Guiding Light discussion thread

[Dan]

Your timing is correct. And I absolutely agree on the point that the Taggert/Gold regime basically blundered into the fall. Yes there was some improvement but it really wasn't until Culliton got there when things really started to focus. But that's generally Carolyn Culliton's reputation of really giving a show some polish it wouldn't have otherwise. Hell, between her, Stephen Demorest, and Hal Corley would Hogan Sheffer's first year at ATWT be as memorable? Probably not based on the rest of Sheffer's career. 

One thing I really appreciated at the time was the show seemed to bring back those scenes between friends (or former friends) that didn't really move the plot but just seemed like organic story building. The kind that this show was absolutely the best at doing. I remember a wonderful sequence of scenes with Beth and Olivia at a skating rink just talking about the couple intrigue in their lives. It didn't move plot in the slightest, but it was an insightful conversation between 2 former friends. 

Don't get me wrong, even at that time, the show still had it's problems both in characters and plot, but it really felt that it could have been a springboard moment for the show if someone cared enough to see it through. It's the last time for me, being really too young to enjoy the Curlee tenure, that the show felt like the show I loved. 

 

[dc11786]

I agree and disagree regarding the Reva stalker story. Reva was recently released from prison for turning off Richard's life support because Richard's living will had been discovered back in October/November. I want to say Cassie (or was it Edmund?) who found it and there seemed to be a question whether or not they would use it to free Reva. While the living will exonerated Reva legally, she still had to deal with the lingering ill will attached to her decision. Per her normal modus operandi, Reva had acted impulsively in a situation, which ultimately hurt others. Cassie, Tammy, and Edmund all had the right to be angry with her. Marah told her off a couple times, but I believe they had reconcilled by then. 

I don't remember why Holly was suspected other than she was connected to Reva and she had been unhinged during the Nursery Rhyme Stalker plot (which was also referenced in this time frame as Ed babysat Robbie while Michelle and Bill went out on a date, and Michelle expressed concern about Ed allowing Holly to be around Robbie). Holly may, and this may completely be wrong, have been suspected because Reva had "abandoned" Jonathan, which may have been how they were working Jonathan back in. 

Ultimately, it is how they introduced Jonathan when he was came back to Springfield to seek revenge against Reva and Sandy.

Maybe @Dan or someone else would remember better. I know John Conboy hired Scott Bailey because both Bailey and Marty West auditioned for the same role (I feel like it was Jonathan). West was given a contract as Shayne Lewis, but the previous actor, Billy Kay, had been on recurring. I don't know if Kay was offered a contract, but the general consensus was a) he wasn't conventionally attractive enough for Conboy and b) he was developing some minor street cred with indie film work (he had recently appeared as a teenage hustler in "L.I.E."). I think Bailey was originally hired as Jonathan Baynes, the stalker and Reva's son. Then, Conboy and Weston changed their minds so they kept him as the voice on the radio. I actually think he had ANOTHER name before Sandy Foster in the credits, but that was something I am just recalling now. 

When he first appeared in the summer (I want to say August/September at some sort of protest), I don't think they had figured out yet what they were going to do with him. He was definitely presented as a love interest for Marah, but it was mostly on Marah's side. So it was left ambigious whether or not Sandy would actually be Jonathan until Reva caught him stealing from the Lewis safe and Sandy revealed who he was. 

I'm trying to remember, did Marah play much with Stephen Martines/Colton Scott's Tony? I remember that change occured around the same time. I feel like September 2003 was a big change month. Eden and Tony were recast. Nico was introduced. There was that brief Spaulding missing intern story with Michael Swan (and later Mark Pinter) and Linda Cook as the young woman's mother. 

lol The puppet appeared like one time. I remember it was "Sandy and the Mole." I don't even know if I saw the episode that puppet was in. 

God I loved Scott Bailey. He was by no means a great actor, but as a closeted teen I definitely found my type, attractive socially awkward guys. 

I loved the MyNetworkTV novelas. They were (are?) on Tubi or at least a couple of them are. It's funny. Annalynn McCord who is popping up on another show soon (I won't say for spoiler reason) was in the vignettes that were filmed for one of the unproduced novelas, "Rules of Engagement." Dylan Bruce was the male lead in the filmed scenes. It was set to begin filming when the novela projects were scrapped, but I don't remember if Bruce or McCord were still attached.  

The shippers were bad. I remember thinking Claire Labine was killing the San Cristobal setting with the tea cup story that led to the revelation that Richard wasn't the legitimate son of King George (or whoever) and was the son by his mistress. Instead, they ended up holding elections. Ugh! At least Michelle was a Bauer and it kept her front and center, but ultimately I'm not sure if that was a good thing. By the time GusH took over, I was one foot out the door so I don't remember their nonsense. 

I liked Gus and Harley's aborted wedding, but, yes, I can see how that was really the mark where it was leaning into a very black and white view of the Coopers and the Spauldings which I don't think did anyone any favors. 

Culliton definitely seemed like the missing piece. I think the Conboy produced episodes definitely showed the potential if the writers wrote and Conboy was kept out of the writers office. 

I will say I like those type of scenes or playing minor story beats that don't contribute to the overall story but provide a moment for self reflection (the above mentioned Michelle fears Holly around Robbie). I remember that seem to happen a lot in early Wheeler as well. There was a rather nice moment between Alexandra and Phillip at Spaulding Enterprises about May, 2004, when Alexandra just reflected upon how lonely her life had become. There was also a nice moment where Billy gave Little Bill a piece of jewelry belonging to Billy's great grandmother (or some other relation) who was Native American as they were building up to Eden and Bill's (non)-wedding. 

[Dan]

Alot of the episodes from 2003 are missing the end credits but I did find one from April 2003 that shows Bailey credited as Sandy and another actor credited as the voice of the "Mole."

 

As far as Billy Kay, I don't believe he was ever on contract and he also had a bunch of other projects in 2002, including Halloween Resurrection so that could have factored into the decision, but we all know he wasn't a Conboy-type actor so his days would probably have been numbered either way. I do remember Kay's last episode was probably the Christmas 2002 show. 

[Contessa Donatella]

I so totally loved Billy Kay! Hated losing him. 

[Khan]

My hunch: Claire Labine wanted to put a period on everything related to San Cristobel with that story, but either Paul Rauch or MADD intervened, fearing what doing so would mean to the show (i.e., viewer defections, lower ratings, etc).  I can't remember who said it, but someone with insider knowledge intimated once that Labine, MADD and Rauch were often at odds over the direction of the show.  (I also heard that Labine often fell asleep during story conferences, but that's another post for another thread, lol).

I agree that Cassie, Edmund and Tammy had reason enough to be angry with Reva for turning off Richard's life support, but to me, even their motives felt like reaches (and again, why not just let us in on it sooner if it was going to be someone who was personally affected by Richard's death?). 

I thought it either had to be someone we knew but with a huge twist (example: Cassie blacking out and stalking her sister, perhaps under the influence of some alter ego) or it was someone whom we didn't know and had never heard of before, which would mean that Culliton/Taggart likely went into the story with no idea how it would end.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Khan

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, we know automatically that that is true because everything she pitched was shot down. When they don't want the writer to write anything they have in mind, there's clearly that kind of disagreement, in approach. And this happens a lot more than one might think. And I know that it is true & accurate because of where I got it.

[Mitch64]

Timing is off here a bit....Carmen went into a coma when Bill tackled her as she was pulling a gun (yet again) on Chele at the Bauer house...Carmen hit her head on a step and she was carted off and everyone was like....so do we order a pizza or go out,  no one gave a damn. That was on New Year's Eve.  Eddie and Liv worked quite nicely with the Spaulding's, but Collin's sexy Alex worked better with him then Marj's whatever the hell she was doing with Alex. (though she did quite well as Alex before Weston took over.)

 

I remember the eye popping he did all the time. He was cute but not interesting but I saw him on a commercial and he aged into a very handsome man. He had chemistry with one person, Pelphery and there was one scene where TP was on top of him in a hospital bed taunting him and thought the reveal would be that Sandy was Joanthon "experimented" which made sense as TP gave Jonathon a vibe where he would do anyone as long as he could manipulate them with sex. 

Taggert/Culliton always intended the stalker to be Jonathon but didn't Weston change that to make it Alex...(picking up from a real stalker who was caught..) to stop world class journalist Reva from discovering Gus was Alan's kid with that stupid nun...(and yes, Gus was supposed to be either Alan or Ed's kid with Rita.) which led to her drugging Alan (Mac n' Cheese Alan) which JLH admitted they made him Alan's kid as they liked the way RR and RPG kidded around with each other backstage...(huh???) and then led to Alex being a drug lord so they totally butchered Alex. 

Oh I remember the days where a Rassie fan got hit by a car crossing a street she was so upset about Richie dying, and then the Manny's sending LW a stuffed big bird doll..again, I lay it all on MADD's feet that she stuck to the formula to appease those fruitcakes.  

[dc11786]

I vaguely rememer the voice of the Mole being someone else. I don't think Weston figured out her direction for Sandy until October or so. As I recall, he was revealed as Jonathan in late October and then they had him doing the play with Tammy, Lizzie, and Joey. 

I had forgotten Kay was also in one of the "Halloween" films. 

I don't remember much of what Marah was doing during this time. I remember there was an attempt to build some animosity between Marah and Reva. Marah as the stalker under the circumstances you stated (either blacking out or some other psychological issue) might have been compelling especially if Jonathan was blamed first. The only issue is that Lindsey McKeon couldn't have handled that.

Carmen was trying to run off with Robbie on New Year's Eve because he was the only person who still loved her at that point so she appeared for a couple episodes under Conboy, but I imagine that was already in motion. Then again, Weston reversed other things. Now that I think about it, John Fiore's Vinnie Salerno basically replaced Carmen as the mob heavy even though he didn't have the connections to the canvas, though I do think Eden turned out to be one of his former mistresses. 

Yes, Bailey dated all his co-stars (Crystal Hunt, Kit Pacquin) but couldn't generate chemistry with anyone onscreen. I really wanted him and Tammy to work given the story setup, but I've never seen a chemistry test fail SOOOO badly. I still would have invested in Tammy and Sandy over Tammy and Jonathan. Sandy/Jonathan having a sexual backstory would have made sense. I remember Jonathan mounting Sandy in the hospital after Lizzie ran Sandy over (which was never really resolved) and thinking that Pelphrey was definitely leaning into the potential sexual backstory. 

@Mitch64 did you use to use the other handle of just Mitch? If so, I remember you had some wickedly delicious campy story suggestions involving Jonathan/Sandy and I think Jeffrey O'Neill. I tried finding them over the years, but cannot seem to locate them.

[Vee]

Yeah, I am pretty certain it was Wheeler/Kreizman who undid Sandy as Jonathan. I may be wrong but I don't think so. They were right to do it, it was so anticlimactic and he was such a lame character.

I always thought it was a huge mistake not trying to get Billy Kay back. He seemed poised for big things with L.I.E., etc. (with Brian Cox and a very young Paul Dano) but sort of vanished.

[~bl~]

The big bird doll thing happened at a GL luncheon….someone went and brought the voodoo doll against Laura Wright and was proud of it..showing it off to PAS this was when it was possible that Danny and Cassie would be a couple.

[dc11786]

Wheeler and Kriezman undid Sandy as Jonathan. Sandy appeared on screen in August, 2003. The anti-climatic reveal that Sandy was Jonathan came in late October, 2003, when Reva caught him stealing from the Lewis safe. If I recall, Sandy meandered a bit playing a supporting role in the younger set storyline (he was directing "Romeo & Juliet" which was like a C-story for the then younger set Joey, Tammy, and Lizzie (who were all recurring as I recall until a few week before John Conboy was bounced. It wasn't until they decided in April, 2004, that they were going to do a Shayne/Marina/Sandy. Kit Pacquin (the very brief Marina) was in the role at the time. I seem to recall Pacquin's Marina having a conversation with Olivia while Sandy was talking to Buzz. Sandy basically got all angsty wanting Marina, but it was pretty one-sided from what I recall. This played out until Shayne was written out in June (or early July), 2004.

Shayne was shipped off to Bosnia I believe to teach kids how to play baseball. It felt very much like they were resetting Shayne to be a more huminitarian/do-gooder type when he would return down the line. I think it was around this time that we were getting the previews of Kriezman's first stories so it was clear they were setting up Shayne as the good brother, not that he wasn't already, but more bland with Marty West in the role. I figured Shayne would be back within a year, but I was clearly wrong. I never thought Kay would come back, but he certainly was good in the role. 

Once Shayne was gone, I don't think they did much with Marina and Sandy, but I might be forgetting. Kriezman was headwriter in In late August, 2004, the bigger hints were being dropped about Sandy being an imposter. He was working for Reva at the time, I think, and Hawk Shayne popped up and suggested that he might not be who he claimed. I cannot recall the exact reasons. Anyway, the hints continued until Jonathan (calling himself JB) first appeared in September, who I believe was initially selling Lizzie a drug to get Joey Lupo into bed. It was the Lizzie/Joey "hookup" (they didn't have sex but Lizzie led Tammy and Joey to beleive they had had sex) that led to Phillip paying off Joey to leave town and for a depressed Tammy to decide to go trolling for sex. Initally, she propositioned Tony Santos before becoming prey for JB. 

Then in October, 2004, JB started taunting Sandy I think. It looked like JB was the one who was trying to run down Tammy with a car and Sandy jumped into the way to save her. This led to Sandy's coma and Reva learning that she couldn't be Sandy's mother. JB and Tammy were hanging around while Sandy was on life support. When he was finally able to speak, Sandy told the truth to Reva about Jonathan because Jonathan had made it clear his plan was to deflower Tammy to hurt Reva. This all happened (surprisingly) before November sweeps. 

[Soapsuds]

@Mitch64

Scott Bailey was in Beyond Salem. He does look good!  He was part of the sex house story and was tied up on a bed by Ciara with only his boxers on...LOL

[Mitch64]

Yes, I was just Mitch but when you had to be authenticated it would not take that handle so I had to add in a number. 

Marah as the stalker would have been great...she would have YEARS of resentment towards Reva disappearing and causing strife and trauma in their lives. She would be a daddy's girl that would see what Reva has done to turn Josh inside and out and I never accepted the Rauch/E & B plot where Marah all of a sudden turned on "Mommy Annie" when the [!@#$%^&*] hit the fan..I would have had her secretly understanding Reva pushing Annie over the edge.  But yea, McKeon couldn't act that out. 

I liked Jonathon and Tammy as a sicko dysfunctional thing....Tammy was always WAY too blond suburbany for a girl whose formative years were spent with her Mommy stripping so I could see her having a masochistic relationship with him out of lack of self esteem. But as soon as they were Twu Wuv I lost interest. In that scene Pelphery was definitely leaning into a sexual vibe deliberately trying to turn Sandathon on...I imagine it must have really freaked TPTB out.  Which leads to my plot, which I think was based on those tattoos that Jeffie, Sandy and Jonathon had that was never explained...I can't remember, maybe they were call boys with Jeffie as their pimp..Jonathon being part of a sexual scam operation with his daddy's look alike as the head of it would have been just the kind of stuff I think Pelphery would like to play out..I think he was bored with the generic bad boy with the heart of gold, so he starting chewing that damn scenery...Anyway .anything to really get the Brad Cole cows upset and get him off my screen. 

[Khan]

OMG, I remembered those tattoos, lol!

As I recall, Conboy/Weston often would introduce some random plot point that was forgotten almost as soon as it was mentioned.  Jonathan/JB came later, of course, but your mention of those tats, @Mitch64, brought this to mind.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Khan

[Contessa Donatella]

Wait. Just for clarification. You detested Tom Pelphrey?

Is there a canonical list of all the GL characters you couldn't stand? Buzz, Harley, all other Coopers, Dusay's Alex, TP's Jonathan, it's a start.