Errol, while I respect your bunny suit qualm, I'm a little upset by the comparison between say, bunny suit, dog feces, the Joker, and having to play gay or quasi-gay. I mean, a lot of straight actors have played gay with none of this five-star ***DRAMA.*** What exactly is defaming him here?

My comments weren't in reference to the "gay" aspect of his storyline. It was in relation to what the the show is making him play out until his exit.

This is the spoiler thread, no?

Spill 'em please, sir.

Have you read the latest DC spoilers?

"Ashley tells Victor that Sabrina no longer intimidates her. When Adam hears this, he tries to make Ashley believe that the late Mrs. Newman has been haunting her. When Ashley uncovers 'Sabrina,' she's shocked to see Adam and falls down the stairs, knocking herself out!"

My comments weren't in reference to the "gay" aspect of his storyline. It was in relation to what the the show is making him play out until his exit.

See, that's the thing.

First, it really is more than gay. It is about driving a woman mental. It is possibly about killing her unborn child. It is about using Heather sexually...she says she loves him, he f*cks her...and then cackles behind her back. It truly is dark evil...it's getting really bad. I am not being naive here. I realize the simplest explanation is "he didn't want to kiss a dude"...but there really are other equally plausible explanations related to just how bad Adam is getting.

Second, to that end, Errol -- you can put an end to all of this if you just tell us what's ahead .

Fair enough, but whatever he had to do, it's part of the job when you sign a contract. You may feel differently about the gay/quasi-gay aspect, but it seems like everyone else wants to award the man special dispensation because, hey, it was against his beliefs. Well, too bad.

And no, we don't know that he didn't quit over the kiss - in fact, his letter all but confirmed that for me. And that's still wrong, AFAIC. Being upset at playing a villain on a soap (horrors!) was not what set him off and packing.

Edited May 27, 200916 yr by Vee

but it seems like everyone else wants to award the man special dispensation because, hey, it was against his beliefs.

He's a Young White Male.

They have it so hard.

Some thoughts...

I can't see how this guy's actions have offended you so much, it is getting really funny.

Your CouchGaySoap Activism is a joke and I really don't understand, how two or three posters are trying to become the stars of this thread. In case you haven't noticed, you don 't argue against an old-fashioned 19th century school teacher here. Every person who posted and asked you not to be so hateful is propably gay or gay-friendly and yet you act like you are the heroes who try to save the community. A perfect (not) story for Luke and Noah, but a JOKE as a conversation between adults.

I am curious to see if anyone who has been this offended by CE's words and actions offends the looks of an actress, or spreads vicious rumors about an actor in other threads. Isn't this hate as well?

Gay people don't hide in a hole together. In fact I can't talk about gay people in general, as I can't talk about people who drink milk in general. Can you??? Yes, a Gay Mafia exists, but only people who are worth it are a part of it, not every single loser Some people are doing more damage than good, because they have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

Now, I'm lost.

I did read the entire blog. He was vague. It proves nothing.

It proves he is hiding a lot!

One more thing I will say. Despite the Gay issue that is the center of this firestorm, Engine is expected to play some downright evil scenes in the coming weeks before Muhney takes over as Adam. If I were an actor, I don't know if I could do them.

Yes, you signed a contract and you are expected to do what the character is doing as written, but there are times you can't do it. If you were told that your character was going to eat dog poop, and they had you eat something that looked like poop and smelled like poop, but wasn't poop, to up the ante of the drama...I couldn't do it.

It's almost as if as an actor, you are expected to defame yourself in public for the benefit of others.

A few weeks ago on Ugly Betty, Daniel Meade wore a bunny suit in order to secure finances for Meade Publications. If I were Eric Mabius and I had to act like a successful business man, who is forced to wear a bunny suit and hop in front of a soundstage full of kids and co-workers, I couldn't do it. Nothing is worth that amount of humiliation.

What is this evil stuff he is to do?

Engen's statement is vague but if he is a closet homophobe, I get the sense that's he's not proud of that fact at all and wants to be a someone who is not. Life is a journey, and we all evolve. His "I have gay friends" shpiel indicates sympathy for gays but perhaps he has not yet developed empathy for gays. I believe that as an intelligent and well-intentioned person he eventually will. It appears that his limitation as an actor is that he feels he cannot play what he cannot empathize with.

I don't think it was about the kiss, or that was just the tipping point. I think it was about Adam's descent into sadism and how that began to eat at CE.

This question of sympathy vs. empathy goes back to his process as an actor. There are MANY processes that actors employ. Some actors can absolutely leave their characters on the set and forget it about when they get home. George Clooney & Brad Pitt are famous for joking around and having a good time during shoots. But some actors live with their characters. They obsess over them. Denzel Washington gave up pork and liquor to play Malcolm X. Daniel Day Lewis is infamous for becoming his characters 24/7. Any actor's process is not inherently good or bad. It's just your process. If CE were playing Adam for a film with a finite 6 week shoot, he may very well have been fine. Soaps are not like that though. You are playing the same person day in day out for and sometimes for years. Adam was becoming increasingly sadistic & demonic while at the same time, none of his victims, particularly Ashley, are displaying any heroic qualities. It's easy to see how CE could have felt the whole storyline was an exercise in sadism, akin to American Psycho (let's not forget all the firestorm that engendered). If CE's process is to live with his character, one can understand why it became too much for him.

So one could say, well obviously CE shouldn't play the part. Which is fine. One of the really irritating things about all of this is that CE was pulling it off as an actor even though he clearly thought he was not. But the REASON the part works so well (IMO) is because CE took it so damn personally. His attempt to ground Adam in some reality and not have him read as a DAYS character is why this version of Adam is so damn compelling. CE puts a lot of himself in his work, and perhaps too much, and perhaps he needs to learn how to balance that. All I know is that while CE has made mistakes as Adam, he has many great moments under his belt and he is currently acting his conflicted ass off. Can you name ONE great moment from Eva Marcille, Clementine Ford, Christel Khalil, Tammin Sursok, Vail Bloom (outside of her work with CE), in the last year? Even Greg Rikaart, normally amazing, was off in the chipmunk story. Even he couldn't find the truth in that. Judging by what is on my screen, I see an actor who put much more thought & effort into a role than many of peers put into theirs.

The whole I have gay friends is so overused and so cliche. His post on his blog is pure bullshit!!

My comments weren't in reference to the "gay" aspect of his storyline. It was in relation to what the the show is making him play out until his exit.

Again I say what things does he do??

First off, Elsa, thank you for once again assaulting my senses with an avatar that only makes me think of a brutalized drag queen showing off her scars for a court proceeding. Maybe that was how La Beachem was supposed to look there, I don't know, but it's always a real stunner.

Engen's comments are pretty pretentious and self-righteous, but they don't surprise me - it's the typical "these are my beliefs, I walk out with my head held high, fer the chirrun" spiel. My opinion on him is set, and I was ready to drop it there. But what surprises me now is the contortionist act that seems to be done to continue to defend the man. Because he was on Y&R? Because he's cute? Because it's a gay issue and not another social prejudice? Because it comes on the heels of the loathsome Perez Hilton practically molting to death over Miss California? I don't know. I haven't been hateful to the man. I called him an unprofessional homophobe, because that's what his words and actions have presented him as. I didn't attack his children or family, or his looks. But I also said that not every homophobe is a drunk wacko attacking guys and girls with bottles outside the gay bar - sometimes it's what you do in everyday life, or what you say. Maybe with Carrie Prejean, we've filled our 'outrage' quota for the quarter, I don't know. It's good to know you decided there is one, and everything else is just an ego grab or [!@#$%^&*] stirring. I'll just have to apply again in the fall.

Edited May 27, 200916 yr by Vee

Now, I'm lost.

First off, Elsa, thank you for once again assaulting my senses with an avatar that only makes me think of a brutalized drag queen showing off her scars for a court proceeding. Maybe that was how La Beachem was supposed to look there, I don't know, but it's always a real stunner.

Engen's comments are pretty pretentious and self-righteous, but they don't surprise me - it's the typical "these are my beliefs, I walk out with my head held high, fer the chirrun" spiel. My opinion on him is set, and I was ready to drop it there. But what surprises me now is the contortionist act that seems to be done to continue to defend the man. Because he was on Y&R? Because he's cute? Because it's a gay issue and not another social prejudice? Because it comes on the heels of the loathsome Perez Hilton practically molting to death over Miss California? I don't know. I haven't been hateful to the man. I called him an unprofessional homophobe, because that's what his words and actions have presented him as. I didn't attack his children or family, or his looks. But I also said that not every homophobe is a drunk wacko attacking guys and girls with bottles outside the gay bar - sometimes it's what you do in everyday life, or what you say. Maybe with Carrie Prejean, we've filled our 'outrage' quota for the quarter, I don't know. It's good to know you decided there is one, and everything else is just an ego grab or [!@#$%^&*] stirring. I'll just have to apply again in the fall.

Your remarks about my avatar are amazing. And they prove what I have been saying

This thread is officially the most read and most commented in the DTS: Spoiler Island History. The last thread to reach these numbers was in August 2006.

Again, not a Y&R viewer, but still unable to walk away from this this thread...

CE's statement is one of the more intentionally vague things I've read in a long time. But after re-reading it I, think the most likely scenario - not the only possible scenario, but the most likely one - is that he quit because he balked at having to kiss a guy on national tv. A same sex kiss is closer to "unprecedented" in daytime than anything else I expect to see on Y&R anytime soon, and after looking this guy up on YouTube to see what all of the fuss was about and watching him act out a scene in which he prepared to inject some sort of drug directly into his own eyes (apparently to fake blindness during a medical exam) I am hard pressed to think of what else he could be called upon to do as an actor that he "[doesn't] feel is right on many levels." Not to mention, "what we are willing to lie down and take" is an unfortunate choice of words for someone trying to convince people that he is not overly preoccupied with the thought of viewers across the country seeing him do something homoerotic.

And yes, I maintain that if this is the reason he quit, then it is a manifestation of homophobia - not a violent hate crime, not a legal injustice on par with Proposition 8, but just exactly what the word actually means, a reaction out of fear and discomfort with male-male sexuality that is irrational in proportion to the situation (i.e. giving up lucrative employment in a very bad economy in a way that could have legal consequences). All the "homosexual" friends in the world won't change that, and the idea of them lining up to vouch for him makes me think of that website blackpeopleloveus.com.

That said, if his account of what happened is true then I think the situation was handled in the best way possible, under the circumstances, by all parties. I don't think the viewers or the show would have been well served watching someone who was this uncomfortable with it playing out this story. There are more than enough actors in Hollywood who could convincingly seduce a guy and make him (and the audience) believe that the chance to be with him was worth doing just about anything. It sounds like the new actor already seems to be relishing the stuff they have him doing, and he's certainly got the more impressive resume. I hope the show did let CE out of the contract without the rancor that was implied in the original report. It would not have done any good for an actor who clearly did not sign on for this to be forced to play it under threat of lawsuit and blacklisting. And FWIW, I have no ill will toward him even if what I suspect is true. A lot of straight men have some homophobic tendencies (a lot of gay men have internalized homophobia, and possibly racist, sexist, and/or classist tendencies). The vast majority of people in any majority group (be it racial, ethnic, sexual, whatever) will never be forced to choose between their livelihood and their most deep-seeded prejudices. The worst I could say is that this was poetic justice, but I'm not sure I would even wish this on him.

That's not to say that I am suggesting that anyone feel sorry for him if he is a homophobe - he could have played this one role, gone home to his significant other and kid, left at the end of his contract without any controversy and gone on to play a lifetime of paying roles kissing castmates of the gender that he pleased. Any number of closeted gay actors throughout history would have been glad to have traded places with him, I am sure. But he's right that intolerance needs to be understood; if he was acting out of intolerance, maybe he will gain more understanding from all of this. Or maybe not. But in any case, prejudices themselves don't hurt people - acting on them is what hurts people. In his case, the only person he may have hurt is himself, so it's hard to hate the guy.

This thread is officially the most read and most commented in the DTS: Spoiler Island History. The last thread to reach these numbers was in August 2006.

And you didn't answer my question.

I meant no malice by mentioning your Stephanie Beachem avatar - it just wigs me out. But if this goes back to your aimless rambling about the "Gay Mafia," let me assure you, I am so far removed from any "gay mafia" or gay social power structure that it is hysterically sad. You have got the wrong queen on that score, and I'm not looking to go there either. I never claimed to speak for all gay people since clearly any number of gay guys in here think I'm being terrible to Mr. Engen, just terrible. All I speak for is myself.

And I don't buy that there is that much mystery to this, or that Engen objected to the manner of the storyline (Adam scamming Rafe, or whatever, by pretending to be gay, or cross-dressing or whatever else he does) or its portrayal of homosexuality rather than homosexuality itself. If that were the case, all Chris Engen had to do to win points with me was say something along the lines of "I did not want to be a part of a storyline in which I felt an important social issue would be trivialized and made the butt of a joke" - or something else appropriately vague so as not to spoil future story. That would've won favor with a lot of fans who think he's being homophobic - it would've said, no, I'm not, I was fine with kissing Yani Gellman, but I objected to the manner of the kiss and other developments therein which cast homosexuality in a negative light.

But Engen didn't do that when he could've, and when it might've saved a shred of his career for future work. Instead, he waxed philosophical about the nature of intolerance, its important, protective social qualities for each individual, and why his personal 'experience' of his own intolerance and limitation had to be respected instead of doing 'something.'

Edited May 27, 200916 yr by Vee