Not to pile on Zimmer, but she's also the one who lied about the reason her son quit ATWT. I understand why she lied, but she did lie. And she lied about the lie. 

@Deevee I fear we are going to see a repeat of that era. I agree with everything you said. Maybe it's just an ingrained way of thinking that is so difficult to unlearn with some of the "old school" soap performers. Joseph Breen was treated so abominably. He was cast aside as if he didn't even matter. They behaved like he never existed. It was shocking. 

As for Beth Ehlers, @Veewrote this about Ehlers/Zimmer in 2012: "The difference is that Kim Zimmer, for as obnoxious as can be, understood her place at, say, OLTL when she jumped networks. She was the veteran supporting player, period, and was happy for it. She speaks in barely-veiled terms about Beth Ehlers' fall at GL in her dishy little book and I think the difference between the women was pretty clear. Zimmer's difficult personality seemed entirely different from how Ehlers conducted herself."

For those interested, there is a lot of discussion about Ehlers, GL, AMC and Zimmer's book in this thread: 

 

Edited June 14Jun 14 by chrisml

I read Kim's book repeatedly. I'm not a superfan of hers or anything and yes, it was obvious back then she got some dates, etc. fuzzy and elided some details like Bernau. I thought she was just being respectful, since it was only just after the end of the show IIRC. She was very candid about drinking on the job and being deeply depressed near the end of GL (and less candid about having a problem at the time IMO - she insists it wasn't serious, and I'm not sure I buy that), and she needed the money but I do think she was also telling the truth about not wanting to give P&G or CBS the satisfaction of her leaving. Both things can be true.

Since I was @'ed in the last post, AFAIC Kim never lied about why her son left ATWT. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what's being discussed atm but I see no evidence of that. The rumor BITD at the time was that Kim pulled Jake from ATWT because she didn't want him playing a gay character, and that she was homophobic. This is untrue. She admits in her book she was concerned about backlash from bigoted fans, but said (then and in the memoir) that her primary concern was his schooling and being able to be a normal kid in HS. Jake has backed this up in recent interviews. There's no lie there.

Kim Zimmer can be obnoxious, exhausting, hilarious or fun, but she always gave 110% onscreen even when I found her intolerable onscreen in the late '90s and early 2000s, and she shoots from the hip. Even when I agree or disagree with her takes or loudmouth opinions (some I do, many I don't) I respect that, and I thought she did great work in horrible conditions at the end of GL as well as in her return stint on OLTL. And her '80s work really holds up.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Vee

3 hours ago, P.J. said:

They showed Dinah and Mallet meeting up in Europe (she either had car trouble or was trying to pull a con by pretending she was having car trouble) and then crashing a church wedding because Dinah "always" loved the part where they said "I do", which was stupid. (But it made clear that Dinah and Mallet had reunited, which...well, whatever. Not a fan.)  Not nearly as stupid as the episode they devoted to Jeffrey chasing Edmund (which no one gave a flyin' fig about) through something. But still. RME. 

At least we didn't get an unnecessary update on Cassie.

I'm probably the last one to know, but in case anyone else doesn't, in the main discussion forum, the topic "Look at 1975" has synopses from all the shows from '75 to '78. It also has some from as early as '72 or '73. 

Thanks very much for this intel. I did not know.

10 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

I always preferred MH as Ed, as he was on when I was a kid, watching and waiting for Match Game 76 to come on..but with Parker as Mo, I can see how Simon works better, as he is more volatile and emotional, where she is the calming influence. His work post Mo kicking it is so lethargic, and he is just there...I dont think the writers knew what the hell to do with him without Mo...the only option was for him to be completely unglued and start drinking and Rick stabilizes him (adult Rick never worked as a romantic interest or having drama, he too was good as a stabilizer a role too often looked over for more OT characters. )or Mike comes back to take over as the patriarch.

Peter was the first Ed I ever saw, and aside from Robert Gentry's brief return and a few short clips of Mart in the 50th special, the only Ed I saw for a long time. When I finally got to see Mart on a more sustained basis, I understood why a number of older fans couldn't accept Peter Simon as Ed. 

I still appreciate Peter's work in the role, but he's a very solemn figure, aside from some light joking around with Ross, Maureen or Rick. Even then you feel like his Ed is forcing himself to joke around, especially with Maureen. He veers between haunted and pissy.

I think this could have worked if they had properly written for Ed (and Peter Simon had wanted to stay), but he never could have been a patriarch. That's where they should have brought Mike back. Don Stewart showed what could have been in his very short 1997 appearance.

 

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I read Kim's book repeatedly. I'm not a superfan of hers or anything and yes, it was obvious back then she got some dates, etc. fuzzy and elided some details like Bernau. I thought she was just being respectful, since it was only just after the end of the show IIRC. 

Since I was @'ed in the last post, AFAIC Kim never lied about why her son left ATWT. 

Kim Zimmer can be obnoxious, exhausting, hilarious or fun, but she always gave 110% onscreen even when I found her intolerable onscreen in the late '90s and early 2000s, and she shoots from the hip. Even when I agree or disagree with her takes or loudmouth opinions (some I do, many I don't) I respect that, and I thought she did great work in horrible conditions at the end of GL as well as in her return stint on OLTL. And her '80s work really holds up.

Vee, I'm sorry to confuse you. I mean to use your post to attach to the Ehlers discussion, but it attached to my Kim Zimmer post. The decades old Beth Ehlers thread covers a lot of what we are now discussion about Zimmer's blind item so I thought it would be helpful for people. I often forget you can't do two posts so soon after each other because they're combined. 

I don't think Kim Zimmer is homophobic, but her stories did change about why Weary left ATWT. And that's why there were constant questions about it because she kept explaining herself. It felt like Zimmer was overexplaining because she was getting accused of being homophobic so then the overexplaining just made people suspicious.

I love messy people, but it would be nice to have someone reliable when he/she is writing about bts stuff on a show. It feels like so many people on GL have no idea what was really going on at GL or choose not to know. 

12 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I don't think Kim Zimmer is homophobic, but her stories did change about why Weary left ATWT. And that's why there were constant questions about it because she kept explaining herself. It felt like Zimmer was overexplaining because she was getting accused of being homophobic so then the overexplaining just made people suspicious.

The fact remains, she didn't lie. From what I remember at least, Kim said back then in the mid-2000s she wanted Jake to focus on school and being a kid vs. being sucked into a contract at ATWT. She stood by that in her book, and it's exactly what Jake said very recently himself. She admitted in the book she was also concerned about bigots coming at her kid, but her primary motive was as stated.

There's plenty of messy behavior people can zing Kim Zimmer on, but I don't think that one's fair.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Vee

12 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

More chapter summaries of Kim's book:

Chapter 5 - she talks about her early days at Guiding Light. She said Reva was probably a little too hard to take in the beginning because she played her larger than life. Kim and Pam Long had such a love/hate relationship and both felt like they were part of Reva, so when they disagreed about the writing/portrayal of Reva, they would really get into it until they both saw each other’s sides and Kim would usually always then cave to what Pam wanted. Pam lived vicariously through Reva. She then talks about her friendship with Robert Newman and what a dream he’s been; they’re basically the most intimate relationship she’s ever had without being physical in the real world. They trusted each other and were so connected as scene partners. They spent nearly every day together for 2 straight years. They would sometimes get in fights, like true married couples, mostly about storylines or how they felt about their character’s reactions to things. Kim calls out the storyline where Reva is dying of cancer and Josh is ‘canoodling’ with Cassie. Kim hated it and Josh felt it was something his character would do and they got into a fight about it.

Because Reva was with so many men, she warned new actors that came onto GL that their character will be in love with Reva within a week. On set she would always say Reva has a golden pu$$y, and even sang that to the tune of the Willy Wonka song “I’ve got a golden ticket”. 😳😂

She talks about the set used in the 80s and how there was a party room where lots of things went on that you could only whisper about. Lots of experimentation because after all, it was the 80s. She didn’t name names, but said one of the younger actresses at the time got so wasted one night that she ended up getting duct taped to the outside of the office door. She actually admitted that she never saw that with her own eyes.

She talks about Chris Bernau - a real ballbuster. He scared lots of people because he was so focused on getting the job done right and moving on; he lived and breathed the character of Alan Spaulding. There was no laughter with him and others, but of course Kim says she got to make him laugh a lot and they gave each other sh!t. She thinks he might have gotten a bug on one of his exotic trips (he traveled a lot) and that’s what led to his early death.

She liked and admired Tina Sloan (Lillian) and her work, but they rarely shared scenes together. They were friends but total opposites in real life. Tina was a classic Upper East Side elitist, married to a very rich husband and she only likely worked because she enjoyed it, not because she had to. She insisted that Kim get a car and driver  vs. taking the bus to work once she moved to New Jersey, but Kim refused. She comes from a blue collar family who works hard, saves their money and didn’t want to be seen as a diva.

Large party or courtroom scenes were hard to shoot because they were 16-20 hour days with several contract/day-players involved. Courtroom scenes in particular were boring for them because they had to sit in pews the entire time, so they tried to make games out of it. She admired Jerry (Ross) for having the hardest job during those scenes, delivering 5-10 pages of dialogue alone in front of everyone.

Grant (Phillip) and Michael (Rick) shared a dressing room and it was known as Chez Phillipe, the party lounge. Grant made the best margaritas from scratch, but eventually it got shot down because too many actors showed up toasted on set.

During the last few years of GL, she admitted that she would drink 2-3 glasses of wine at lunch each day and then go back and shoot scenes. She called it self-medicating because she was fed up with pretty much everything, but wouldn’t give GL the satisfaction of quitting. She drank to make the days more tolerable. She made pals with the on-set crew and would talk sh!t about the executives, who could overhear her, but she didn’t care. Wow - now I want to go watch some of those episodes and see if I can tell haha.

Chapter 6 - she goes into the more standout actors she enjoyed and had the most privilege knowing or working with at GL:

1. Beverlee McKinsey (Alexandra) - Kim aspired to be just like her; unlike other actors, Kim was the only one where Beverlee forgot her lines a lot, so Kim asked if it’s something she’s doing and Beverelee said she just gets lost in her blue eyes and forgets where she is (hmm); underneath her wit and charm was a hurt and angry woman, and didn’t hold her tongue when she didn’t like creative decisions that were made; tells the story she was told about Beverlee’s mandated contract agreement to take the same month off each year, but in 1992, no one came to renegotiate with her, so when her month came, she took it and never came back to work - she had someone clean out her dressing room and that was it; Kim was very sad and upset with the Emmys for not doing a tribute to Beverlee when she died in 2008 and they left her out of the memorial tribute they do each year (wtf!).
2. Michael Zaslow (Roger) - apparently Zas was tired of playing Roger and wanted to make sure there was no possibility that his character could come back, so they had him die in 1980 by falling off a cliff and he insisted they show his battered and broken dead body so there was no doubt (ha - he returns 8 years later); a force to be reckoned with and took no sh!t from anyone; told it like it was and knew the character of Roger so well and fought hard for him; if a scene was written about Roger any less than who Michael thought he was, he’d throw a royal fit until it was fixed to his liking; talked about his ALS and she said it was shocking to her that GL didn’t renew his contract, leaving him sick AND without a job; fortunate that he still had friends at ABC that wrote for him on OLTL until he could no longer go on; his memorial was one of the most moving experiences of her life and she misses him terribly.
3. Vince Williams (Hampton) - one of the nicest and gentlest man she’s ever known, never said an unkind word about anyone; in 1990, at Kim’s going away party, he played “You Are So Beautiful” on his sax as a gift to her and it was one of the best gifts she’s ever received; she then said she never had a chance to work with him again, as he died from cancer shortly after she moved back to LA. This can’t be right though, as Hamp was on GL in 1995 during her return, granted she was in Goshen that entire year so they never had a scene together, but he was also in 5-6 episodes I’ve seen throughout 1996 as well. I guess they didn’t have a chance to run into each other if they never shared and scene and he was barely on, but he certainly didn’t pass while she wasn’t at GL.
4. Charita Bauer (Bert) - talks about losing her foot and how they wrote that into storyline (losing her leg) and would mentor Robert Newman when his character was in a car accident and became paralyzed (“old guard teaching the new regime”); Kim never worked with her, as she left GL the year before Kim started and soon passed a year later, but Robert told her so many stories of how great she was; a very salt of the earth person.

Another juicy mystery to solve: she then goes on to say soap casts are like family and sometimes there is a black sheep or troublemaker that doesn’t last. She talks about an actress that fell in love with every costar of hers, and those costars who were the object of her affection were all too happy to oblige. She fell in love with one costar while she was married, so divorced her husband to be with him and move in with him. That relationship didn’t last, so her next costar conquest, who was also married (and she already remarried to someone outside the soap business), got with her so she divorced her husband, the costar was planning to get out of his marriage but then got cold feet and never left his wife. Kim said this was the first time she knew her both unmarried and now single and she was scorned like no other. The actress was miserable on set, off set, everywhere she went; her presence on set was a dark energy until she eventually left the show, however Kim was secretly upset she left because the show suffered from the loss of her character.  Who could that be??

Chapter 7 - mostly about her husband, 3 kids and being pregnant while filming.  She mentioned bringing her son Max on set to take care of him, which Chris Bernau (Alan) despised. However one day, she caught Chris holding her baby and cooing at him in a sweet moment, and it made her see him in a completely different light. Kim also talked about some struggles she had with never being home with her husband during the long work weeks, or some weekends when they had to do press tours or mall visits with fans. She said she wishes she would have gone straight home after work sometimes vs. going out with Robert Newman while he was single in her first few years on GL. She even said it was fun to go out with her love interest and flirt in real life (uhh…you’re married, Kim haha). She said she never had sex with any of her costars/love interests in real life, but fell in love with being in love with them on-screen.

Thank you for writing this summary.  ❤️

12 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I believe that BE & Matt, the father of her two boys, were together when she left GL. Ricky Paull def left first.

No, I remember an interview where Ehlers said that she was split up with her husband before she got together with Derwin as he was not the type to screw someone's wife (not in those words of course.)

Re: Kim leaving or sticking it out to the bitter end...Part of me think Kim didn't want the blowback that Martha Byrne got when she left ATWT in '07. 

Re Jake---regardless of what her motives were, I'm not even sure P&G wasn't glad. It gave them the out to get an older actor into that role and allowed them to lean into all the publicity generated from Luke's coming out.

6 hours ago, Vee said:

There's plenty of messy behavior people can zing Kim Zimmer on, but I don't think that one's fair.

Yea, I seriously doubt that a woman working that long in soaps could be homophobic...Three of her leading men were gay or bi ( Bernau, Malloy, Sean Island Muscle Boy) not to mention behind the scenes staff (and I know a lot of her fans are hausfraus but I can imagine she has heard "Well if it isn't Reva Shayne, the Slut of Springfield..come over here girl" shouted at her in public..)so she would have had a very hard time in her career if that were the case. 

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think this could have worked if they had properly written for Ed (and Peter Simon had wanted to stay), but he never could have been a patriarch. That's where they should have brought Mike back. Don Stewart showed what could have been in his very short 1997 appearance.

Agree, by that time Ross had become the lawyer/patriarch so they may have felt they didn't need Mike or weren't the least bit concerned with having a patriarch when you have to come up with more storyline to feed the RevaMonster. 

I heard they asked MH to come back but he refused, I don't know how accurate that was. I do think the Steward was not the warmest actor and the show needed a Papa/Bert/Mo figure to head the Bauer family. I wish they had brought MH back in 97, and let the Roger ALS story play out..imagine watching those actors play that out with the history..After Roger is gone and Fletch is mercifully off the screen, they could have reunited Ed and Holly. I think MH's warmth would have been a nice counter to MG's ironic sarcasm "Reva and Josh broke up, oh yes, it's Tuesday." 

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

No, I remember an interview where Ehlers said that she was split up with her husband before she got together with Derwin as he was not the type to screw someone's wife (not in those words of course.)

I'm talking about the husband she got after Mark. Are we confused yet? YES!

You don't seem to know it but you are referring to her first husband, not  Matt. Now, are we together?

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Contessa Donatella

8 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I'm talking about the husband she got after Mark. Are we confused yet? YES!

You don't seem to know it but you are referring to her first husband, not  Matt. Now, are we together?

Who knows...Ehlers goes through men like she thought she was the real life Reva. She must have been damn good at something, as she scored some hot a** I will give that to her.

43 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Yea, I seriously doubt that a woman working that long in soaps could be homophobic...Three of her leading men were gay or bi ( Bernau, Malloy, Sean Island Muscle Boy) not to mention behind the scenes staff (and I know a lot of her fans are hausfraus but I can imagine she has heard "Well if it isn't Reva Shayne, the Slut of Springfield..come over here girl" shouted at her in public..)so she would have had a very hard time in her career if that were the case. 

Wait, Larkin Malloy was gay? Haha I had no idea!  Travis Montgomery, who knew!  

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

 Agree, by that time Ross had become the lawyer/patriarch so they may have felt they didn't need Mike or weren't the least bit concerned with having a patriarch when you have to come up with more storyline to feed the RevaMonster. 

I heard they asked MH to come back but he refused, I don't know how accurate that was. I do think the Steward was not the warmest actor and the show needed a Papa/Bert/Mo figure to head the Bauer family. I wish they had brought MH back in 97, and let the Roger ALS story play out..imagine watching those actors play that out with the history..After Roger is gone and Fletch is mercifully off the screen, they could have reunited Ed and Holly. I think MH's warmth would have been a nice counter to MG's ironic sarcasm "Reva and Josh broke up, oh yes, it's Tuesday." 

I'm not sure what point Mike would've served with only Ed's kids in town. Although God knows, Michelle's husband always needed an attorney.

Don't get me wrong, I think Mike returning would've made more sense than Meta, but GL obviously wasn't going to bring back Hope and Alan-Michael. Mike could've been the resident lawyer, since Ross was always bouncing around between lawyer/mayor/candlestick maker.

When did AW kill off Barbara Berjer's character again? I wish that'd happened, rather than Meta.

12 hours ago, chrisml said:

I agree with everything you said. Maybe it's just an ingrained way of thinking that is so difficult to unlearn with some of the "old school" soap performers. Joseph Breen was treated so abominably. He was cast aside as if he didn't even matter. They behaved like he never existed. It was shocking. 

Woe to anyone who became ill, and it didn't necessarily have to be HIV or AIDS. I'm sure there were other sudden departures by actors that were never explained that had to do with TPTB not wanting to deal with actors who were ill.

Did Breen ever sue them? I would think he would have had a case, though that probably would have totally decimated his career. I believe he went on to have a theater career after that happened.

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Peter was the first Ed I ever saw, and aside from Robert Gentry's brief return

I had NO idea Gentry ever returned as Ed. Do you remember what the time period was?

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

I heard they asked MH to come back but he refused

Didn't Mart claim that one of the reasons he was let go was because he was very active and vocal in the actors union? If that's the case, that probably soured him from coming back to CBS. He appeared on AMC for a short time. Not sure if he did any others post-GL.

57 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Wait, Larkin Malloy was gay? Haha I had no idea!  Travis Montgomery, who knew!

I was also surprised to hear this recently. Back in the day, he was supposedly in a relationship with actress Marcia Cross when she was on OLTL. He used to wear a Claddagh ring. (It's an Irish symbol with a heart held by hands and topped with a crown. The way you wear it indicates where you are in a relationship). He claimed he and Cross had exchanged rings and he always wore his on screen no matter what character he was playing. They never got married. She married eventually, but he never did.

Of course, he could have been bi, OR, Cross could have been his beard. Again, it was considered career suicide for a male actor to be openly gay if he was a romantic lead on a soap.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by DeeVee