about GL beefing up the Bauer family by reintroducing Rick, introducing a SORAsed Alan-Michael, and adding Johnny's sister Lacey. Plus, Johnny and Lacey's brother Todd was supposedly going to show up.

 

 

Ah, yes - correct. While it was great to have Rick back, that was just *one* legacy Bauer who came back, even if it was only a short-term visit. I don't recall a mention during the 50th of Mike Bauer, no mention of Meta or any other legacy Bauers, and having a SORAsed Alan-Michael arrive essentially squashed any chance of Hope Bauer ever returning. While I did like Alan-Michael, I still think he was SORAsed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too quickly. If anything, I would have loved to have seen Hope Bauer be the one who parachuted into Springfield - a changed Hope (probably recast if Elvera wouldn't do it) who - since leaving Springfield 4 years ago - has become a stronger person than the one who was duped by Alan on so many occasions. The old Hope would have never taken a risk of parachuting, but this Hope would. It would be symbolic of an independent Hope would has taken control of her life. She would be more of a risk-taker both personally and professionally.

 

Alan, of course, would be horrified at this change in Hope, and would immediately try to get custody of a non-SORAsed Alan-Michael.

3 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

No! You can't kill them!!! I don't think they needed to be killed. Many of them just needed to be revised or written off IMO. 

 

 

 

If I had be generous, I would have allowed the characters to live, but ONLY if they had immediately been from Springfield and spun off into their own cartoon-adventure series which I would never have had to watch. The Misguided Blight. Never say I don't do anything for you.

3 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

From what I saw of TGL in 1985 (and I didn't see much), it seemed like an odd YEAR.

 

Exactly. It seemed no one but Long could write effectively for that character. Yes, Reva had popular stories post-Long (the whole Annie saga, of course), but no one seemed to serve that character justice throughout most of her tenure. Kudos to Zimmer for working with that material.

 

I agree that the Annie storyline was the most successful material involving Reva after her return from the dead, but to be honest, I think it worked largely thanks to Cynthia Watros.

Edited December 14, 20168 yr by vetsoapfan

2 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

Ah, yes - correct. While it was great to have Rick back, that was just *one* legacy Bauer who came back, even if it was only a short-term visit. I don't recall a mention during the 50th of Mike Bauer, no mention of Meta or any other legacy Bauers, and having a SORAsed Alan-Michael arrive essentially squashed any chance of Hope Bauer ever returning. While I did like Alan-Michael, I still think he was SORAsed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too quickly. If anything, I would have loved to have seen Hope Bauer be the one who parachuted into Springfield - a changed Hope (probably recast if Elvera wouldn't do it) who - since leaving Springfield 4 years ago - has become a stronger person than the one who was duped by Alan on so many occasions. The old Hope would have never taken a risk of parachuting, but this Hope would. It would be symbolic of an independent Hope would has taken control of her life. She would be more of a risk-taker both personally and professionally.

 

Alan, of course, would be horrified at this change in Hope, and would immediately try to get custody of a non-SORAsed Alan-Michael.

 

If TPTB at the time had wanted to repair the damage to the show, they should have at least tried to lure Mart Hulswit back as Ed Bauer. The idea of foisting a "younger, sexier" Ed onto the audience was a complete disaster; Hulswit was a comforting, familiar face and a good, solid actor. The audience would have been at least partially mollified to have him back as the patriarch of the Bauer family.

 

If Elvera Roussel did not agree to return, I would have accepted Robin Mattson as a newly-matured, stronger Hope Bauer. Mattson had grown a lot as an actress since her portrayal of Hope years before, and the show could have capitalized on her popularity from the ABC soaps. Alan-Michael should NOT have been SORASed so quickly.

 

In an ideal world, I'd try to get Don Stewart back on contract as well, even though rumors were that he was difficult to work with. And I would have put out feelers to Ellen Demming, to see if she was still interested in acting and would like to reappear, even on a nominal, recurring basis, as Aunt Meta.

 

Just having Hulswit, Roussel or Mattson, and perhaps Demming on-screen would have helped the show feel like TGL again. Allowing the Bauers to remain gutted year after year was so disrespectful to the show's history and its loyal fans. It's like if the producers of The Waltons wanted us to watch the show with only a replacement actor in the role of Jim-Bob to carry on the family's legacy.

 

It amazes me how TPTB at all the soaps have been allowed to make such inept, stupid and REPEATED mistakes for so long.

2 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

Now that would have been good drama to play out. Unfortunately, I doubt JFP had any thoughts regarding that when she decided to kill off Maureen. It also would have given Peter Simon some good material to work with moving forward, even if you could only have a couple of Reardons on at the time (Bea and Nola would be been great, but was Lisa Brown even available in 1993?).

 

 

I've just always felt that Ed got off easy with Maureen's death. In actuality, Maureen's (like any real family) would've wreaked havoc on Ed & Lillian. Plus, it would've been interesting to see Vanessa involved too as she has ties to Ed and the Reardons.

 

While Vanessa was Maureen's best friend, would she side with Ed out of pity or turn on him? I'd personally have her be pissed with Ed but side with him just cause, thus reigning her beef with Nola. Lisa Brown & Maeve Kinkead in fiery, tense scenes would've been EVERYTHING. It would've been interesting to see how Quint would've factored in the situation too. Maureen's death should've trickled down the canvas and affected the characters for years. 

 

Of course, JFP's lame ass skipped that beat. 

 

53 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

If I must be generous, I will allow the characters to live, but ONLL if they are immediately purged from Springfield and spun off into their own cartoon-adventure series which I would never have to watch. The Misguided Blight. Never say I don't do anything for you.

 

 at Misguided Blight!

 

Only characters I'd want were Danny, Cassie, and Reva. No other Shaynes. All the other Santoses are dead. 

7 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

If TPTB at the time had wanted to repair the damage to the show, they should have at least tried to lure Mart Hulswit back as Ed Bauer. The idea of foisting a "younger, sexier" Ed onto the audience was a complete disaster; Hulswit was a comforting, familiar face and a good, solid actor. The audience would have been at least partially mollified to have him back as the patriarch of the Bauer family.

 

If Elvera Roussel did not agree to return, I would have accepted Robin Mattson as a newly-matured, stronger Hope Bauer. Mattson had grown a lot as an actress since her portrayal of Hope years before, and the show could have capitalized on her popularity from the ABC soaps. Alan-Michael should NOT have been SORASed so quickly.

 

In an ideal world, I'd try to get Don Stewart back on contract as well, even though rumors were that he was difficult to work with. And I would have put out feelers to Ellen Demming, to see if she was still interested in acting and would like to reappear, even on a nominal, recurring basis, as Aunt Meta.

 

Just having Hulswit, Roussel or Mattson, and perhaps Demming on-screen would have helped the show feel like TGL again. Allowing the Bauers to remain gutted year after year was so disrespectful to the show's history and its loyal fans. It's like if the producers of The Waltons wanted us to watch the show with only a replacement actor in the role of Jim-Bob to carry on the family's legacy.

 

It amazes me how TPTB at all the soaps have been allowed to make such inept, stupid and REPEATED mistakes for so long.

 

Yes, Hulswit should have been the one to return as Ed in 1986 versus Simon. It would have helped immensely. Also, just think of how much more of an impact the returns of Holly and Roger would have been with Hulswit as Ed. I think that Ed Bauer would have had a lot more story and interaction with Roger if that were the case. I remember seeing a soap mag in 1990 with a photo of Zaslow and Hulswit together, and Hulswit looked exactly the same as in 1981, so he would have been perfectly fine back in the role. I wonder if they did reach out to him in 1986 but he turned it down? I would have loved Stewart back as Mike, but Hulswit would have sufficed just fine. As you said, Stewart apparently was problematic to work with, so there might have been reluctance to ask him back.

 

I read somewhere (probably earlier in this thread?) that Kobe and Long were fine doing a complete overhaul of TGL cast (letting long time vets go in favor of new characters) as long as they had Charita there as the heart of the show. I know that Kobe and Long both encouraged the Bert leg amputation storyline for Charita to do. Apparently they were shocked when she passed away, as they never realized how sick she really was. Regardless, TPTB definitely should have brought in Meta (preferably with Demming in the role). Meta could have decided to come back and stay in Springfield after Bert's passing, even if just a recurring presence for the rest of the Bauer family.

18 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

I've just always felt that Ed got off easy with Maureen's death. In actuality, Maureen's (like any real family) would've wreaked havoc on Ed & Lillian. Plus, it would've been interesting to see Vanessa involved too as she has ties to Ed and the Reardons.

 

While Vanessa was Maureen's best friend, would she side with Ed out of pity or turn on him? I'd personally have her be pissed with Ed but side with him just cause, thus reigning her beef with Nola. Lisa Brown & Maeve Kinkead in fiery, tense scenes would've been EVERYTHING. It would've been interesting to see how Quint would've factored in the situation too. Maureen's death should've trickled down the canvas and affected the characters for years. 

 

Of course, JFP's lame ass skipped that beat. 

 

He really did. I don't remember any real consequences for Ed and Lillian.

 

I also thought that Ed would get some heat from Roger. Once again, Ed Bauer took something away from Roger Thorpe (whether directly or indirectly), this time a good friend. I figured Maureen's death would have/could have kick-started an Ed/Roger feud again.