19 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

As long as no names were directly mentioned, it's a bit of a harmless lie, but you are right that she could have just heard something, or someone said that to her at the time rather than just saying the story wasn't popular and she was being written out. Or it could have been true, of course.

I think a lot of the time, a producer will spread a story to let an actor (or themselves) off the hook. "Oh just tell Zimmer she is very popular but someone with pull is jealous and wants her out." Actors are ALL narcissists so its easy to believe something like that.

 The rumor Zimmer writes about sounds like something Paul Rauch would have told Zimmer about Jacqueline Courtney as a way to discredit Courtney as Rauch loved to do that sort of thing. Zimmer probably just retroactively fit it into her story. Zimmer does not have good sense of time in her memoir. Who knows?!!? Zimmer strikes me as someone who always has to be competing with women. 

Zimmer and 1986: If I had no context and someone told me that someone in the 1986 scenes would win four Emmys, I would immediately pick Denniston. Granted, I've only watched about a week's worth, but my word, Zimmer just fades into the background even when she's the main player in the storyline. There's no life in her performances. It feels that Zimmer is unhappy and that she's letting it impact her acting. 

36 minutes ago, chrisml said:

 The rumor Zimmer writes about sounds like something Paul Rauch would have told Zimmer about Jacqueline Courtney as a way to discredit Courtney as Rauch loved to do that sort of thing. Zimmer probably just retroactively fit it into her story. Zimmer does not have good sense of time in her memoir. Who knows?!!? Zimmer strikes me as someone who always has to be competing with women. 

Zimmer and 1986: If I had no context and someone told me that someone in the 1986 scenes would win four Emmys, I would immediately pick Denniston. Granted, I've only watched about a week's worth, but my word, Zimmer just fades into the background even when she's the main player in the storyline. There's no life in her performances. It feels that Zimmer is unhappy and that she's letting it impact her acting. 

Kim used to say that you can tell when she was unhappy because she would try weird or new things with her hair. 

I don't think Rauch was at OLTL at the time Zimmer was but their producer at the time probably wasn't much of a peach either. 

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Kim used to say that you can tell when she was unhappy because she would try weird or new things with her hair. 

I don't think Rauch was at OLTL at the time Zimmer was but their producer at the time probably wasn't much of a peach either. 

She definitely was trying new things with her hair and makeup in the 1986 scenes I saw so it tracks.

Rauch wouldn't have been there, but it just strikes me as a conversation Rauch would have had with her with when he was at GL. Rauch loved to badmouth JC. So she put it in the book as if she had been told at the time. It's like how she has Michelle Forbes on GL years before she actually arrives or Ellen Wheeler firing people who had been fired yrs. before by Rauch or Conboy.

15 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Kim used to say that you can tell when she was unhappy because she would try weird or new things with her hair. 

I don't think Rauch was at OLTL at the time Zimmer was but their producer at the time probably wasn't much of a peach either. 

Cady McClain said the same thing with her hairdos - she switched it up so much because she was either unhappy or bored.  Kim must have been unhappy in 1996 because she has so many different short styles, it's wild (haha).

11 minutes ago, chrisml said:

She definitely was trying new things with her hair and makeup in the 1986 scenes I saw so it tracks.

Rauch wouldn't have been there, but it just strikes me as a conversation Rauch would have had with her with when he was at GL. Rauch loved to badmouth JC. So she put it in the book as if she had been told at the time. It's like how she has Michelle Forbes on GL years before she actually arrives or Ellen Wheeler firing people who had been fired yrs. before by Rauch or Conboy.

That makes sense. Rauch did like to play games, as shown with some of the antics with the Labines.

11 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Cady McClain said the same thing with her hairdos - she switched it up so much because she was either unhappy or bored.  Kim must have been unhappy in 1996 because she has so many different short styles, it's wild (haha).

We should make some screencaps. 

I can imagine her not being thrilled by much of anything in 1996.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

The rumor Zimmer writes about sounds like something Paul Rauch would have told Zimmer about Jacqueline Courtney as a way to discredit Courtney as Rauch loved to do that sort of thing. Zimmer probably just retroactively fit it into her story.

I would REALLY like to know why Rauch and Harding Lemay hated Jacqueline Courtney so much. The hate for her almost shimmered off of Lemay's book. He constantly ripped her acting. I never understood it. Was she the greatest actress ever? No, but she very good and had that certain something that made audiences like her. Lemay adored her replacement on AW. I forget her name--because she was extremely forgettable!

There's got to be some story behind that story.

Kim may indeed have got the story second hand but I believe if there is any truth to it, Jacquie Courtney may have been the actress involved.

She was in a relationship with Joe stuart EP. This came to light when she did a photo shoot at her apartment and a photo of Stuart was on her bedside table.

Echo's arrival coincided with Henry Slesar coming on as co headwriter.

Pat had little story at that time. So Jacquie may have been feeling insecure. I'm sure there was gossip at the studio.

Anyway when Jean Arley arrives as EP, replacing Stuart, Pat is written out and the Echo story is dropped and Kim along with it.

So I think Kim got things a bit confused and/or misremembered.

Y'all are so smart, I love this team work!  

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

We should make some screencaps. 

I can imagine her not being thrilled by much of anything in 1996.

I really should because that would be fun, I just need to figure out how to do that on here haha. I see people doing it in the BtG threads all the time and always wondered how they do that without saving photos to their computer and then uploading them - that just seems like it would take a lot of time. 

7 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Kim wasn’t Pam’s first choice for Reva, she was hoping for a red-headed, firecracker Southern Belle, but Kim ultimately got the part. 

I can't imagine anyone other than Kim Zimmer as Reva. Whether you like her or not, Reva was GL's definitive character of the final 25 years.

18 hours ago, chrisml said:

Speaking of 1986, YT recommended me some 1986 episodes revolving around Kyle/Reva/Maeve/Fletcher/Cain. What struck me most about the episodes is Zimmer seems at a loss. This does not feel like Reva at all. Was Kyle always such an a-hole? Why was the pairing so popular? He's so unlikeable, and Malloy's theatrical acting does not help matters. Jay Hammer is extremely charming as Fletcher--did they ever try Reva and Fletcher? The real star of these episodes is Leslie Denniston. When she tells Kyle she wants a divorce, it's a fantastic scene and Denniston is putting in some great work while the stuff around her is just weird and off-putting. 

I can see Kim thinking to herself---why would I be so emotionally invested in a guy who literally looks like he is the slasher in a slasher film? 

I think they tried expanding Reva's reach and having her anchor this story, and it doesn't work. I don't think anyone could've really, as Cain is never a compelling figure.

It is a hoot seeing a younger Victor Garber though.

I'd speculate that Reva and Kyle were popular because the viewers didn't expect Josh back, and they wanted to see Reva happy. Otherwise, I don't get it. He's more controlling than generous.

32 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I can't imagine anyone other than Kim Zimmer as Reva. Whether you like her or not, Reva was GL's definitive character of the final 25 years.

I watched a little of the actress that Long supposedly wanted for the role. She doesn't seem very good. In Texas, she seems to be very similar to Vanessa, and I can't imagine her projecting a more down to earth image.

Edited June 11Jun 11 by P.J.

53 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Kim may indeed have got the story second hand but I believe if there is any truth to it, Jacquie Courtney may have been the actress involved.

She was in a relationship with Joe stuart EP. This came to light when she did a photo shoot at her apartment and a photo of Stuart was on her bedside table.

Echo's arrival coincided with Henry Slesar coming on as co headwriter.

Pat had little story at that time. So Jacquie may have been feeling insecure. I'm sure there was gossip at the studio.

Anyway when Jean Arley arrives as EP, replacing Stuart, Pat is written out and the Echo story is dropped and Kim along with it.

So I think Kim got things a bit confused and/or misremembered.

As you point out,  Courtney seems to be the only logical person if the rumor was told to Zimmer and it's not just something she wrote to spice up the book. It could also be that Zimmer knew about the JC/JS relationship and just assumed that was the reason for her firing.

It just reeks of Paul Rauch badmouthing Courtney though. I don't know why he and Lemay had it out for her. @DeeVee

25 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I can see Kim thinking to herself---why would I be so emotionally invested in a guy who literally looks like he is the slasher in a slasher film? 

I think they tried expanding Reva's reach and having her anchor this story, and it doesn't work. I don't think anyone could've really, as Cain is never a compelling figure.

It is a hoot seeing a younger Victor Garber though.

I'd speculate that Reva and Kyle were popular because the viewers didn't expect Josh back, and they wanted to see Reva happy. Otherwise, I don't get it. He's more controlling than generous.

I watched a little of the actress that Long supposedly wanted for the role. She doesn't seem very good. In Texas, she seems to be very similar to Vanessa, and I can't imagine her projecting a more down to earth image.

I think Larkin was a very dashing and charismatic figure, but they started way too hot, made the character too unpleasant, and then pulled too far back with the tedious triangle. They also needed to get Reva away from the Lewises at that point rather than tying Kyle to them. They did this somewhat with the suicide attempt and working with Fletcher but not enough.

I wonder what Pam Long's plans would have been for Cain. Jerry Lanning was always a mix of sinister and very cold to me, but she must have had some idea for him as she had also used him on Texas.

Edited June 11Jun 11 by DRW50

29 minutes ago, chrisml said:

As you point out,  Courtney seems to be the only logical person if the rumor was told to Zimmer and it's not just something she wrote to spice up the book. It could also be that Zimmer knew about the JC/JS relationship and just assumed that was the reason for her firing.

It just reeks of Paul Rauch badmouthing Courtney though. I don't know why he and Lemay had it out for her. @DeeVee

If all true and this is the right leading lady, it may make sense why Kim didn't mention her by name, since Courtney passed away in Dec 2010, just under a year before the book came out in 2011. That would be the respectful thing to do, and it's not like Kim was shy about name dropping others in the book. All speculation though haha.

Edited June 11Jun 11 by alwaysAMC

9 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think Larkin was a very dashing and charismatic figure, but they started way too hot and then pulled too far back with the tedious triangle. They also needed to get Reva away from the Lewises at that point rather than tying Kyle to them. They did this somewhat with the suicide attempt and working with Fletcher but not enough.

I wonder what Pam Long's plans would have been for Cain. Jerry Lanning was always a mix of sinister and very cold to me, but she must have had some idea for him as she had also used him on Texas.

I could see where Kyle was intriguing for a hot minute, given that he was a millionaire with a secret grudge against the Lewises. But the entire premise for his grudge is stupid, and Reva's insta attraction to him doesn't fly. 

I do think Reva needed to be separated from the Lewises, but she always comes off as a little lost without them, imo. I'm surprised they tied Kyle to them so rapidly. They could've drawn that story out for the entire two years Larkin was there.