18 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Ben had always gotten the least amount of attention. But he'd have been an important component in the future, had TIIC decided to make him a serial killer. Morons.

That is one of those things that was REALLY bad for GL, but very good for the actor. If they had built him up into a major soap star, as they should have, one wonders if Bomer would have had the career he's had up to now. 

They made some really great discoveries of young actors back then. Besides Bomer, Aubrey Dollar, Laura Bell Bundy, Bethany Joy Lenz, and while I hated his character, Tom Pelphrey turned out to be quite a good actor with a solid career. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Edited August 10Aug 10 by DeeVee

12 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Few will disagree with you here.

And as long as we're talking about Vanessa...unfortunately, after JC left the first time, Vanessa was pretty much used in service of the Reva story. TWICE Long tried to convince us that Alan would want to marry Vanessa, but I never bought it, even if it was just for a marriage of convenience. Alan wanted to dominate his wives (that's why his engagement with Reva and marriage to Olivia also didn't fly...but it made total sense for him to want to marry Annie. If it wasn't so cringy, his marriage with Beth would have made sense for the same reason).

He was never going to dominate Vanessa, but Long likely chose her as the third side as a contrast to Reva. Poor, born into nothing Reva, going up against the snobby nepo baby.

Some may argue that Billy dominated Vanessa, but that was different because she was in love with him. Never, ever, would I believe Vanessa falling for Alan's line (or not immediately ejecting Alan's rent-a-whore Elise from his house). It made Vanessa look foolish.

While it was terribly sad when Maeve left at that point, it did cut that part of the story short, which is not a bad thing.

Well, they did try to rebuild Van and Ross, but it just didn't work. Whether it was too soon to move Van on from Billy (who were trying to reunite practically until Billy left) or just the changes in Ross and Vanessa that no longer meshed, I don't know.

I do buy Alan's first proposal, which was more about screwing over Billy and keeping the Chamberlains under the Spaulding wing and influence. Van's transformation was still fresh, so it wasn't as hard to believe she might be swayed by the power of being a Spaulding.

I don't get the second one as much, other than Alan is happy to score one on Ross, and Van is perhaps seeking refuge from her recent disappointments in love.

And tbf, Van was sacrificed for the Reva and Alan story. She even becomes the lynchpin (in a way) of Phillip's takeover of Spaulding, as Phillip and Alex are using the engagement (or breaking thereof) to prod Henry and HB into siding with them and throwing Alan out.

I get the criticism of Van's transformation, but I don't find her as watered down as some. Granted, she has an impressive two-plus years perfecting every intonation of "oh Billy" and managing the domestic end of the Lewises. Had Long allowed the natural rivalry between Van and Reva to develop (which would've echoed the Van/Nola relationship) instead of insisting that Reva was some kind of "authentic" heartstone only the foolish or pure bitch would dare cross, it would've been aces. 

Every time Vanessa has to kind of grit her teeth and let Reva's actions pass just chaps my hide. The 1:30 where she gets to throw Reva's treatment of Billy in her face after Billy finds out Dylan's his son make me stand up and cheer. Of course, it immediately dissolves into more "poor Reva, we can't upset her" schtick that makes my eyes roll back into my head.

47 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

That is one of those things that was REALLY bad for GL, but very good for the actor. If they had built him up into a major soap star, as they should have, one wonders if Bomer would have had the career he's had up to now. 

They made some really great discoveries of young actors back then. Besides Bomer, Aubrey Dollar, Laura Bell Bundy, Bethany Joy Lenz, and while I hated his character, Tom Pelphrey turned out to be quite a good actor with a solid career. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

I kept seeing Sharon Leal (Dahlia) in things too. I totally get Bomer wanting to move on. I loved him in White Collar. I just don't think he made the role unrecastable. Although with Nancy St Alban and Mandy Bruno as evidence, maybe they had a point.

2 hours ago, MLH said:

The most heartbreaking for me was the aging up Little Marah.  I only got two short years with her on the show. Ashley Peldon was awesome in her role.  I don't get why they didn't get her back. 

Ashley Peldon and Kimberly J. Brown were both born in 1984, so AFAIK Marah stayed the same age 1989-1998.

1 hour ago, Lujack4Ever said:

Reva however never did it for me and she basically ate the show all the way up to the final curtain.

Whether we like Reva or not, she was GL's definitive character of the final 25 years.

2 hours ago, DeeVee said:

While it was terribly sad when Maeve left at that point, it did cut that part of the story short, which is not a bad thing.

Curiously, Long really seemed to skip over the engagement to Alan plot point when Maeve returned. Vanessa goes right back to zeroing in on Ross, and Ross at one point asserts that she left him to go to Venezuela and take care of Billy.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Curiously, Long really seemed to skip over the engagement to Alan plot point when Maeve returned. Vanessa goes right back to zeroing in on Ross, and Ross at one point asserts that she left him to go to Venezuela and take care of Billy.

Wasn't Alan on the way out the door by the time she came back? His relationship with Reva was over by then, too, so I can see why they didn't want to dredge all that up. Besides, he was too busy trying to gun down Roger for no apparent reason. 😂

38 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Wasn't Alan on the way out the door by the time she came back? His relationship with Reva was over by then, too, so I can see why they didn't want to dredge all that up. Besides, he was too busy trying to gun down Roger for no apparent reason. 😂

Yes, Alan is in jail when Vanessa returns to town in July. Daniel Pilon makes occasional appearances until at least November but it's connected to the Beth being alive plot.

I mean, I guess I get not wanting to dredge up a brief engagement, especially as it was with Chris Bernau's Alan. But it's not like the audience hadn't been reminded that Vanessa left town to help Billy several times.

PJ:    Wonderful writeup re: Van/Reva.  Yes, theirs should have been a full blown-up rivalry.  Can't have that though, not with Reva and Zimmer on the canvas.  I mean, how would it look?

I always thought that numerous GL characters should have been regularly snickering about all things Reva behind her back, just like people would do in real life.  Characters laughing at Reva, lots of eye-rolling, comments made about how it's best simply to avoid her, etc.  

Reva was *always* so entitled, wasn't she?  Yeesh.

 

9 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

This is why I can't watch most of the 80s vs 89/90 where the relationship between her Billy and Josh is more believable. 

I wish she never came back.  

1 minute ago, MLH said:

This is why I can't watch most of the 80s vs 89/90 where the relationship between her Billy and Josh is more believable. 

I wish she never came back.  

The show would have chugged along just fine without her. No Goshen/Alan obsession redux, no San Christohell, no clone, no time travel. She subtracted more than she added to the show, IMO.

To be clear about what I said about Reva:

I would have actually been fine with her being the kind of character who refused to be put on a shelf because she aged. But KZ wanted to be the show's main romantic heroine, the STAR.

A great example of an actor who played a woman who refused to be put on a shelf as she aged was Jeanne Cooper on Y&R. But the difference is, she understood she was part of an ensemble cast. She never was the focus of the show. (There's a certain male actor on the same show who never quite understood the assignment, LOL).

I think because KZ had to be accommodated in this way, it dragged the show down. 

@alwaysAMC I remember a mag cover with Roger/Amanda and Hart/Dinah asking who will marry first. I need to find it again to see when it was written. I don't know what it says. 

@DeeeDee With how this show treated the actors, I don't blame Kim.

I don't think Kim Zimmer is a good supporting actress on GL. Is she a good team player? I would say those are separate things. For example, she was exceedingly boring when she was a supporting player in the Sonni/Solita stuff. However, I found her incredibly moving on her episode of "Designing Women" and I think she could have carved a career out for herself where she didn't have to bear the weight of always having to be the face of a show. Even if she ended up being the guest star queen, that's still a career of sorts. 

 

On 8/10/2025 at 11:47 AM, alwaysAMC said:

Dinah gets Hart to accept it and Bridget/Hart/Dinah/Matt have a tearful goodbye. I can’t believe that was her final episode - what about saying goodbye to Nola and others??

Philip keeps pushing Harley about Mallet and she finally confesses they’re no longer together.

Ugh...Rauchie could care less about the Readons (yet dull as dirt FauxEleni gets screen time...cause Im sure he thought she was HOT...) and wanted them off the screen..Nola just stuck around to ride out Brown's contract and because viewers got wind of him wanting to get rid of the family. At least keep Bridget around until Van comes back.  And lord...Van not wanting to claim her family, her wealth and her power all because the dull pretty boy is banging her psycho daughter (or so she thinks...blah...)

Again, why is Phillip wasting his time sniffing after Harley, his ex sister her law that he never showed an attraction to, then claiming his stake in Spaulding now that Alex is gone? So, stupid...again Rauch's edit that tis "all about passion" but it makes all the adults look like teenagers.

On 8/10/2025 at 1:42 PM, alwaysAMC said:

I have to say so far, Annie definitely outshines Reva in the first half of 1997.

Annie outshone Reva during the entire time, as weirdly they wrote her..she did have an inner (psycho) life and purpose...(to live life at the fullest and make her enemies jealous...) but Reva during this time has no inner life. What does she want?? Josh, not even her kids or her family or her old life...jsut Josh. So she spend the rest of Annie time reacting to Annie as she walks around in beige pantsuits and does nothing (at least she was a photographer before) and acts like she is a down rent Vicki from OLTL.