Y&R: Episodes discussion, week of September 21

[DRW50]

At the time I remember thinking, "We're really not supposed to root for the petty Newman brats, are we? Really?", especially since they devolved into nothing more than whiny town criers (Victor is innocent! Victor would never write those diary entries! We miss our daddy!) Then when they had Adam go to prison and beg forgiveness, which Victor would not do, contrasted with Victoria bowing down to her father and Victor LITERALLY patting her on the head, I realized that we truly were supposed to see them as the true children and Adam as worthless.

[Greg's GL]

Agreed. She has to high-tail it away from the TGVN.

Simma down now, Carl! :-)

I know somewhere deep deep deep down inside, you're a Miller fan boi. You just want to bust my chops! ;-)

But seriously. Controlling women? Don't you think that's taking it a bit too far? Whom has he "controlled"? Mac dumped Raul because she was in luuuurv with Billy. He didn't make her do that. Chloe stalked his ass in NYC and GC. How is that controlling her? He can't help it if his magic dong makes women go nuts (pun intended) ! :-) :-)

[DRW50]

When I say control, I mean he does not want a woman to be happy, unless he is the reason. He was upset with Mac for being with Raul. He's upset that Chloe isn't with him. He was upset at Jill and Cane being so close. Unless a woman does what he wants, he is more likely to try to bring them down, like this idiocy about suddenly not wanting to divorce Chloe, even though he just used her and cheated on her over and over during the time she actually wanted him.

[Cat]

This is something, I think, the Bells cannot understand. They pull this kind of ish on B&B, too. The Bells identify with the wealthy, patriarchal central family. They think the viewer is rooting for the Newmans/Forresters come hell or high water. What they do not always get is the charm of the outsider, a character that audience more readily identifies with. I mean, I love Stephanie Forrester and nobody grunts out an insult like TGVN. But the Tricias, the Phyllises (back in the day), the Brooke Logans, the Deacon Sharpes (on B&B ) , the Adams? We want to see these characters who ostensibly have more money than God be brought down a peg or two. I don't think either Bradley or Maria Arena Bell get that.

Obviously I'm talking about a battle of wits and wills here, not a battle of burned fetuses. Which Adam "wins," hands down.

[Cat]

IA with Greg, I don't think its about controlling women as it is wanting to sample every woman out there! Billy wants to lose himself in as many chicks as possible. He thinks this will make him feel adored. He thinks this will lift him from playing second fiddle to Cane and Jack and P3. He couldn't let Chloe go because until recently she worshipped and stalked his ass and he was worried that divorce would mean the end of all that. He needs at least two women chasing him to feel better about himself because, obviously, Jill doesn't cling to him like she does Cane, John is dead, Jack rejected him afer the Porking Sharon debacle and Kay already mentors the entire under-30 population of Genoa City.

This reminds me -- the Newmans, Abbotts and Chancellors are so isolated on their SL islands. Yesterday's episode really stood out when Jack realized that the Old Goat was going to pull through while Colleen was brain-dead. These guys need to interact. Billy and Vamptoria need to be going head-to-head in business. Ashley and Neil should be freakin business partners! Oh how I loved the way B&B wrote Ashley: funny, confident, inventive, hard-working, clever (except when she decided to date Ridge) and intensely alluring. No wonder Katherine Kelly Lang was so excited about Eileen joining the show.

[DRW50]

I know what you mean. I can almost see the pull with Stephanie, because we are not constantly reminded of how great she is. She is a control freak and has horrible mental problems and is called on that fairly often. She remains the center of her childrens' lives through sheer force of will. I've known people like that, we all have, I'm sure.

Victor is a different story, because I think they really do seem to want us to believe that he is a great guy and a great father and any problems his children have with him are ultimately their fault, because they can't handle him.

There's also no conflict between Victor and his children. They always have to regret doubting him, or in Adam's case, are plunged into insanity and patheticness if they dare to go against him.

Nick and Victoria have regressed to a shocking degree. Nick is truly just a hollow shell of a frat boy, a complete failure as a husband and a father and a man. And Victoria...I could write a book on her mental problems. She married an older man with a zipper problem, emotionally distant, secretive. She married her father. Then when the relationship with Brad soured, she jumped into a relationship with a man she barely knew, shades of Victor and Diane (he didn't even call Diane by her first name until after they got married). A younger man Victoria tried to keep under her thumb, and whom she began to tire of as soon as he got a mind of his own. That is again classic Victor. Yet, I don't think they are trying to make her like Victor, as she is generally so weak and irrelevant. I have no idea what they want to do with her.

[kalbir]

I could be totally off here, but Billy Miller's Billy reminds me alot of Terry Lester's Jack.

[alphanguy74]

Your'e killin me here!! LOL Poor Billy, every woman wants him, what's the guy to do? Bot, today was a REFRESHING break from the dark and drama. I was actually ENTERTAINED by Amber and her hijinks... I know many here will hate the Scoobies/Glo thing today, but for once I was in the mood for it, and thought it was funny. It's no different than when Jack Smith was writing, and Stafford donned that fat suit and ran around town as Sandra King with that atrocious southern accent. This kind of campy hijinks has always been a part of Y&R since the early 80's. And when Chapman swept into the bank at the end... I just had to chuckle to myself, shake my head... and say to myself.... "Chapman, you campy ass bitch! LOL" The REAL enjoyment was Nin and Jill sparring. Cast and Walton are ELECTRIC together, and I like Phillip playing the referee. Thom is much more relaxed now, I want to see him more. And Kay marching into the nail salon... CLASSIC.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Yes, you know it's bad when stupid and unnecessary characters like Amber and Gloria are somewhat fun, while the real essential characters are either being ruined or in a poorly plotted and poorly executed storylines done strictly for shock purposes.

Needless to say, today's show was filler, and not even funny camp for me. It's quite lame actually, but I'd take it over an unnecessary death of a legacy character that was done simply for shock and nothing else.

[MarkH]

"Amen"!

I'm always going to welcome these hijinks during times of darkness. I like my "Manson" family (I tend to think more "Munsters", actually) when they provide a counterpart to all this nonsense.

I do agree Thom will find his groove. Look at Doug Davidson. He was so rusty and disinterested, his "acting muscles" had atrophied. During those initial Patty reveal scenes, he was over-the-top. But now, he's PERFECT (IMO)...best actor on the show after Peter Bergman! Thom will get into it.

I only hope that we get a bona fide story with P3 and Chance. Right now it is all, as Jeanne said, "unnecessary".

[DRW50]

I am annoyed that this even had to be an all or nothing prospect for Thom Bierdz. He had not acted in 20 years, and then he returns and immediately gets very heavy material, far heavier than most of the longtime cast members get on a regular basis. This is rushed through in less than a month, only for him to disappear. And if/when Phillip leaves again, we will hear that they gave him a chance, and it failed because Thom wasn't good enough. Just as we heard from Branco that the pathetic "Ram" story was not working because of Yani Gellman, and if they would only recast Rafe, then his .5 minutes of airtime a month might be more valuable.

I have seen Josh Morrow and Eric Braeden give shockingly lazy performances with material many other actors would have turned into diamonds, yet they continue to be peddled as leading men. Bierdz is not a leading man, or even close to one. They should give him more of a chance and keep him around, even if only in a recurring capacity.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

While they're certainly the easiest part to watch this week, no way in hell do I think the Mansons are even an essential part of the show. These hijinks get very old after a while, and very repetitive. How many times are we going to watch the same things happening to these idiots that never learn?

When the same things get played for "comedic relief" over and over again, it gets old, and not amusing. I for one would have preferred some of the NEGLECTED cast getting a B or C storyline - you know, people like Lauren, that we haven't seen in ages or that hasn't gotten any significant material in years.

God, I just wish this show was balanced and better written overall. Will things ever change?

But I guess in a show that lacks emotional depth and a heart, these hijinks are a welcome distraction.

I don;t think they had a longterm plan when they brought back both Phillip II and Phillip IV (ugh, I still hate "Change"), hence why these characters have been neglected, isolated, and lacking in anything resembling development.

[DeeeDee]

Skye Dead

Sabrina Dead

David Dead

Walter Dead

Brad Dead

Colleen Dead

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Hope too.

and this is ALL under this one writing regime during the relatively short amount of time they've unfortunately been employed at this show.

[DeeeDee]

And Zapato!