Guiding Light discussion thread

[dc11786]

Bruno came on in early May as I recall after Kit Paquin´s short stint (March-April). Initially, Bruno´s Marina was being setup in a triangle with West´s Shayne and Scott Bailey´s Sandy in the case of two brothers loving the same girl. It was Aubrey Dollar played most of the Shayne/Marina romance. When they brought Shayne on with Marty West, they pretty much implied that they would pair them right away even though Ben and Marina had been a thing for a bit and had a loyal following. 

Marty West and Aubrey Dollar had a love scene when Shayne was paralyzed where Dollar pulls down his shorts and you could see West´s backside. He wasn´t the only one. Daniel Cosgrove had a shower scene with Deborah Zoe´s Eden where you could see his bottom as well. This was all January - early March 2004 as I recall right around the time of the Janet Jackson incident at the Super Bowl. I think Mark Collier may have shown his butt on ¨As the World Turn" around the same time. 

I really enjoyed parts of Weston and Conboy´s ¨Guiding Light" while also acknowledging the insanity and harm that was ultimately done. I had always heard the complaints about watching Ben Reade destroyed, bu it never meant much to me because the Ben Reade I knew was making bets to steal Marah´s virginity and had been the target of a social climbing Marina (prior to them softening her and deciding Marina and Ben were going to be an actual couple worth rooting for). I will have to revisit 2002-2005 someday to see if I still have the same feelings about that period. I thought Carolyn Culliton and Millee Taggart did some strong work, but there was also a lot of poor decisions that made enjoying the other parts difficult. I guess the same could be said for Conboy and Weston. I enjoyed Olivia faking Emma´s death. I liked Edmund and Cassie with Edmund´s guilt over his role in all the pain he had caused Cassie. I thought the younger set was fun. I found the mystery involving Carolyn Carrouthers fine. I don´t think I would enjoy it as much today. In retrospect, I can see how disjointed it was, but I still have a fondness for some parts. 

[Mitch64]

I remember it from the late 70s..but I don't know if it was around longer. Its weird that they didn't keep Nancy and Chris set but the Dobson's seemed to hate anything Hughes so we rarely saw them at home.

 

Well, I have made my dislike of the Cooper's well known...(even making Frankie D's wife cry apparently...not that I tried or even knew she was reading online listserves back in the day) They were fine for what they were, the working class family with a dysfunctional parents...Nadine and Buzz both abandoned their kids and Frank and Harley had to create their own family. That was later dropped to be the Super Dooper Coopers the self-righteous family that could do no wrong under Wheeler/Kreizman.  I liked Harley as a tough girl, and then an everywoman kind character, but when she became Reva Part 2 that EVERY man fell in love with, and Ehlers lost a lot of her weight and became blond and shrill and sharp they made Harley unbearable. 

I actually remember the Beth/Alan thing and thinking it had potential.(like a lot or Kreizman's storylines but he could not follow through.) .Beth C made a good bitch and in this instance she had a reason (to protect her family from the dumbness that was Gus) so then as nonsexual partners who were stuck with each other was good. Throw in Alex finally putting  her foot down on Beth and the eventual return of Phillip and it would have been good. But they had to have them screw and fall in love which was so nasty.  I would have had Beth have a nonLoreli alter, who was actually the one who shot Phillip (an alter created by Bradley's rape..she would have been the one that really hit Blackburn with the oar in defense of Beth) and framed Alan. Alan marries her in jail thinking he could manipulate her to do his bidding but he does not count on the alter not being a push over.  

And Harley being voted as CEO defies any real world logic..it made the clone look realistic.  The stock holders would revolt, the stocks would drop, etc.  And Harley would NEVER have accepted that. When they brought that simpering Mandy Bruno in as Marina in a triangle with Alex no less (being made fun of for being "old") I couldn't watch any scene with that family, which means I couldn't watch the show.

 

[Contessa Donatella]

Oy vey y'all! The teens tunneling & falling into Danny & Michelle's apartment. AWFUL

Maryanne Carruthers HORRID! Nye was pitiful. And, they rewrote history of FIVE veteran male characters implying they had something to do with a murder & cover-up which they never did! 

Okay, I'll stop hyperventilating now. 

Thanks for the correction. It WAS Aubrey Dollar that I felt so sorry for & who was his scene partner in the butt shot. No idea why my fingers typed Mandy Bruno.

Yes, it's you! You're the first person I ran into with such hatred of Harley that it is still to this day seared into my forebrain. Hats off. 

[dc11786]

Your thoughts on Harley and the Coopers are pretty much how I felt. I didn´t think John Driscoll was a terrible actor, but the character was underdeveloped at best. Driscoll had auditioned for Jonathan and Wheeler was impressed so they decided to introduce Coop. If they were so hard up to get Driscoll, they should have put him on a holding contract (like they did with Michelle Ray Smith for whatever reason) until they could release Scott Bailey from his contract because they clearly had no use for his version of Sandy. I Though, I think at one point they were planning on revealing Sandy´s biological parents were characters with ties to the canvas. Honestly, Driscoll would have been lost as Sandy as well. The show only cared about Jonathan. And I say this as someone who liked Sandy/Scott Bailey (I was 17 and thought Bailey was hot lol). 

I thought the eminient domain story where Phillip tried to take Company was ok. The Ruth Karloff stuff was BAD. Then the investigation into Phillip´s murder just dragged and then they brought in Mallet and it was very clear where they were going. Kreizman had promise at the start, but by January, 2005, the writing was on the wall. With that said, I think the biggest mistake was how the show handled the budget in 2005 and nixed a bunch of people because Zimmer wouldn´t alter her contract. I say this with respect to Zimmer. I respect her decision, but I would have cut her or accepted that I was going to have to have a different type of show. I don´t think anyone benefitted from Kriezman and Wheeler trying to keep a large canvas of stories with a smaller contract cast and so many recurring veterans. By summer of 2005, I was pretty done with ¨Guiding Light.

Regarding the CEO story, I think Michael Dempsey came on as Alan-Michael around that time. There was a definite attempt to do something with the Spauldings but it all quickly came apart. I was hoping to return to regular viewing, but the quick shift in direction made it clear that the show had not learned from any of its mistakes. 

[Contessa Donatella]

I did not & do not respect that decision of Zimmer's. There were two dominant actors on the show at that time. KZ & Grant. Grant was unselfish. Zimmer was selfish. But I do agree with you that at that point I would have cut Zimmer loose. I was with GL till the bitter end. 

[SamandWillowFan]

I have only watched late 90s to the end of the show, but Ashlee and Coop were one of my favorite couples. Daytime rarely allows plus-sized women to have passionate romances.

[kalbir]

So which new family addition/expansion did more long-term damage, Lewis or Cooper?

The Lewis family was introduced in the Allen Potter/Douglas Marland era and they were clearly influenced by Dallas but it was in the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era that they were expanded and elevated to a main family.

The Cooper family was introduced in the Joe Willmore/Pamela Long era but expanded in the Robert Calhoun/Nancy Curlee era and elevated to a main family in the JFP/Nancy Curlee era.

Both families remained until the end but I find whenever there is any discussion about GL losing its way during the final 25 years its almost always pinpointed back to storylines involving one of these two families.

[dc11786]

Grant Alexander was gone in 2005.

Kim Zimmer´s point was a contract was agreed upon and it should be followed. This all played out around the time of the Daytime Emmys and most of the other nominees in her category ( I want to say Erika Slezak and Jeanne Cooper) agreed with her. I think Zimmerś point was that what was the point of a contract if it wasn´t going to be followed? Having had a similar issue occur many years later in my profession (education), I completely agree with Zimmer´s point. It was setting a precedent that has led to things like the entire cast of ¨Days of our Lives"being fired several years ago. 

Bradley Cole supposedly had an insane contract at the time too. Cole should have been cut loose as well since his character was such dead weight. 

[SamandWillowFan]

Also Josh Lewis was a very self-righteous character. He said awful things to Reva. He seemed to ashamed of himself for wanting a woman he considered to be a whore.

[Vee]

And she was right.

Ellen Wheeler doesn't get a pass for being an incompetent EP and bad businesswoman just because she was on Another World.

[Contessa Donatella]

Yes, that was his unselfishness. He took himself out of the equation for a time. 

I understood her point. However, I also understand the concept that if a show was in trouble through no fault of its own, that if it went to everyone & asked them all to take a x% cut for the good of the show, or company in other businesses, that that is a reasonable thing to do. Her point was strictly that she should not have to consider a change in salary until her work cycle was up. Not some lofty philosophical thing, just a calendar date. 

Everyone was under contract. Everyone was asked. Everything was equal. Everyone had work cycle calendar dates. Everyone but Kim agreed to it. 

In other industries such has been asked and granted, for the survival of the entity. No reason it should not have been asked. 

She made her choice. Some agree with her. Some disagree with her. Then, of course, she took it a step further & bellyached that it was covered in the press making her look bad. Of course it was covered in the press & the story told both sides. 

I agree that Cole should have been let loose. 

Nothing about EW as EP has doodly to do with her being an actress on AW or AMC or B&B or an Emmy winner or an Evil Twin or even her being a Director. Apples? Oranges? One thing has squat to do with the other. 

[Sapounopera]

In my eyes the Lewis family and the Reva obsession ruined GL for me.  Prior to them it was a very classy show and all of the sudden beloved characters were leaving and tacky, loud, immoral people were taking their place. They even turned the notorious Vanessa Chamberlain into a Sue Ellen mess. 

The Coopers were ok at first. Nadine was fun, Harley was a charismatic young girl (the first successful one since Beth), Frank was the typical 80s soap hunk, Buzz was Buzz. They overstayed their welcome and they morphed into something else, but the Lewis clan's impact was far more obvious. 

[Contessa Donatella]

To me it's Reva & her sphere of influence that was the monster that ate Chicago. 

Although I also contend that the two extra locations damaged the show beyond measure. The Island Principality & its sphere & the Santos mob family & its sphere. 

There's a meme that went around that said that the Bennifer wedding reset time to 2004 & given that what & how would you reset your show. My first item of business resetting GL would be that Danny would have been found to be a long-lost Bauer descendant & not actually a Santos. 

[dc11786]

Here´s the thing though. Was everyone really on board? Daniel Cosgrove and Laura Wright both left in the wake of that. Beth Chamerlain refused to accept a contract about the same time because it wasn´t lucrative enough. To me, Zimmer was well in right to say no. If that was a problem, Wheeler should have cut her. Reva wasn´t as important to the show in 2005. Shayne and Marah were gone. Jonathan was heavily featured but Jonathan´s maternal figure could have easily become his adopted aunt Olivia. Reva´s story in the summer of 2005 was her romance with Alfred/Nate?, Jonathan´s abusive foster father. You could have easily written out Reva through that story. 

Wheeler was wrong for keeping Zimmer and cutting the rest of the cast because it didn´t meet Wheeler´s vision of the show. Trying to produce a Marland-like canvas with multiple characters and stories on the very limited budget available was foolish. Personally, I still wonder what Gary Tomlin could have done on that show with Christopher Whitsell (or Lorraine Broderick or a Culliton) supporting David Kriezman in the writing department.

I don´t remember the press criticizing Wheeler for keeping Zimmer, which would have been more balanced coverage. Though, the soap press by that point was getting pretty polarizing. Wasn´t Nelson Branco running TVGuide Canada´s Soap Opera section? 

[GLATWT88]

@dc11786 @Donna L. Bridges 

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 at the tapes. Nowadays, shows almost hope you have tapes to generate some attention on social media. 

I enjoyed the younger scene around that time too, like Sandy, Tammy, Marina...

Jonathan didn't sit well with me. I know that he got a lot of recognition, but Tom Phelphry's acting and interpretation of the character was really obnoxious to me. Maybe that's what he was going for, but it was so manic at times.