13 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

It's funny, the sitcom Soap, which was a parody of soap operas, had an ending like that, too. The heroine Jessica was facing a firing squad and you heard shots fired, the end. And that was a comedy. They weren't given much notice they were being canceled so they just said screw it and ended it on the season cliff hanger they were planning. (Everyone adored Jessica, though, so no one was celebrating, LOL).

As someone who has watched telenovelas for eons, I don't mind giving stories an ending. My problem is having characters who lived through years of toxicity being the symbol of hope and happily ever after.

I felt the same about Sex and the City, I felt the same about Friends. I totally LOATHED those endings. It was enough that Carrie broke up with the Russian and went back to her true loves, her friends. It was enough that Monica and Chandler finally got their kids and the group as a whole was moving on to the next stage of adulthood.

I feel the same about the Four Musketeers reunion and the implication they would all get together with their erstwhile partners. 25 years (more in soap years) and you couldn't get it together before this? Come on. This might upset a few people here, but I feel the same about Vanessa and Billy getting married, too.

You didn't need weddings. You didn't need to pair up everyone. Good grief, they even paired up Blake and Frank. WHY? WHO CARES?

Alan's death could have brought everyone together to talk about the past and remember the highlights of the show's history. While leaving most things open-ended. It would have been enough. Better than that sappy drive past the lighthouse. Because you knew Josh and Reva would get divorced again. Just like I'm certain somewhere in sitcomland Ross and Rachel are divorced.

I get it-they did this with Gossip Girl where they tried to spend over a season showing why both Chuck/Blair and Dan/Serena were toxic only to turn it around suddenly to go into the final season to make sure you know well into future they’re married.

I wasn’t so much saying there’s something wrong with an ending so much as having to have resolution on all potential romantic pairings-it just goes counter to what has come before.

10 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Yes, Reva was always looking for what she could get from a guy. What he could do for her. Vanessa used to chide Alan about it all the time. She had Reva's number.

I don't think it was always about money for her (though it DID help). Stability is a good way of putting it, though in the end she never seemed to find it.

That's the kind of pandering shows frequently do at the end. Doesn't matter how toxic the relationship, they're convinced (and they're not entirely wrong) that the audience craves a happily ever after.

Maybe validation is a better descriptor. Josh (for better or not) was the only one who ever seemed to have the ability to convince her she wasn't that poor little housekeeper's daughter who would always be on the outside looking in.

I know shows that are ending (if they know they are) want to tie things up in neat little bows. (I was ecstatic when Harvey and Donna ended up together on Suits, and goodness knows I wouldn't have given crap one about who ended up together on GL aside from Billy and Van.) But the last few years of Reva and Bud were so off-putting to me, it just really felt false.

28 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

This might upset a few people here, but I feel the same about Vanessa and Billy getting married, too.

*crushed* But I totally understand about say Frank/Blake, Dinah/Mallet, or Shayne/Marina. Wheeler probably would've preferred to marry off Olivia/Natalia. Or maybe saved Bill/Lizzie for the end.

I will ask this in a safe space. I'm watching BTG. Has Jordi V's face always been that huge? I can't explain it, it just looks strangely to me.

I picked back up my late March/April 1993 viewing fully into Buzz's return. Having seen some of Lucy's first appearances I find it amusing that they each arrived with terrible, yet completely different, accents. This reveal of Buzz as Harley/Frank's dad and not Nadine's cousin is dragging on far too long. I am also amused by how Harley has already had about a dozen disobeying authority plots as a cop in the year or so she has officially been a cop. Of course Frank goes rogue too almost immediately when he joins the force so it's a family trait.

Finally up to Crazy Eve beginning which is infinitely more interesting than Sane Girlfriend Eve.

I am also pretty surprised at how long Nadine was able to keep up this farce of being Peter's mom. She is balancing quite the web of lies between "Randy" (Buzz) and pretending Bridget is just the nanny.

I don't even know what I want, but this Roger/Jenna Spaulding takeover is weirdly just a bunch of client poaching between Lewis and Spaulding and not a lot of fun. It coming in the immediate aftermath of Maureen's death with no Alex on the scene just makes it so there's really no true adversary for Roger to lord this over at this point. AM and I guess Henry are about as close as it gets, but AM is such a sad sack between the divorce and having only Nick as Spaulding family that there's not much fun in Roger lording anything over someone who never had power in the first place. Vanessa just moving back to Lewis Oil and Henry hanging out with her just makes this thing feel so low stakes right now, though I actually like the scrappy upstart Journal stuff as I think Rick Hearst/VI are both talented enough actors that they play the push/pull of AM/Nick well and have a good chemistry.

Ann Hamilton as Mindy is slowly getting better as someone said would happen, but the Hart whose name I refuse to learn is such a nonentity. Then pitting him against Dylan is like some sort of no-charisma experiment. I like Dylan as nice guy sounding board but whenever he is trying to be angry about something he always comes off like an eighth grader.

Randy? Rex.

Have you watched Roger losing the Towers in '90? I think that would make it clear that Billy is a big threat where Roger's concerned.

What kills me about this period is I think there's an episode missing. After Van/AM/Henry lose Spaulding, she goes to Billy and wants him to hire her. It seems like the next episode should pick up with her talking him into it. But I think the next one I found was her showing up at Lewis and trying to nail a deal.

I think it probably feels like a weird transition because it had to be reworked when Bev left. I'd love to find out what was originally planned. 'Cause Alex losing Spaulding would've been all kinds of wrong.

Actually, I think Leonard Stabb was a good Hart. And that's what Roger's son should have been---one part [!@#$%^&*], one part idealist and his own worst enemy, determined not to be his father, but finding himself sliding into it anyway.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by P.J.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

I will ask this in a safe space. I'm watching BTG. Has Jordi V's face always been that huge? I can't explain it, it just looks strangely to me.

LOL - I know what you're talking about. I didn't notice it seeming larger than what I was accustomed to on AMC, but I get it haha. It does feel like he's had work done or at least regular botox or something.

7 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Randy? Rex.

Have you watched Roger losing the Towers in '90? I think that would make it clear that Billy is a big threat where Roger's concerned.

What kills me about this period is I think there's an episode missing. After Van/AM/Henry lose Spaulding, she goes to Billy and wants him to hire her. It seems like the next episode should pick up with her talking him into it. But I think the next one I found was her showing up at Lewis and trying to nail a deal.

I think it probably feels like a weird transition because it had to be reworked when Bev left. I'd love to find out what was originally planned. 'Cause Alex losing Spaulding would've been all kinds of wrong.

Actually, I think Leonard Stabb was a good Hart. And that's what Roger's son should have been---one part [!@#$%^&*], one part idealist and his own worst enemy, determined not to be his father, but finding himself sliding into it anyway.

I’m probably blaming the acting for Hart on the writing currently being a bit stagnant currently as right now he’s just kind of existing as a Lewis hanger on human Chekhov’s gun where Peter is concerned.

I started this viewing sometime shortly after the Towers deal as people were still referencing it a lot where Roger’s’ business dealing were concerned. I just randomly picked just before Rick Hearst’s debut in June 1990 when AM emerges from his kidnapping as literally a new man. It was a wild weak to start since Reva drove off the bridge not long after that and Phillip was beginning to plot his “death” so things were humming.

9 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

LOL - I know what you're talking about. I didn't notice it seeming larger than what I was accustomed to on AMC, but I get it haha. It does feel like he's had work done or at least regular botox or something.

Maybe it's just the difference between being younger/clean shaven and older/stubble. He looks like he's had a jaw transplant. lol

5 minutes ago, GL95 said:

I’m probably blaming the acting for Hart on the writing currently being a bit stagnant currently as right now he’s just kind of existing as a Lewis hanger on human Chekhov’s gun where Peter is concerned.

I started this viewing sometime shortly after the Towers deal as people were still referencing it a lot where Roger’s’ business dealing were concerned. I just randomly picked just before Rick Hearst’s debut in June 1990 when AM emerges from his kidnapping as literally a new man. It was a wild weak to start since Reva drove off the bridge not long after that and Phillip was beginning to plot his “death” so things were humming.

I'm not even sure how long Leonard was in the role before his accident. Didn't someone say Moniz's entrance was delayed while they recast the role?

Okay--yeah, you've missed all the Billy/Roger drama.

39 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Randy? Rex.

Have you watched Roger losing the Towers in '90? I think that would make it clear that Billy is a big threat where Roger's concerned.

What kills me about this period is I think there's an episode missing. After Van/AM/Henry lose Spaulding, she goes to Billy and wants him to hire her. It seems like the next episode should pick up with her talking him into it. But I think the next one I found was her showing up at Lewis and trying to nail a deal.

I think it probably feels like a weird transition because it had to be reworked when Bev left. I'd love to find out what was originally planned. 'Cause Alex losing Spaulding would've been all kinds of wrong.

Actually, I think Leonard Stabb was a good Hart. And that's what Roger's son should have been---one part [!@#$%^&*], one part idealist and his own worst enemy, determined not to be his father, but finding himself sliding into it anyway.

It’s my hill I’m dying on that Roger’s recruitment of AM wasn’t initially intended as a red herring (Bloss not being a fling likely messed with this as well)-I could see the plan having been to give Nick the keys to the kingdom too soon and AM/Roger leading the takeover as Van goes to Lewis Oil. If the same Nick/Mindy stuff happened there would be a natural Lewis Oil rivalry initially when Nick takes over.

The stage I’m at now is a bit funny with Nick having zero desire to be involved with the business side of the Journal knowing he does a full 180 on running Spaulding down the road.

48 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Maybe it's just the difference between being younger/clean shaven and older/stubble. He looks like he's had a jaw transplant. lol

Oh definitely, or at least chiseling it seems.

@GL95 I could see Alex having to reluctantly take Jenna into the company, and either Jenna forcing Vanessa out (in retaliation for Henry's lie) or Van ditching Spaulding rather than take orders from a Roger-influenced Jenna.

For me, it's nice to see Billy and Van working together.

LOL...all Spauldings get corrupted by the power of Spaulding.

12 minutes ago, P.J. said:

@GL95 I could see Alex having to reluctantly take Jenna into the company, and either Jenna forcing Vanessa out (in retaliation for Henry's lie) or Van ditching Spaulding rather than take orders from a Roger-influenced Jenna.

For me, it's nice to see Billy and Van working together.

LOL...all Spauldings get corrupted by the power of Spaulding.

The writing for Nick on the Spaulding front is just always pretty hilariously all over the map, but almost always designed to mess with AM basically. He’s either disinterested and telling AM how silly he is to care about power/money/legacy then the second AM is halfway lured into believing him Nick changes his mind and is all about that Spaulding life.

I do think it’s funny that Jenna is pretty meh about running things-being put in charge of Spaulding is basically the easiest thing for those who don’t want it but very hard for those who do haha

Edited 2 minutes ago2 min by GL95