But she didn't HAVE to go along with it. She could have found another way to get Daniel out of jail. She made a choice (a stupid one, as is the norm for Amber).

There's hope if you are a Chancellor fan. Most of the actors brought on under Bell's regime are connected to the Chancellors. In a way, Lily and Neil are also being connected to the Chancellors now that Jill and Katherine have forgiven Cane and Neil is running CI. Even the Scoobies are more connected to Katherine than their own families. This fall and winter, Katherine acted as surrogate grandmother to both Amber and Kevin.

I'm a Chancellor fan and I don't have that much hope. For all the characters on the show who currently have relations to the Chancellors, they share very few substantial scenes. Jill, who helped build the family in the first place, is all but irrelevant in any role but punching bag. And I'm tired of this new history which suggests Katherine is wonderful and Jill is horrible.

Edited July 28, 200916 yr by CarlD2

But she didn't HAVE to go along with it. She could have found another way to get Daniel out of jail. She made a choice (a stupid one, as is the norm for Amber).

That doesn't matter, in her mind, she didn't have a choice. Deacon was holding something over her and the only way he was going to let it go was if she gave into his sexual demands. She doesn't know of any other way to get Daniel out of prison. He had her under control both mentally and thus physically.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Exactly. He blackmailed her. How is that consensual? He used force, it just wasn't physical force.

Rape is like murder or kidnapper. Not all rapes are the same, not all murders are the same, not all kidnappings are the same. I have a lot more sympathy for a woman who murders her abusive husband than some punk who murders a store clerk in a robbery. Both instances are still murder though.

I am disturbed by the ignorance of some people. What Deacon did to Amber is rape. Think of Bosnia or Sudan. A lot of those rape victims went along with it because they were trying to protect the men in their family or to keep the rapists attention away from their daughters or younger sisters. They're still rape victims, even if they weren't physically putting up a fight. The fact that Hogan Sheffer is too evil/stupid to not understand that what EJ did to Sami and what Deacon did to Amber is rape is disturbing. The fact that this man is free to pen this twisted rape "fantasy" and even has some fans agreeing with his POV that this is not rape is horrifying. I was debating whether or not to drop for the good. Y&R_fan, congrats. You have has convinced me to drop the show from my DVR list.

My friends, I'll check in to read your posts because (most) of you are generally very smart, funny & just plain to read. As a woman though, I have to draw a line. This is it.

I think that to some male writers (and some women too but I have seen this more with male writers) there is something which is tantalizing about rape, there is something which they think they need to explain, like rape is in some way a myth. Or that there is a degree of rape. It reminds of Straw Dogs, which some interpreted to have rape scenes which Susan George "wanted" and some she "didn't want." To try to take the ultimate assault against a woman and turn it into something which can be justified or seen as consensual is a way to completely degrade a woman and reduce her to nothing. That is Hogan's forte as a writer.

I am disturbed by the ignorance of some people. What Deacon did to Amber is rape. Think of Bosnia or Sudan. A lot of those rape victims went along with it because they were trying to protect the men in their family or to keep the rapists attention away from their daughters or younger sisters.

Deacon wasn't threatening to rape, murder or physically harm any of Amber's friends or family members. That's the difference.

Wow, someone is actually saying it wasn't rape? Jesus, what have you been watching? That was RAPE.

Stuffed animals, rape, eye injecting, redeemed killers, art theft nonsense, brain-capacity loss, cancers... it's just too much to take all in one. It's been one bad thing after another. Nobody can suspend their disbelief that much.

Wow, someone is actually saying it wasn't rape? Jesus, what have you been watching? That was RAPE.

This is why I need to quit. It's obvious that there's something inherently evil about what Hogan is doing if he's getting soft-headed ignorant people to get all confused about what rape is. MAB, Barbara Bloom, Adrienne Frantz and Sean Kanan should be ashamed of themselves for going along with this storyline, knowing full well they're selling an "ambiguous" rape story.

Stuffed animals, rape, eye injecting, redeemed killers, art theft nonsense, brain-capacity loss, cancers... it's just too much to take all in one. It's been one bad thing after another. Nobody can suspend their disbelief that much.

Exactly.

In isolation,I thought today's eppy was a good one.

There are still major story/character problems,but I thought Monday showed the possibility that the problems could be fixed.

I thought TB was fine today.Loved the Nina flashback.What about the interaction b/w Phillip and the waiter and Nina's reaction?That was interesting.Were Phillip and the waiter flirting or was it Nina's interpretation?That was very true to life.

Why is Mac sleeping with Billy while he is still married?She should tell him to resolve his marriage problems before hitting the hay.That would also complicate the story and be in character for Mac.Mac and Billy got together too soon.Chloe/Billy should continue.Too many marriages are over too soon.

Bill Bell kept characters married for quite a while.

Tyra looked great today and her acting was fine.Again,the story could be salvaged if Neil admitted he's been making mistakes since Dru's death and Tyra is one of them.

Maybe Amber should press rape charges against Deacon and the whole issue could be brought to the fore.

I thought this was a good episode too.

This was my favorite part of the episode:

Esther: Jill, it's her birthday. We're having a lunch.

Kay: Can you stay?

Jill: Gee, no. Something just came up.

Nina: Oh, well, that's too bad. What will we do without Jill here?

Chloe: Well, it's not gonna be the same without you.

Jill: Maybe the two of you can compare notes on getting pregnant to snag rich husbands.

Chloe: (Scoffs)

Nina: Look who's talking. She could give a seminar.

1. I appreciated that they referenced Deacon's little trick with Bridget...though this whole rape thing saddens me.<HR>
2. I enjoyed P3 more today than I ever have during his whole return so far. I liked that he was ogling the waiter (and he came alive, a little, while doing so). I liked that he was scripted as showing a little sensitivity to Nina. I like that Nina, all sassy (above) is so warm and nurturing with P3. I like that she is trying to reunite father and son. I like that she seems to have been a good mom.<HR>
3. I liked that Billy and Chloe's sex was not a "momentous event", but a natural and mostly off-screen event.<HR>
4. I loved Clementine in her final scene with Billy Miller. He gets a little showy...and I liked how she grabbed his face and made him look at her. Those two are good together. CF is a great addition, and I'm enjoying her more everyday. I hope is is part of Patty Jane's eventual healing.<HR>
5. Meanwhile, I used to admire Michael Graziadei. But after his over-the-top screaming today...I'm thinking he may not be so great.<HR>
6. As for the Lily story...it felt like torture to me that Cane was not with her. Kristoff's eyes were quite red, so even though he wasn't crying many tears, he was either giving it his all, or he had good eyedrops. I loved that Tyra finally bought a clue about her real place in Neil's heart.

In isolation,I thought today's eppy was a good one.

I agree, and it also helped that excluding Amber/Daniel/Deacon, most of the ridiculous storylines that are going on right now weren't in today's episode. It was mainly about the Chancellor family dynamics and Chloe's free spirit. It wasn't a big episode and important stuff didn't happen in it, but it was a nice change of pace from the usual episodes that showcase the more outrageous, hated, and stupid storylines.

Rape is like murder or kidnapper. Not all rapes are the same, not all murders are the same, not all kidnappings are the same. I have a lot more sympathy for a woman who murders her abusive husband than some punk who murders a store clerk in a robbery. Both instances are still murder though.

I am disturbed by the ignorance of some people. What Deacon did to Amber is rape. Think of Bosnia or Sudan. A lot of those rape victims went along with it because they were trying to protect the men in their family or to keep the rapists attention away from their daughters or younger sisters. They're still rape victims, even if they weren't physically putting up a fight. The fact that Hogan Sheffer is too evil/stupid to not understand that what EJ did to Sami and what Deacon did to Amber is rape is disturbing. The fact that this man is free to pen this twisted rape "fantasy" and even has some fans agreeing with his POV that this is not rape is horrifying. I was debating whether or not to drop for the good. Y&R_fan, congrats. You have has convinced me to drop the show from my DVR list.

My friends, I'll check in to read your posts because (most) of you are generally very smart, funny & just plain to read. As a woman though, I have to draw a line. This is it.

You have the best rationale for why it is rape - a degree of consent was definitely chipped away from poor Amber so much so that she FELT as though she had to sleep with him. Sexual blackmail is vile for sure, can even be prosecuted as sexual battery in some states, but it is not rape.

And I've said it before, but when Nina got Phillip passed out drunk and sexed him up (as did Chloe - sort of), it was and is OK with most people. My Pilates instructor watches Y&R and she says she justs hates seeing a guy get sex from a girl who doesn't want him. And that makes a lot of sense - but it's not rape.

And this type of story has been done since Shakespeare's Measure for Measure where the acting governor blackmails an almost nun into having sex with him in order to save her brother who was sentenced to die. This s/l is a homage to Shakespeare (that hack!). LOL!

And I've never seen the boards talk so much about the Scoobies this much except to say how boring they are, so they aren't boring anymore at least? And for argument's sake, let's just say it was rape. Do you doubt for one second that Deacon will get his comeuppance? Give it a few weeks and Deacon could be eating trash next to Mary Jane, though you know that wouldn't be punishment for me! Hehe!

Edited July 28, 200916 yr by Cashton