1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Was this when P&G asked the Dobsons to switch with Marland?

No, that happened earlier. In late 1979, the Dobsons were writing GL and were asked to switch with Marland, who was doing a stint at ATWT. He went back to ATWT a year or two after he quit GL over Jane Elliot being fired.

When Marland quit GL, he was briefly replace by Pat Falken Smith, then there were a bunch of other writers that came and went after her, and then Pam Long took over.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

I've caught some more of Trish and early Trish/Ross, and can't help but think they mishandled them. It seems like Chris Bernau's exit kind of stymied the progression of their romance, as they now don't really have an outside enemy to fight against.

Rebecca Hollen (Trish) said in The Locher Room that she and Jerry were very keen on being paired, but for some reason it never really took off. It is odd that outside of that one blip where she was used to break up Alan and Hope and then was the excuse for Alan to go after Ross, she never got a major story. Even then, I think she was only put in there because she was the one female character not involved in a major story who could credibly be inserted into the Spaulding office. It was weird that Alan was ready to toss his marriage for her. She was SO much like Hope, she was even an alcoholic like Hope. Obviously, it was story tossed together very quickly to get Hope off the canvas. 

Anyway, it's a shame they never gave Hollen a strong story, especially considering how Long made the Lewises so prominent.

50 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

It would have been so much more compelling and believable, had they played Warren as openly gay.  A sexless straight baddy/sidekick really doesn't work. Writing Warren like the eunuch version of Roger Thorpe was a head scratcher...

I don't know about eunuch, but I was thinking today while watching one of the Dreaming Death episodes that Warren always acted like he had a huge sign around his neck that said "Loser." A very ineffective villain. 

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

In 1982, Vanessa is very much used to advance other plots. While it's not exactly out-of-character, she's markedly colder and more controlling. She does thaw a bit towards the end of the year. By the end of the year, she has mended some fences with Ross, which is nice to see. I do wonder where Marland would've taken Vanessa had he stayed. He'd reset both Nola and Ross...so he did like to give his gray characters a redemption. 

I've caught some more of Trish and early Trish/Ross, and can't help but think they mishandled them. It seems like Chris Bernau's exit kind of stymied the progression of their romance, as they now don't really have an outside enemy to fight against.

Warren started out as a slimy user, and somehow got involved with Alan, who used him to set up Ross on drug charges. He's then involved in trying to use the Dreaming Death research as a bio-weapon, (or something, I'm not revisiting that RME story to get deets...lol) and then he's Alex's henchman who comes up with a way to force the Chamberlains out of Spaulding (or at least selling their controlling interest) by making Quint and Henry think Vanessa could still face charges over the Josslyn Electronics kickbacks. He was always trying to curry Alex's favor, hoping to become  a kept man. 

There's a line in one episode where one of the "good" characters expects Vanessa to gloat over a tragedy (someone dying or losing a baby), and Vanessa says she isn't heartless. So Marland probably was going to soften her with time, as you mentioned.

I have seen the different phases of Warren while perusing those years, but none are overly convincing to me. I think the role was miscast. I think Warren Burton was mostly chosen because he had just gotten off AW, where he had also stayed for a strangely lengthy amount of time.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Rebecca Hollen (Trish) said in The Locher Room that she and Jerry were very keen on being paired, but for some reason it never really took off. It is odd that outside of that one blip where she was used to break up Alan and Hope and then was the excuse for Alan to go after Ross, she never got a major story. Even then, I think she was only put in there because she was the one female character not involved in a major story who could credibly be inserted into the Spaulding office. It was weird that Alan was ready to toss his marriage for her. She was SO much like Hope, she was even an alcoholic like Hope. Obviously, it was story tossed together very quickly to get Hope off the canvas. 

Anyway, it's a shame they never gave Hollen a strong story, especially considering how Long made the Lewises so prominent.

I wonder if Trish was written out because she was seen as too dull for the Lewises. Or if Gail Kobe was just obsessed with dumping any character she didn't create. I wonder if she would have been written out in 1983 if not for her last name.

The Lewises never have that center after she leaves - Vanessa gets that role, which is a drag on her. Rebecca Hollen was such an understated presence contrasted to how overheated that period can feel. I wish they'd seen her potential. 

October 18, 1995

Marion just changed Lucy's HIV test results to positive and it's so sad seeing everyone's reactions.  I knew this was happening, but seeing it play out is heartbreaking.  Poor Lucy has had a really rough year.  What I didn't know or expect was Susan Bates to be the one to catch onto Marion and call her out as a sketchy character.  She almost prevented Marion from changing the test results and the anger Marion had at Susan was so strong.  Susan was so boring and preachy at first, but she's turned into this billy bad-a$$, standing up to Marion. I'm surprised she's not a Marion murder victim.

I think I'm only a few episodes away from Nadine's death.  She just told Buzz that she's leaving Springfield to finally 'find herself', but she keeps having these visions of a candlestick and bloody white roses.  I'm guessing it'll happen very soon.

14 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

14 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Douglas Marland's second tenure HWing at ATWThas seemed to me to get a positive critique, not mixed. Is this just that there's always some soap fan with a complaint or is your impression really like 50/50?

Actually, his second tenure is when I think the wheels fell off. It was morose and I thought dull (GL at the time was sparking) with all of his tropes on full display...throwing in a "socially relevant" storyline does not make a show good (i.e. all the Snyder boys horning after boring Angel Lange who was raped by her dad...)If I heard one more person talk about relationship "honesty" or "therapy" .....

Carolyn Crawford put a stain on his name for me.

4 hours ago, P.J. said:

He's then involved in trying to use the Dreaming Death research as a bio-weapon, (or something, I'm not revisiting that RME story to get deets...lol)

One of Pam's huge misfires... Question for you all: What other misfires (besides firing long-standing vets, which was mostly Kobe) has Pam made as a writer? I thought she was mostly great, but there are some turkeys on rewatch. Opinions?

An overview of the major cast changes for GL beginning  1980 with  Marland's arrival.

1980

IN

Kelly

Morgan

Jennifer

Bea

Nola

Vanessa

Henry 

Joe

Derek

Tim -SORASED character from Dobson era

Andy- recast charcter from Dobson era.

OUT

Roger

Renee short term Marland charcter

And these Dobson charcters

Mark 

Greg

Ann

Peter

Elizabeth

Lucille

Holly

1981 Doug Marland headwriter

IN

Quint

Carrie

Josh

Tony

Trish

Lesley Ann

OUT

Joe

Andy

And these Dobson charcters

Diane

Ben

Rita

Barbara

Adam

Steve

Lainie

1982 Marland headwriter till September when Pat Falken Smith and the L Viginia Browm finish out the year.

IN

Mark

Maureen

Helena

Brenda/Ivy

Rebecca/Mona under Pat Falken Smith?

Phillip SORASED by L Viginia Browne

Rick SORASED By L Virginia Browne

OUT

Jackie

Carrie

  dropped by L Viginia Browne

Ivy

Sara

Tim

1983 L Virgina Browne continues as headwriter followed by Pam Long/Richard Culliton the Pam Long solo

IN under L viginia Browne 

Clay

Suzanne

Under Long/Culliton

HB

Mindy

Annabelle

Warren

Lillian

Billy

Claire

Bradley

Beth

Reva

Jim

OUT

Jennifer

Clay

Suzanne 

Morgan

Amanda

Justin

Helena

Great job @Paul Raven.

I think Renee was brought in by the Dobsons.

2 hours ago, Gatecrashers said:

One of Pam's huge misfires... Question for you all: What other misfires (besides firing long-standing vets, which was mostly Kobe) has Pam made as a writer? I thought she was mostly great, but there are some turkeys on rewatch. Opinions?

I have no inside information, but I strongly suspect that the Dreaming Death story was not entirely her fault. I can practically hear a network executive saying, "We need to compete with General Hospital, write an Ice Princess story!" Even though I loathed that story, I'm inclined to give her a break.

Bringing back Brandon from the dead for the Barbados story--ugh. Maybe if they had taken advantage of the new Spaulding family members it created it wouldn't have felt like a waste of time.

The storyline overall was not terrible, they needed a spoiler for Reva and Josh, but I hated her making Alan one of Reva's needy puppy dogs. 

The return of Roger--again, likely not her idea. It's not bad that they brought him back, but the execution of his return was awful. The silly mask, the silly accent, making him an ex-CIA spook like that redeemed him. Then there was Alan--who at this point in the story had literally NO reason to kill him (that slate had been wiped clean years before) chasing him with a gun. Had Alan ever touched a gun before this? I don't think so. I get they had decided to remove Alan from the canvas, but the whole thing was totally absurd.

6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

An overview of the major cast changes for GL beginning  1980 with  Marland's arrival

Wow, great list! 

You missed a few who were out in 1983:

Hope

Evie

Mrs. Renfield (I THINK she left in 83, but it might have been 82.)

10 hours ago, DeeVee said:

No, that happened earlier. In late 1979, the Dobsons were writing GL and were asked to switch with Marland, who was doing a stint at ATWT. He went back to ATWT a year or two after he quit GL over Jane Elliot being fired.

When Marland quit GL, he was briefly replace by Pat Falken Smith, then there were a bunch of other writers that came and went after her, and then Pam Long took over.

Thank you for clarifying hte timeline. I admit i has often been confusng to me.

 

8 hours ago, Gatecrashers said:

One of Pam's huge misfires... Question for you all: What other misfires (besides firing long-standing vets, which was mostly Kobe) has Pam made as a writer? I thought she was mostly great, but there are some turkeys on rewatch. Opinions?

Johnny Bauer's cancer, the intention of making him a faith healer, and Roxie going wacko because of it.  I also did not like that she wrote that Alex watched Ms. Sally die (no lose there but) and didnt get help to protect Alan's switching of Marah's paternity tests.

Chris

I have expended a huge amount of effort on your behalf. During the 1991 Daytime Emmys Clarence presented his interpretation of show submissions. I have captured GL's for you, 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DItklrLp37n/
1991 Daytime Emmys
reels by Clarence
GL
Blake/Alan-Micheal
Roger/Mindy ALEX!
Mallet?

I hope this helps. 

59 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Johnny Bauer's cancer, the intention of making him a faith healer, and Roxie going wacko because of it. 

How did I forget this one??? I must have blocked it from my memory. Not only terrible, incredibly irresponsible. Still can't believe the network and P&G signed off on it.

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Thank you for clarifying hte timeline. I admit i has often been confusng to me.

You're welcome. Lots of drama and upheaval behind the scenes. It's hard to keep track of it!

10 hours ago, Gatecrashers said:

One of Pam's huge misfires... Question for you all: What other misfires (besides firing long-standing vets, which was mostly Kobe) has Pam made as a writer? I thought she was mostly great, but there are some turkeys on rewatch. Opinions?

I didn't mind the Dreaming Death story since there was actual high stakes with Hilary almost dying, the gothic way Lesley Ann passed away, and it gave airtime/focus to the Cedars hospital crew.

Most of her convoluted stories did have some positives that affected the show in some way long term like the Dreaming Death story, the Tony/Annabelle cottage story, and the Largo story.  And they were umbrella stories.

For me, the biggest misfires were as follows:

-  Roxie having amnesia in Alaska story.. which introduced the Kurt character.   It didn't involve anyone outside the Lewis orbit, didn't really have any long term implications for anyone, and it just seemed stupid.

  -   Floyd being the killer of Andy Ferris, kidnapping India and being obsessed with Beth. 

And two smaller misfires: 

     -   Nolarobics  - I say this was a smaller one because it wasn't offensive, but it just screamed we have no ideas for Nola so let's get her into exercise.  The upside was that it did serve to bring characters in separate orbits together in one central location (i.e. Rick, Katie, Beth, Lillian, Nola, Annabelle, Tony, etc).

     -  Dinah/Alan Michael/Cam/Dinah - I say this was a smaller misfire because I viewed this as Long's attempt at recreating the 4 Mouseketeers magic.. but lightening sometimes doesn't strike twice.  The upside was that two out of the four characters were popular.. so it wasn't a total wash.

15 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Bernau's first exit wasn't until 1983. I don't know if that was because of his illness. It was probably the end of his second 3 year contract so he might have just wanted to take a break.

I think he left the first time in spring of 1984 (I believe it was April or May).. and it was a shame he left because he and Beverlee had great antagonistic chemistry as brother/sister.. and their rapport was just getting explored when he left the canvas.

16 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That period seemed so averse to sex appeal. I was watching Trish's last scene yesterday (Vanessa is so sad, it breaks your heart a little), and Ross gives Trish a very passionate, tender goodbye kiss. I was reminded that Ross often was a passionate man. I assume the idea was that this Carrie was meant to be more cute than sexy because one of the Carrie alters represented her sexuality, but I do think that the Ross we knew would not have been so happy with just '40s style banter.

(Vanessa/Justin could have made for a strong pairing, as Vanessa isn't far off early Jackie)

I so agree about Diane. I do hope it was Sofia's choice to leave. If not, what a mistake. She is so compelling to watch and has so many layers even though on paper she should have been as much of a plot device as early Vanessa often was.

1) I think Jerry V said in one of the Locher Room interviews that he wore the dunce/idiot cap twice... one during his marriage to Carrie and during the Blake and the dual father twin story caper.  I was surprised that Ross was devoid of any sex appeal during the Marland era because he seemed to have it in spades during the Pam Long/Nancy Curlee era circa 1984-1993

2) Diane was very sexual and was a feminist in her own right during the Dobson era.... sadly even her confident sexual aura was watered down during the Marland era.  Why she couldn't have been sent to prison in 1981.. I'll never understand.

 

8 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Bringing back Brandon from the dead for the Barbados story--ugh. Maybe if they had taken advantage of the new Spaulding family members it created it wouldn't have felt like a waste of time.

Pam Long and Jeff Ryder intended for the new Spaulding family members to have a much bigger role on the canvas beyond their introduction.  However, P&G nixed their plans, because they were skittish about the Spauldings having African-American relatives.