I had no strong investment in the characters. I think with better writing Tony could have been more of an asset to the show, because I thought Jordi Vilasuso was a decent actor with strong charisma. I'll never understand why they had him try to rape Marah. The whole thing was disgustingly handled.

Oh I agree. That was the one scene that I didn't like Tony, but I blame the writers more than the character.

I'm not sure. If they were aging the character up, someone like Jennifer Hammon (the first Karen on PC) might have been OK.

Do you think that Shawn Batten or Susan Ward would've been good Michelle recasts?

Claire Labine was offered ATWT after GH but before OLTL but she was developing her own shows and decided not to do ATWT

Well she should've taken ATWT b/c her writing and the type of characters on that show were more suited to her strengths.

I think by the time they recast Michelle, Susan Ward had already gotten those awful fake breasts and moved into films.

Shawn Batten could have been decent.

Oh I agree. That was the one scene that I didn't like Tony, but I blame the writers more than the character.

I had no problem believing Tony would do something like that. I was only sorry seeing how many fans he seemed to have.

Tony Santos' only saving grace was his brother the priest, which was promptly squandered when Tony tried to rape Marah.

I don't care how "hot" PAS or JV were, both portrayed violent criminals. Neither should have been paired up (especially with legacy characters) until AFTER overcoming those disgusting violent tendencies.

I generally thought Danny was reformed, by modern soap standards, for most of his better years with Michelle. After Lenz left he started quitting and rejoining the mob, admittedly, but the only time I thought they pushed him as a sexy crime boss was that period with the Labines where he slept with Mary May.

The Tony/Marah stuff with the attempted rape was so awful because, among other reasons, it wasn't even treated as a serious crime. They spun it as Marah "empowering" herself by taking off her clothes and yelling for Tony to get it over with. I will never understand what they were doing. I don't know if Rauch had the horn for Lindsey McKeon, or what.

Edited January 20, 201511 yr by DRW50

Technically, that was Ed's house, the one he bought so Rita could keep up with the Jonses. Bert DID hang out by the pool in a muumuu ALOT, though. I think she was eyeing the garage apartment.

I disliked but tolerated the Santoses until they involved Bert's house in a thuggy mob shootout. After then, I wanted them all gone and would have considered Bauer-no-longer Michelle a necessary loss if it got rid of her in-laws (except Father Ray).

I guess this was right before Sonni left the show.. and right before Beth was revealed as alive. Shame Sonni left because I could have seen her and Blake feuding for years. I think Sonni was correct in telling Blake she was destroying her marriage all on her own given what she had gone through months before.

I didn't mind the San Cristobel stuff in the beginning. I liked Edmund and Richard but it just lasted too long. It felt like them and the Santos clan took over the show. IMO. And not in a good way. I always liked Edmund but they just overdid it with him coming and going and one minute he was misunderstood, the next he was almost like a mustache twirling villain. He had good chemistry with Beth and Cassie. They also shouldn't have kept Bradley Cole after Richard died.

In moderate doses, Carmen was fine and entertaining to me. I liked Ray. I didn't mind Tony, at times, but the writing just wasn't there for him.

The numerous recasts of Marah, Shayne, etc. didn't help, either. You couldn't get invested in them.

I agree about how Ben, Michelle and Bill were all basically like watching strangers with familiar names.

When Joie Lenz left they should have ended Manny or brought on a stronger Michelle. NSA was too matronly as Michelle, she aged too much and I just didn't care anymore at that point. And personally, I wasn't that big of a Paul Anthony Stewart fan and they seemed to lose interest in Danny. I did like the chemistry between Laura Wright and PAS (which is rare when on a new soap that two actors once paired together can recapture their chemistry, but they did).

I also agree that Claire was mostly wasted in her return. What a shame as there was a LOT of potential there.

I also didn't like losing Abby. Or Selena, to be honest.

I think the cast purging around 1997/1998 wasn't very good for the show. A lot of characters left.

The recasts of Cassie and Michelle fell completely flat to me. Nicole Forester actually wasn't a bad actress, IMO, but she shouldn't have been Cassie. Cassie should have just been written off.

Edited January 21, 201511 yr by KMan101

B&E's GL increasingly lost steam, and began to insult my intelligence (I was especially annoyed with Buzz being able to change paternity tests), but the show was watchable enough until they left and the Labines and Rauch (who clearly didn't get on) were in charge. The show immediately developed backbreaking tonal issues, with cringeworthy attempts at comedy intercut with cringeworthy, 1985-sitcom-esque attempts at social commentary, and drama that was far too serious and violent for the show, especially since they didn't treat it seriously enough. The whole "Tony roughs up Selena" story is one I'll never get. And they just about ruined Edmund for me.

I've always wondered how much of 1997 and the start of B&E was really written by the interim writers Victor Miller & Michael Conforti. IIRC, they wrote GL up until (almost) the Spaulding party and Reva's trial. It certainly explains how early-to-mid 1997 could have been so good and the rest of the B&E era was so terrible.

I still think the shootout at the Bauers was the single most disrespectful thing ever written by any GL writer. And that includes anything written by David Kriezman and his drunken frat-boy writing techniques. (Aside: Didn't he go to the writing staff at the WWE. If so, it suits him much better).

Quick thanks for the responses, everyone! Seems you're all alone in this, NBA.

I definitely need to explore GUIDING LIGHT more but wasn't sure if those 2000 episodes were a good era to sample. lol

If you want to explore more GL, here is a good place to start. The script of this scene should be framed and hung at in a museum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7NwMRR3Cc

^^^^^Ms. Garrett is marvelous in that episode. It pisses me off that she never gets the credit she deserves and never won an Emmy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmwNDYTCAnY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbuKdIgeJTI

Thanks. That's the start of the Trial of Jennifer Richards DVD set.

I forgot to say that if anyone wants to enjoy some fun scenes of Anna Stuart as Vanessa, those November episodes have them. I laughed when she was accidentally hitting Tony and Josh in the head with her feather boa. She really made Vanessa her own. I can see why P&G hired her for AW a year after this.

Thanks for posting those links to the November 1981 episodes, Carl. I was hoping that the YT user would eventually have some from late 1981 to post, especially with Alan running away from Springfield with Hope and Alan-Michael (and with Mike closing in on them).

I also wanted to mention how much I, too, am really enjoying seeing Anna Stuart as Vanessa!

Edited January 21, 201511 yr by zanereed

The Santos weren't so bad... they like everything else of that era had potential but was it was squandered as everything had to be BIG and all characters lost all subtlety. It could have been very interesting if they followed up with the orginal ideas of contrasting them with the law and order Bauers..but to make it worth a long term story the family should have been more shady then out right mobsters, with ties to organized crime...(for example..after Papa Santos dies Carmen made an effort to take them out of that world that is why they moved to the midwest, but old habits die hard especially if Carmen consistently failed in her attempts to enter SF society. The over riding mystery should have been Carmen...who would go on and on about what a great man Papa was, actually killed him in self defense. ) But they should have brought Mike in as her nemesis, paired her with Alan...( in her attempt to climb up out of the gutter, and I was so sick of RR with younger women...) and Alex was her main block to legitimate society and business. Carmen would hate Michele for killing her son (also seeing herself in Michelle and her husband in her thug of a son and all the guilt) but also want to use the Bauers to make a better life for her family. Alan is turned off by having someone actually as devious as he is..though not crazy like Annie..they end up actually being a good match which makes Alex on her guard..etc. The actress could have been good but they camped her out so much what could she do.

Also, it would have been interesting to contrast the Bauer family, who were immigrants but made it good, to a new immigrant family who aren't so good.

I thjnk Jordi could have worked (at first I laughed at him and thought of him as an underwear model) as he did have some acting..he tried, and he did have charisma, but we were all fed up with the Santos by then and Marah and he were a rerun. He would have been good as a cop or something who hated the family.

The Prancing Princes never worked for me but I did like Edmund..always thought he would be good as another character, say the real Spaulding heir who didn't actually die (I have no idea how to explain that) and it would be funny to see Phillip knocked off his golden boy throne.

Edited January 21, 201511 yr by Mitch