38 minutes ago, P.J. said:

OMG...bless her heart, but as I've become distinctly aware of since posting to the thread, 1983 viewers probably felt the same way about Kobe?Long's cast purge. Which of course, led to La Zimmer's hiring.

Now, that gamble paid off in ways Wheeler's wasn't going to, but c'mon here, Kim.

LOL! Yes, I have written a blog on Kim's book, a review, and I would not put much stock in this particular paragraph. She doesn't do a very good job describing actors being moved from contract to recurring nor does she explain the pay cut or why these things had to happen. I have to laugh. Wheeler, like anyone, wanted to do the best she could with what she had to work with &  in the circumstances she inherited. White knight? Getting rid of vets? Presumed preference for younger actors? GMAB. Not what was going on. Where is the word budget or Procter & Gamble too cheap to pay an experienced EP? Or dissolving MADD's exec position? Wonder why Kim doesn't mention any of these things. 

51 minutes ago, Franko said:

A few months later, GH ended their 30th anniversary episode with John Beradino walking with dignity off the set and onto the soundstage. I suspect that was meant as a classy rebuttal to SB's finale. And now I wonder if GL got to give its own response.

I never knew that. Of course, that was GH sending a message.

6 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Jerry ver Dorn, Marj Dusay, and Michael O'Leary were all dropped to recurring under Wheeler in September, 2005, along with the complete dismissal of Paul Anthony Stewart, Nancy St. Alban, and David Andrew MacDonald after St. Alban returned from her maternity leave, which the show had extended. Laura Wright and Daniel Cosgrove both jumped ship at that point with Wright immediately joining "General Hospital" as Carly. 

GH wanted Laura a whole 6 months before she could get free. The 3rd of 4 Carlys was hired & worked for that 6 months. LW was first "The role of Carly (whatever her last name was then) is now being played by Laura Wright" in early Nov. 2005. Was that when the show got rid of Danny & Michelle because they were sick of the fanbase wars over which Michelle?

6 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Zimmer is a bit audacious to complain about Wheeler though because this was when she refused to take a pay cut. Zimmer's point was valid; reopening a contract was a dangerous precedent to set at any show. As a result though, some of those people left, I believe. 

And KZ was the only person to refuse that pay cut.

6 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Wheeler should have dumped Bradley Cole the minute his contract was up. It was rumored Conboy had brought him back with clause that required the show to pay out his contract if they terminated him before it's natural end. 

I never knew Cole had one of those pay or play contracts. Jim Reilly had one. RKK had one. 

7 hours ago, Franko said:

Twenty-five years ago this week. (It took me a moment to recognize PAS.)

 

As someone who liked the Santos clan (and can admit they did eat the show), the stories for Tony/Danny were repetitive. Theresa and Catalina were literally the same character. Same with Carmen and Maria. 

I don't know if it was ever said why the show wanted to get rid of Danny and Michelle, but I imagine part of it was that they were creatively stifling. The Manny crew wouldn't let anyone or anything come between them. I remember SOD reporting, or maybe it was just gossip on another board like GLBuzz or Spaulding Mansion (maybe those were the same forum, I cannot recall) that they were extending Nancy St. Alban's maternity leave. I think Alban's first episode back (or one of the first) was Michelle's September, 2005, car crash where Edmund stole Michelle's baby and gave it to Cassie. This also was the first episode of the GL podcast that they were posting online. Does anyone remember how long they did the podcast episodes for? 

During Wheeler's time, I believe Danny and Michelle were mostly apart. Wheeler arrived around March Madness and the mayor story was about to climax in April, which shifted Danny back into the mob circle for "one last time." In May, Danny was involved in setting up the warehouse bombing that was going to "kill" Eden so that she could go into Witness Protection, but Michelle trailed Danny and was caught up on the explosion. As a result, Michelle had amnesia and embraced a wilder side, which mostly meant she would say what she wanted and acted like she was a teenager. ScrambledMichelle ended up with Tony until Tony died on the cliff in February or March, 2005. Then, Michelle was pregnant and something must have happened that caused her to go on the run in August (Bill helped her, as I recall) and then there was the baby kidnapping. 

I tend to not hate Conboy as much as others do, but the Bradley Cole situation showed he was out of touch with the modern soap audience. I remember Conboy stating in an interview how he didn't know why Cole had been fired when he was getting tons of mail asking for him back. He seemed unaware of the modern internet soap fanbased who mobilized to mislead production into thinking their couple was the key to the show's success. The fact that none of the NYC soaps picked him up afterwards should have been a hint. AMC gave him a dayplayer role as someone involved in the cosmetics storyline and I think the Rassies even tried to get him hired permanently over there and possibly paired with Erica Kane. 

4 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

As someone who liked the Santos clan (and can admit they did eat the show), the stories for Tony/Danny were repetitive. Theresa and Catalina were literally the same character. Same with Carmen and Maria. 

Wait ... Carmen, Sandra Santiago, right? And, Maria was their abuela? If so, I respectfully disagree. To me their abuela was very different from the character Santiago played. That said, I  was not at all a fan of the Santos family & their show eating. Also Tony & Marah were a very different couple than Michelle & Danny. 

6 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Wait ... Carmen, Sandra Santiago, right? And, Maria was their abuela? If so, I respectfully disagree. To me their abuela was very different from the character Santiago played. That said, I  was not at all a fan of the Santos family & their show eating. Also Tony & Marah were a very different couple than Michelle & Danny. 

To me, Carmen and Maria were literally the same character. Both of them were dastardly and only served as spoilers to Tony/Marah and Danny/Michelle. The only difference is that Maria grew to loathe her puppet (Catalina). 

3 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

I don't know if it was ever said why the show wanted to get rid of Danny and Michelle, but I imagine part of it was that they were creatively stifling. The Manny crew wouldn't let anyone or anything come between them. I remember SOD reporting, or maybe it was just gossip on another board like GLBuzz or Spaulding Mansion (maybe those were the same forum, I cannot recall) that they were extending Nancy St. Alban's maternity leave. I think Alban's first episode back (or one of the first) was Michelle's September, 2005, car crash where Edmund stole Michelle's baby and gave it to Cassie. This also was the first episode of the GL podcast that they were posting online. Does anyone remember how long they did the podcast episodes for? 

During Wheeler's time, I believe Danny and Michelle were mostly apart. Wheeler arrived around March Madness and the mayor story was about to climax in April, which shifted Danny back into the mob circle for "one last time." In May, Danny was involved in setting up the warehouse bombing that was going to "kill" Eden so that she could go into Witness Protection, but Michelle trailed Danny and was caught up on the explosion. As a result, Michelle had amnesia and embraced a wilder side, which mostly meant she would say what she wanted and acted like she was a teenager. ScrambledMichelle ended up with Tony until Tony died on the cliff in February or March, 2005. Then, Michelle was pregnant and something must have happened that caused her to go on the run in August (Bill helped her, as I recall) and then there was the baby kidnapping. 

I tend to not hate Conboy as much as others do, but the Bradley Cole situation showed he was out of touch with the modern soap audience. I remember Conboy stating in an interview how he didn't know why Cole had been fired when he was getting tons of mail asking for him back. He seemed unaware of the modern internet soap fanbased who mobilized to mislead production into thinking their couple was the key to the show's success. The fact that none of the NYC soaps picked him up afterwards should have been a hint. AMC gave him a dayplayer role as someone involved in the cosmetics storyline and I think the Rassies even tried to get him hired permanently over there and possibly paired with Erica Kane. 

Okay, well, it definitely was known in some quarters at least that the show did take Michelle & Danny off canvas specifically because of idiotic fanbase wars. No, the notorious Buzz Board was pervasively warlike. Arrive there, express any opinion & immediately someone called you out for warfare. Civil posters avoided it. Spaulding Mansion was neutral. Sure, some fought. Most did not. I detested ConWest. Yes, he was obtuse & out of touch while she was inept. Don't even get me started on Marty West, baseball diamond, running off Aubrey Dollar or the dreaded sock puppet!!! LOL Oh, and CCulliton & whoever else did a year's tenure as co-HW were saints! Podcast I think was 4-6 months, maybe. 

48 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

Maureen Garrett, Liz Kiefer, Yvonna Kopacz, and Beth Chamberlain were all dropped under John Conboy about August, 2003. Garrett was the least used of the lot as I recall, but Kopacz had her baby so Mel may have appeared even less. After August, I think Garrett appeared twice (Ross and Blake's Christmas 2003 wedding and February, 2004, in a scene with Ed telling him she'd be there for him if he needed her to be). 

If I remember correctly, Chamberlain was offered a contract again under Wheeler (possibly more than once), but she elected to stay off contract because she made more money per episode and she wanted to be able to accept another NY soap job. I think she was interested in the Paige Miller recast on "One Life to Live" that ultimately went to Diane Neil. I believe Valenti was more interested in trying to swipe Crystal Chappell for the role, but Wheeler wouldn't let Chappell out of her contract. 

Garrett returned under Wheeler in September, 2004, on a more regular recurring basis for Roger's demise and Sebastian's arrival. She was used with some consistency until May, 2005, when the budget crunch came in. Her final scenes were part of a set up of a Spaulding takeover storyline where Blake, Sebastian, and Josh were teaming up to infilitrate Spaulding at the moment Holly agreed to sell a piece (or all) of the Journal to Alan in exchange for some of Spaulding Enterprises. 

Jerry ver Dorn, Marj Dusay, and Michael O'Leary were all dropped to recurring under Wheeler in September, 2005, along with the complete dismissal of Paul Anthony Stewart, Nancy St. Alban, and David Andrew MacDonald after St. Alban returned from her maternity leave, which the show had extended. Laura Wright and Daniel Cosgrove both jumped ship at that point with Wright immediately joining "General Hospital" as Carly. 

Zimmer is a bit audacious to complain about Wheeler though because this was when she refused to take a pay cut. Zimmer's point was valid; reopening a contract was a dangerous precedent to set at any show. As a result though, some of those people left, I believe. 

Wheeler should have dumped Bradley Cole the minute his contract was up. It was rumored Conboy had brought him back with clause that required the show to pay out his contract if they terminated him before it's natural end. 

Thanks for the extra details. I definitely remember Holly vanishing long before Wheeler. Looking at this list, other than Jerry, I don't really disagree with most of the cuts...but yes, not using Jerry more was a big mistake, both for her and Conboy.

I still wonder if it was some P&G mandate about Bradley Cole, but who knows, maybe Wheeler adored him. I'm not sure if it was his choice to leave partway through GL's last year or not.

Smart move to not let Crystal go.

I can see Beth doing OK in that OLTL part, even if that role was a bottomless pit. I wouldn't have missed Beth Raines. And then as Paige was going nowhere fast, they could have always brought Beth C back anyway.

41 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

To me, Carmen and Maria were literally the same character. Both of them were dastardly and only served as spoilers to Tony/Marah and Danny/Michelle. The only difference is that Maria grew to loathe her puppet (Catalina). 

I thought Maria was more interesting because she started out as softer until the Labines made her so wicked, and frankly, the actress was just better. But they didn't do anything interesting with this shift, and the Santos overstayed their welcome by much too long. Danny was the main one worth keeping, but as mentioned, him constantly needing to go back to Michelle suffocated him, even as PAS was one of the show's best.

It amazes me how TIIC keep running into the same problem with stannish fanbases that they can't risk pissing off over the last 15 years (or so) of the show. Whether it's Matt/Vanessa, Danny/Michelle, Richard/Cassie or Gus/Harley.

If you can't create friction, of course you're creatively stifled. Even with Josh/Reva, they ended back up together, but at least they hadn't always been afraid of breaking them up.

17 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks for the extra details. I definitely remember Holly vanishing long before Wheeler. Looking at this list, other than Jerry, I don't really disagree with most of the cuts...but yes, not using Jerry more was a big mistake, both for her and Conboy.

I still wonder if it was some P&G mandate about Bradley Cole, but who knows, maybe Wheeler adored him. I'm not sure if it was his choice to leave partway through GL's last year or not.

No, he was not special to EW. 

17 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Smart move to not let Crystal go.

Agree!

17 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I thought Maria was more interesting because she started out as softer until the Labines made her so wicked, and frankly, the actress was just better. But they didn't do anything interesting with this shift, and the Santos overstayed their welcome by much too long. Danny was the main one worth keeping, but as mentioned, him constantly needing to go back to Michelle suffocated him, even as PAS was one of the show's best.

Maria had warmth. Carmen was cold as ice. Both women coveted power. Agree long overstayed. But, personally I had no trouble with Danny & Michelle. Agree PAS strong player. In my personal reboot he is discovered to be a long lost Bauer. 

 

2 minutes ago, P.J. said:

It amazes me how TIIC keep running into the same problem with stannish fanbases that they can't risk pissing off over the last 15 years (or so) of the show. Whether it's Matt/Vanessa, Danny/Michelle, Richard/Cassie or Gus/Harley.

If you can't create friction, of course you're creatively stifled. Even with Josh/Reva, they ended back up together, but at least they hadn't always been afraid of breaking them up.

INDEED!

37 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks for the extra details. I definitely remember Holly vanishing long before Wheeler. Looking at this list, other than Jerry, I don't really disagree with most of the cuts...but yes, not using Jerry more was a big mistake, both for her and Conboy.

I still wonder if it was some P&G mandate about Bradley Cole, but who knows, maybe Wheeler adored him. I'm not sure if it was his choice to leave partway through GL's last year or not.

Smart move to not let Crystal go.

I can see Beth doing OK in that OLTL part, even if that role was a bottomless pit. I wouldn't have missed Beth Raines. And then as Paige was going nowhere fast, they could have always brought Beth C back anyway.

I thought Maria was more interesting because she started out as softer until the Labines made her so wicked, and frankly, the actress was just better. But they didn't do anything interesting with this shift, and the Santos overstayed their welcome by much too long. Danny was the main one worth keeping, but as mentioned, him constantly needing to go back to Michelle suffocated him, even as PAS was one of the show's best.

The brief period where Wheeler was EPing from the material credited to Weston had some very nice material for ver Dorn. I remember Joey Lupo commenting directly to Ross during the election story (probably late March/early April, 2004) how well he was handling or had handled Marah's murder charges when she was accused of killing Maryanne Carrouthers. Ver Dorn had Ross reflect on the power of his role in the community and the potential loss that would come if he were mayor. In the end, Ross won (after losing, of course, because it was rigged). When Kriezman came on, I felt the Ross / Blake tension felt forced even though the nature of the conflict was natural (Dinah's return after being on the run for years after killing Blake's half-brother Hart). At times, Kriezman's work felt so stripped down that even character moments felt like they were pure plot. 

I loved Olivia, but by this point in time, early 2006, the best days of Olivia were over. Cosgrove was gone. Alexander was gone and had no interest in returning. If it could have spared viewers the Olivia / Frank / Buzz triangle and the Olivia / Jeffrey and was there also Olivia / Gus, I would have been ok. 

From when I started watching, I felt Chamberlain did her best work in those non-contract years where she could focus on how optimistic Beth struggled to be after being harmed for many years by the harsh realities of living. I didn't miss the Paul Raunch Beth Raines years, that's for sure. 

Wow. I had completely forgot about Gloria Irizarry's warmer Maria. She definitely provided an interesting dynamic. Based on the Soap Central summaries, Maria became harder under Irizarry, but I can't remember if her Maria was cold and calculating or was it just Miriam Colon's.

16 minutes ago, P.J. said:

It amazes me how TIIC keep running into the same problem with stannish fanbases that they can't risk pissing off over the last 15 years (or so) of the show. Whether it's Matt/Vanessa, Danny/Michelle, Richard/Cassie or Gus/Harley.

If you can't create friction, of course you're creatively stifled. Even with Josh/Reva, they ended back up together, but at least they hadn't always been afraid of breaking them up.

I think the setup for late 2004 / early 2005 for Danny / Michelle was interesting when it looked like that they might go with Danny / Blake on the eve of Ed's return while Beth and Rick were also growing closer and Michelle was still running around with Sebastian. I thought having Ed's son involved with Lillian's daughter in an extra marital affair, while his son-in-law was involved with Holly's daughter who he believed to be his at one time, while his daughter was growing closer to Roger's son could have produced a lot of powerful material. 

12 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

The brief period where Wheeler was EPing from the material credited to Weston had some very nice material for ver Dorn. I remember Joey Lupo commenting directly to Ross during the election story (probably late March/early April, 2004) how well he was handling or had handled Marah's murder charges when she was accused of killing Maryanne Carrouthers. Ver Dorn had Ross reflect on the power of his role in the community and the potential loss that would come if he were mayor. In the end, Ross won (after losing, of course, because it was rigged). When Kriezman came on, I felt the Ross / Blake tension felt forced even though the nature of the conflict was natural (Dinah's return after being on the run for years after killing Blake's half-brother Hart). At times, Kriezman's work felt so stripped down that even character moments felt like they were pure plot. 

I loved Olivia, but by this point in time, early 2006, the best days of Olivia were over. Cosgrove was gone. Alexander was gone and had no interest in returning. If it could have spared viewers the Olivia / Frank / Buzz triangle and the Olivia / Jeffrey and was there also Olivia / Gus, I would have been ok. 

I actually enjoyed Olivia/Buzz. They were fun & sexy. But, with Jeffrey. oh no. 

12 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

From when I started watching, I felt Chamberlain did her best work in those non-contract years where she could focus on how optimistic Beth struggled to be after being harmed for many years by the harsh realities of living. I didn't miss the Paul Raunch Beth Raines years, that's for sure. 

Here, agree. Also when she got serious about working out.

12 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

Wow. I had completely forgot about Gloria Irizarry's warmer Maria. She definitely provided an interesting dynamic. Based on the Soap Central summaries, Maria became harder under Irizarry, but I can't remember if her Maria was cold and calculating or was it just Miriam Colon's.

I tried to tell y'all. 

12 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

I think the setup for late 2004 / early 2005 for Danny / Michelle was interesting when it looked like that they might go with Danny / Blake on the eve of Ed's return while Beth and Rick were also growing closer and Michelle was still running around with Sebastian. I thought having Ed's son involved with Lillian's daughter in an extra marital affair, while his son-in-law was involved with Holly's daughter who he believed to be his at one time, while his daughter was growing closer to Roger's son could have produced a lot of powerful material. 

This is too convoluted. 

 

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

 

I think the setup for late 2004 / early 2005 for Danny / Michelle was interesting when it looked like that they might go with Danny / Blake on the eve of Ed's return while Beth and Rick were also growing closer and Michelle was still running around with Sebastian. I thought having Ed's son involved with Lillian's daughter in an extra marital affair, while his son-in-law was involved with Holly's daughter who he believed to be his at one time, while his daughter was growing closer to Roger's son could have produced a lot of powerful material. 

I'm consistently amazed when I get reminded that GL stuck with the bland St Alban for as long as they did. I had checked out of GL by this time, and have zero recollection of any of this.

17 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Hello, all! I’m new here, but not to GL.

I agree with many here that GL really started to tank in 1994; I’m here with the ideas for a redo of 1994.  Frankly, my ideas are better than what the writers and JFP came up with at that time.  How could they not be?  Sheesh.

I’d start in March 1994, roughly at the apex of the Vanessa/Bridget/Peter custody trail. GL tanks rapidly afterwards.   I’m splitting this into three sections/posts for easier reading.

A quick aside….I do need to mention that Reva is never reintroduced, nor is Mike Bauer. Can't strand either one.  People here have spoken about Ed’s sanctimonious @ss.  I agree, but Ed doesn’t hold a candle to Mike’s sanctimony.  Mike Bauer is a jerk (there, I said it). BTW, Buzz has an unexpected fit of PTSD, waves a gun around and accidentally shoots daughter Lucy in the head.  She dies.  Buzz is carted off and is not seen again.

See?  Told you my ideas would be better - LOL.

During 1994, four new contract characters are introduced.  Of those, two were known about previously and two are brand new characters.

Not my sweet Lucy!!!    Welcome - and great ideas! 

13 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

What does Justin Deas have to do with Phelps & her focus group? What do you mean here? This is news to me if he had any part in it. And, if so, I certainly want to learn what it was. 

It was pretty much confirmed in the Locher room episode on Mo's death, when Parker said, "I think Jill had to free up money for Justin,".  The focus group we know was just an excuse for JfP to dump Parker to bring in her beloved scenery chewer..(of course viewers who didn't even watch GL thought her character was boring, there was no context...) 

I do love whomever came up with the idea up thread of having Buzz PTS come back and shoot Lucy in the head (would it matter, the bullet would pass through air) That is one hell of a dark way to go!!! I just thought that they should have used Jenna to write Buzz off..they reunite they fight Jefferey then they leave town happy. Simple.