13 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Vera I liked but she was problematic (the "Mammy Maid" thing.)

My problem exactly with Vera. TBF, Long tended to write ALL servants as insanely loyal to the detriment of their own lives. Jane (played by the wonderful Mary Pat Gleason) was Vera's white counterpart. I think she started out as a physical therapist but then stayed on as Amanda’s maid. She even volunteered to sew a costume at the last minute so Amanda could attend Quint and Nola's Civil War themed engagement party. Practically the Fairy Godmother. 😁

The most extreme example, though, was Elise, Alan's rent-a-whore, who cosplayed in her slutty maid costume but was also his devoted servant. 

I haven't been able to find the episode, but I SWEAR there was a scene after Alan Michael first came back to town where he was waiting for Alan to come home. He found Elise sitting in a chair like the lady of the house reading some magazine like Vogue.

He says to her, "You really like your job, don't you?"

The way he said the line was so good. Carl was definitely my favorite Alan Michael. 😂

 

57 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

My problem exactly with Vera. TBF, Long tended to write ALL servants as insanely loyal to the detriment of their own lives. Jane (played by the wonderful Mary Pat Gleason) was Vera's white counterpart. I think she started out as a physical therapist but then stayed on as Amanda’s maid. She even volunteered to sew a costume at the last minute so Amanda could attend Quint and Nola's Civil War themed engagement party. Practically the Fairy Godmother. 😁

The most extreme example, though, was Elise, Alan's rent-a-whore, who cosplayed in her slutty maid costume but was also his devoted servant. 

I haven't been able to find the episode, but I SWEAR there was a scene after Alan Michael first came back to town where he was waiting for Alan to come home. He found Elise sitting in a chair like the lady of the house reading some magazine like Vogue.

He says to her, "You really like your job, don't you?"

The way he said the line was so good. Carl was definitely my favorite Alan Michael. 😂

 

Jane..that was her name! I loved Jane.

I know this was written about before but I can't believe the tone deafness on the network, writers, producers AND the viewers that YR had a black maid named Mamie!!!!!

I may be dreaming this, but I think Long wrote a scene where Vera condemned Roger and Alex's tower plans as displacing people she knew (i.e. POC) if so good, and a good op for drama for Vera to quit after she tells Peanut out and that wakes Alex up. 

Though I will always love Vera for that scene where she is serving coffee or something and leaning over shoves her butt in Blake's face! God the show could be so good back then!

I wish they brought Evans back to GL when Hearst left. I could see him channeling his inner Bauer especially since Simon left at that time and they could have recast Mike.

I wish that they had Loyd, and whatever the butlers name was, who were at cross purposes at times carrying out their bosses schemes against each other...would have fallen in love and ran off together. Alan would huff and puff and JoanAlex would say, "Really Alan, did you think they spent ALL their time spying for us? Let's throw those boys a nice party at the Towers and start collecting resumes for lackeys!"

 

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

Wanda I liked but that twang she had..Oklahoma is midwestern not southern and GL never understood that.

We're not even midwestern, lol!  Most of our state rests in the Great Plains region; so, at best, we speak with a twang, but not a full-blown, Appalachian accent.  As I've said before, though, Pam Long seemed to think she could write Tulsa and everyone from there as if they were from Alabama.

I'm probably going to piss some people off, but, being from Texas and now living in the Deep South, I'm aware that a lot of Oklahomans speak with a twang similar to the Texas twang. Which is very different from the Southern Drawl. Khan, if you are from Oklahoma, you can address this topic better than I can. I don't remember Wanda's accent very well but I kind of remember it being twangy. I don't distinguish Texas and Oklahoma from each other too much but I definitely distinguish Texas and Oklahoma from "the South" and the twang from the drawl. 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

We're not even midwestern, lol!  Most of our state rests in the Great Plains region; so, at best, we speak with a twang, but not a full-blown, Appalachian accent.  As I've said before, though, Pam Long seemed to think she could write Tulsa and everyone from there as if they were from Alabama.

Well, it's not officially in the midwest but a lot of people I know from there consider themselves midwest...(maybe north?) But its..transitional and I agree, not from Alabama..

I come from Central Illinois and many people still speak with a twang, still left over from the migration from Kentucky, etc.

Growing up in the 1970s, we were taught that the Midwest was crop growing territory.  Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri.  

The Great Plains were from North Dakota south to Texas.  North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas.

Not sure why some in those Great Plains states consider themselves Midwesterners.  They are not.  The lifestyles are different.  Wheat fields and cattle ranches dominate much of the territory in those states.  They have cowboys historically.  Those living in the eastern portions of those states (Sioux Falls, Omaha, Kansas City) could argue the point.  Once you hit Lincoln, Topeka and Tulsa?  No way.

I knew someone in Colorado who considered themselves Midwestern, which I found laughable.  Same with someone in Oklahoma thinking they have much in common with someone in Wisconsin.  That's like saying those in Georgia are the same as those in New Hampshire because they're all Easterners.

 

My mom was from South Dakota and no way she would ever consider herself raised in the mid-west.  She had more of a Western vibe since western South Dakota had a more western vibe vs eastern South Dakota.

@KhanPam Long hails from Alabama so it makes sense.    

Beverlee Mckinsey was from Oklahoma, was she not?  She had a slight accent, but it wasn't southern country twang whatsoever.

4 hours ago, Khan said:

Pam Long seemed to think she could write Tulsa and everyone from there as if they were from Alabama.

What's hilarious about the Lewis family is everyone sounds like they come from somewhere different. HB sounds like he's in a Hollywood cowboy movie from the 1940s, Billy sounds like he's from the Deep South, Trish has a very subtle Southern accent, and Josh sounds like he grew up in California.

When Reva was introduced KZ gave her a really thick, almost comical accent. Like a female Foghorn Leghorn. Thankfully, she modified it a great deal over the years. 

Apparently Pamela Long didn't realize there are cultural differences between the southeast and southwest and midwest regions.

Jordan Clarke even starts out with a different accent when he debuted. I'm not sure what he was going for, but it changes noticeably.

I believe Carrie Cromlyn comes from the Kentucky/West Virginia area, which accounts for her twang.

3 hours ago, DeeVee said:

What's hilarious about the Lewis family is everyone sounds like they come from somewhere different. HB sounds like he's in a Hollywood cowboy movie from the 1940s, Billy sounds like he's from the Deep South, Trish has a very subtle Southern accent, and Josh sounds like he grew up in California.

When Reva was introduced KZ gave her a really thick, almost comical accent. Like a female Foghorn Leghorn. Thankfully, she modified it a great deal over the years. 

Not to mention Mindy, who mostly sounds like Valley Girl.

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

being from Texas and now living in the Deep South, I'm aware that a lot of Oklahomans speak with a twang similar to the Texas twang. Which is very different from the Southern Drawl.

Correct.  Of course, I've had people from both coasts remark on how neither me nor my "kinfolk" speak with any discernible twang, accent or drawl.  And you've got native Okies like Reba McEntire, who speaks with a twang I've never heard out of anyone else's mouth, and certainly not in this state.  But, as I've said in the past, I think her twang/accent/drawl/whatever the heck that is is exaggerated.

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I don't distinguish Texas and Oklahoma from each other too much but I definitely distinguish Texas and Oklahoma from "the South" and the twang from the drawl. 

IMO, Oklahoma and Texas have much in common, with neither being as ostentatious as movies and TV shows (including Pam Long and Gail Kobe's GL) make us seem.  Texas, however, might appear more prosperous, whereas our state still bears some scars from failed "urban renewal" and a banking scandal that marked the end of the oil boom and triggered decades of little-to-no economic growth.  (The fact that we now have a championship NBA franchise is a frigging miracle, lol).

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

Apparently Pamela Long didn't realize there are cultural differences between the southeast and southwest and midwest regions.

I agree.  For instance, she always made the Lewises' Tulsa home sound like some plantation out of "Gone with the Wind."  I can't speak for anyone else, but in all my years of traveling throughout this state, I've yet to come across any former plantations.  Certainly not in Tulsa; they're more cosmopolitan than even where I'm from!

4 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Beverlee Mckinsey was from Oklahoma, was she not?

Yep.  She was from McAlester.  Which is also where Reba is from (although, TBF, Reba was raised in nearby Chockie).   

And you're right: Beverlee McKinsey's voice had a slight twang - due more to her husky tone than anything else, IMO - but it wasn't a full-blown Southern accent.

Same goes for Rue McClanahan.  If you listen to her talk - not as Blanche Devereaux, but as herself, lol - she sounds more-or-less like how most Okies sound.  (I'd also include Ted Shackelford and Mary Kay Place on the list of Okies with authentic voices.  Tony Randall?  Not so much).

7 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Well, it's not officially in the midwest but a lot of people I know from there consider themselves midwest...

I think I know the people you speak of, lol, and it all seems silly to me.  I mean, what difference does it make?  As @Speed Racer says, the lifestyles are not the same.  Midwesterners are all about crops, whereas Great Plains people are primarily wheat and cattle (except, of course, in OK and TX, where oil and gas plays a role in our economies as well).  But the rest of the country depends on us both for food and other resources, so.... *shrug*

My best guess: certain individuals don't wish to be identified as coming from the GP, because people from the GP tend to be Bible thumpers and conservative to the EXTREME (although, I think that's changing in KS and NE and even parts of TX).  But that's only a guess.

4 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

My mom was from South Dakota and no way she would ever consider herself raised in the mid-west.  She had more of a Western vibe since western South Dakota had a more western vibe vs eastern South Dakota.

Maybe it's just me, but I've found that the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and even parts of Colorado and Utah have retained a sort of rustic, "frontiersy" vibe that distinguishes them even from the Great Plains and other regions in this country.  In fact, I think they come closer to what everyone assumes OK and TX to be, at least in terms of sprawl.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Khan

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

Apparently Pamela Long didn't realize there are cultural differences between the southeast and southwest and midwest regions.

And if I had been on her writing staff at any time during her two tenures with the show, I would've needed to educate her on those differences, too.  ("With all due respect, Ms. Long, unless Sarah Shayne and her children are 'passing' and/or at least 50% Native American - and they all have their 'Indian numbers' - the idea of her being Miss Martha's personal maid is bullshit.")

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Khan

26 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Not to mention Mindy, who mostly sounds like Valley Girl.

OMG, you are so not kidding about Mindy's accent.  I love KT, but her Melinda Sue always sounded like she was either going to or coming back from the mall, lol.

While I did love the Southern Gothic vibes of the Josh/Reva story... I think Long also failed to understand that Oklahoma, like South Dakota, didn't have the whole southern gothic vibe whatsoever.   

@KhanIt sounds as though Oklahoma and South Dakota had similarities in regards to Native Americans, servants, etc.  

I would have also told Ms Long that if she were insisted on doing her thing with the Lewis family.. I would have stated that they would have most likely had a ranch with cattle/livestock being the main source of their money.. and that the family needed to have more grit/edge to them.. because living in the West and the harsh realities of the vast land.

I also would have said that Reva and her family would have needed to be at least part Native American.. with the whole obstacle being that Reva being part Native American was the barrier for Josh not going with Reva (my part Lakota great grandmother had those same issues when marrying a fully white man back in the 1920s/1930s).

While Long probably would have listened and been open to doing those ideas... I doubt P & G would have.

7 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

While Long probably would have listened and been open to doing those ideas... I doubt P & G would have.

It's funny, because almost everything you described could fit the Buchanans on OLTL (although they were from Texas, not Oklahoma). Even though they also were an obvious bid to cash in on the popularity of Dallas, they did take more care in creating them.

Though they didn't have a character that exactly matched how Reva fit on the GL canvas, when he was young Clint had a "forbidden" romance with a Latina lady of obvious indigenous ancestry. Their romance resulted in the birth of their son Cord, who became a very popular character. 

So, yeah, definitely some missed opportunities for more authentic storytelling.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by DeeVee